Ironwolf

I just saw your movie denying the existence of God. I was wondering if you had delved into Islam and Islamic theology before making the decision to become atheist. I have a Muslim friend who would probably enjoy talking to you about your beliefs. Of course he would try to present information to convince you of God’s reality according to the Islamic view, but I just thought if you were completely honest about searching and deciding against the existence of God, that you would at least see the differing viewpoints.

Regards.

Hello,

I see the claims of Islam to be equally absurd and unprovable to those of Christianity. A simple example of this is that Islam accepts the Old Testament and the many absurd and atrocious stories in it as true.

Robert

Have you studied Islamic theology in depth? I simply thought that to make the choice of atheism, one would first look at the other religions too. If you are still unconvinced, then you would be even stronger in your convictions of being atheist.

Of course, Islam accepts only parts of the Old Testament as true, but denies some of it as fabrications and corruptions as you say.

I am not very knowledgable, but my offer of access to my friend is still on the table, kindly let me know.

Thanks, but I have studied enough of Islam to know that it is fraught with the same levels of superstition and ignorance found in other “one true religions.” Even modern Muslims pick and choose what parts of the Qur’an they wish to follow.

Regards,

Robert

Actually, Islam doesn’t have an exclusive claim to Truth as Christianity and Judaism have, so it doesn’t look upon itself as the one true religion. Also, in general please don’t look at the actions and thoughts of Muslims to find out exactly what Islam teaches.

In any case, I respect you and leave the option open, should you ever choose to take it up. Thanks for your time in reading my messages and responding.

Regards.

Well, there again you would be arguing with other Muslims.

See http://thetruereligion.org/

Here is a quote from that site:

Amongst the most powerful and thought-provoking testimonies are those of former Christian priests and missionaries who have discovered the one true religion.

http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/index.php?category=25

Robert

Hi Robert, thanks for the message.

Again I urge you not to look at the thoughts of normal Muslims to find out exactly what Islam teaches. Instead, find scholarly literature, works from the great minds and thinkers of Islamic theology. While Islamic theology has no exclusive claim to Truth, out of the rank-and-file Muslims, probably 99% believe you have to believe in Muhammad as a prophet to go to Heaven, whereas no such thing exists in the Qur’an or Hadith. Therefore, again, do not look to normal Muslims, and I would instead point you in the direction of scholarly literature. The same problems of scholars and thinkers and learned people vs. normal rank-and-file practicers exists everywhere.

Does Ibn Warraq count as a scholar?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Warraq

Ibn Warraq may be a scholar (I have not read his work), but not what I was talking about. You wouldn’t go to a physician to find out about economic matters, just as you wouldn’t go to someone who is “an outspoken critic of Islam who has written extensively on what he views as the oppressive nature of Islam and religion in general” to find out about the Islamic views on God and other religious matters.

I am talking more about scholars like Murteza Mutahhari, Allamah Tabatabai, Muhammad Iqbal, Fazlur Rahman, and Ali Shariati. The great minds of Islamic philosophy and theology who have considerable works translated into English. To take the first example, just a few of Murteza Mutahhari’s works in English that relate to man, universe, and God:

• Fundamentals of Islamic thought : God, man, and the universe
• Man and Universe
• Understanding Islamic sciences : philosophy, theology, mysticism, morality, jurisprudence
• The human being and his destiny

In any case, I am not here to debate you personally, I am simply extending the hand to knowledge through offering access to a friend who is much more knowledgable than me.

Regards.

You use the example of going to a physician for advice on economics. But I think your reasoning is fallacious. Ibn Warraq is a scholar of Islam— he just isn’t a believer (although he was at one time.) By your reasoning, I should only take advice on the truth claims of Christianity from believing Christians, and not (for example) from Muslims, or scientists, or non-Christian historians. But I already understand that Muslims believe in Islam, whether they be laity, Imam, or scholar just as I know that Christians believe in Christianity whether they be laity, preacher or scholar. The question remains, what compelling evidence is there to believe in the truth claims of any religion? If your knowledgeable friend wants to write to me at ironwolf@dangerousgames.com and attempt to answer that, then I’ll be happy to listen as long as I am free to publish his answer and my rebuttal (if any) on my blog.

Regards,

Robert

I wouldn’t mind someone asking me about things on Christianity because I have no ill will towards Christianity nor am I anti-Christian, and therefore I would do the best of my ability to put forth an honest and informative answer and provide the Islamic viewpoint as well. Ibn Warraq seems to be dishonest in his exploration of Islam in that if you ask him the Islamic viewpoint on God, it is much more likely to be erroneous and attempting to discount and discredit Islam than something from an eminent scholar. Again I quote and instruct attention to the following points from the same Wikipedia article you provided:

“He is an outspoken critic of Islam who has written extensively on what he views as the oppressive nature of Islam and religion in general.”

“The name Ibn Warraq is a pseudonym that has traditionally been adopted by dissident authors throughout the history of Islam.”

His works include “Why I Am Not a Muslim” and “Leaving Islam: Apostates Speak Out”. His books on the Qur’an and Muhammad, I have just learned, are intensely anti-Islamic, and biased as well as driven more by dislike of Islam than by honest discovery and analysis.

You are correct in discounting my analogy, it is rather like asking a Nazi about Jews: one who is fundamentally opposed and has a history of dissidence will most likely not be a good source for honest information.

Unfortunately the person I know has recounted [sic] his offer after I told him about the last line of your response. First, he doesn’t write to anyone, he is contacted by others. But then, he does not grant requests for exchange to anyone who seems to have the slightest dishonesty or secret motive behind the discourse. Your request to blog surely seems a little disturbing, given that if you are genuinely interested in a dive into the Islamic realm, there would be no need to publish before the knowledge has come. Such tactics are used by those who have impure intentions, and for these reasons he wishes to give you time until you find it within yourself to have the freedom of self and the courage to take an honest dive.

In any case, may peace be upon you, and may the seekers of Truth be rewarded.

You seem to feel that since Ibn Warraq is biased against Islam, that is enough to discount his writings. That too is fallacious. Perhaps he has very good reasons for discounting Islam. You will never know unless you read what he has to say. Sometimes dissidents are right.

You say your friend does not write to anyone, but is contacted by others. Yet I did not seek him out— you wrote to me as his proxy. This puts a strange light on your statements about him.

I don’t know why my offer to blog a dialog about ultimate truth would be the least bit disturbing. Surely his arguments and evidence can withstand public scrutiny?

I do not “dive” into matters of the supernatural. I explore.

Regards,

Robert