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	<title>Comments on: Happy National Smoke Marijuana Day!</title>
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	<link>http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/299</link>
	<description>It's easy when you show them how.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: smithy321</title>
		<link>http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/299#comment-39139</link>
		<dc:creator>smithy321</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;This post has been removed: advertising&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;!--marijuana is so great...check this website about water bongs: water-bongs-glass-pipes.com--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This post has been removed: advertising</i></p>
<p><!--marijuana is so great...check this website about water bongs: water-bongs-glass-pipes.com--></p>
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		<title>By: Ironwolf</title>
		<link>http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/299#comment-18275</link>
		<dc:creator>Ironwolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/299#comment-18275</guid>
		<description>Drugs used in the name of medicine are not considered "pollutants." And some religions use mind-altering substances as sacraments. So whether or not there exists a perception of drugs as "body pollutants" is, I think, much more a matter of culture than you seem willing to grant. If you read about the process of demonization that marijuana and LSD (to quote two prominent examples) went through, I think you'll see that their current taboo status is much more the outcome of a successful smear campaign, than any anti-drug stigma inherent in religion.

Of course our country needs to have this debate, and not just change things by fiat. But just as with global warming, the facts mount and mount until only the conspiracy nuts doubt whether the War on Drugs should be ended.

One of the main fears of people who want to keep marijuana illegal is that if it becomes legal then there will be no argument left against keeping other drugs illegal— heroin for example. They may be right. But although my main posting mentioned marijuana prominently, I don't think my arguments apply only to marijuana. I believe that ultimately the decision of what to put into one's body should belong to the individual, not the government.

I have met many losers. Some of them use drugs, some don't. I don't think using drugs means you will definitely be a loser, but it certainly doesn't indicate a nascent winner to me, either.

However, we cannot outlaw losers. We cannot outlaw any factor that might contribute to (or be symptomatic of) being a loser. The argument that outlawing drugs will somehow reduce the number of losers in our society is, I think, missing the point: the number of losers will always outnumber the obvious winners in our society. Perhaps the winners who use drugs (or did at one time) would be winners no matter what. But turning losers into losers &lt;b&gt;and criminals&lt;/b&gt; hardly seems like a mature solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drugs used in the name of medicine are not considered &#8220;pollutants.&#8221; And some religions use mind-altering substances as sacraments. So whether or not there exists a perception of drugs as &#8220;body pollutants&#8221; is, I think, much more a matter of culture than you seem willing to grant. If you read about the process of demonization that marijuana and LSD (to quote two prominent examples) went through, I think you&#8217;ll see that their current taboo status is much more the outcome of a successful smear campaign, than any anti-drug stigma inherent in religion.</p>
<p>Of course our country needs to have this debate, and not just change things by fiat. But just as with global warming, the facts mount and mount until only the conspiracy nuts doubt whether the War on Drugs should be ended.</p>
<p>One of the main fears of people who want to keep marijuana illegal is that if it becomes legal then there will be no argument left against keeping other drugs illegal— heroin for example. They may be right. But although my main posting mentioned marijuana prominently, I don&#8217;t think my arguments apply only to marijuana. I believe that ultimately the decision of what to put into one&#8217;s body should belong to the individual, not the government.</p>
<p>I have met many losers. Some of them use drugs, some don&#8217;t. I don&#8217;t think using drugs means you will definitely be a loser, but it certainly doesn&#8217;t indicate a nascent winner to me, either.</p>
<p>However, we cannot outlaw losers. We cannot outlaw any factor that might contribute to (or be symptomatic of) being a loser. The argument that outlawing drugs will somehow reduce the number of losers in our society is, I think, missing the point: the number of losers will always outnumber the obvious winners in our society. Perhaps the winners who use drugs (or did at one time) would be winners no matter what. But turning losers into losers <b>and criminals</b> hardly seems like a mature solution.</p>
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		<title>By: elementalmuse</title>
		<link>http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/299#comment-18208</link>
		<dc:creator>elementalmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 04:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/299#comment-18208</guid>
		<description>I fully agree with almost every single point you bring to the table, Ironwolf.  However, it would serve everyone well to remember that the taboos surrounding drug use are not strictly driven by nor born of their illegal status.  Surely, growing up in a religious home, you are more than aware of the condemnation that goes along with polluting ones body.  Not to mention the sinful stigmas that are attached to those that would indulge in such activities.

Once more I'll state.  I think legalization would be much better than the current prohibition in this country.  I just think it is prudent, as with all major social changes, to think the entire thing through as much as is possible.  

Indignation towards the current failures of our government often leads to irrationally, unplanned reversal without truly examining the entire issue.  Most issues are not so cut and dried as a this way or that way solution set.

One other thing, I think bears noting about this presentation.  While I agree that marijuana is not a major threat to anyone's health or wellbeing, it is not the only drug in consideration here.  

There were a handful of notably successful people displayed as a supporting argument to the point that marijuana should be legalized.  I would like to ask this question:  "How many drug users do you deal with on a daily basis, or have you been closely connected to in your personal life?"  This is not challenge, only a simple curious question.

I (sadly) have known more than I feel anyone should.  Out of the lot, I can not claim that a single one is more than just scraping by in this world.  These people are good at heart and sadly misguided, as their only drive in this world is to be sure they know where their next high is coming from.  And I would wager heavily that the number of less than productive individuals greatly outnumbers the success stories used to uphold this argument.  I think there needs to be a better vehicle to uphold such statements.  Don't you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fully agree with almost every single point you bring to the table, Ironwolf.  However, it would serve everyone well to remember that the taboos surrounding drug use are not strictly driven by nor born of their illegal status.  Surely, growing up in a religious home, you are more than aware of the condemnation that goes along with polluting ones body.  Not to mention the sinful stigmas that are attached to those that would indulge in such activities.</p>
<p>Once more I&#8217;ll state.  I think legalization would be much better than the current prohibition in this country.  I just think it is prudent, as with all major social changes, to think the entire thing through as much as is possible.  </p>
<p>Indignation towards the current failures of our government often leads to irrationally, unplanned reversal without truly examining the entire issue.  Most issues are not so cut and dried as a this way or that way solution set.</p>
<p>One other thing, I think bears noting about this presentation.  While I agree that marijuana is not a major threat to anyone&#8217;s health or wellbeing, it is not the only drug in consideration here.  </p>
<p>There were a handful of notably successful people displayed as a supporting argument to the point that marijuana should be legalized.  I would like to ask this question:  &#8220;How many drug users do you deal with on a daily basis, or have you been closely connected to in your personal life?&#8221;  This is not challenge, only a simple curious question.</p>
<p>I (sadly) have known more than I feel anyone should.  Out of the lot, I can not claim that a single one is more than just scraping by in this world.  These people are good at heart and sadly misguided, as their only drive in this world is to be sure they know where their next high is coming from.  And I would wager heavily that the number of less than productive individuals greatly outnumbers the success stories used to uphold this argument.  I think there needs to be a better vehicle to uphold such statements.  Don&#8217;t you?</p>
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		<title>By: Ironwolf</title>
		<link>http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/299#comment-18175</link>
		<dc:creator>Ironwolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/299#comment-18175</guid>
		<description>Addiction is not good. However, outlawing drugs does not discourage addiction. Treatment and education are the solution. Legalization facilitates this by reducing societal taboos around getting help for one's addictions, and also helps researchers collect data that helps them understand the needs of addicts. This is already true of legal addictive substances such as alcohol and tobacco.

You say that legalization represents a "leap in the extreme opposite direction." It's hard to argue with that statement, because use and possession of a given substance is either legal, or it isn't. But I find it hard to believe that the current hodgepodge of legal and illegal substances as dictated by current U.S. law represents any kind of wise "middle ground."

Just as young people need education about sex, how to drive a car, and the hazards of tobacco and alcohol use (all of which are legal activities,) they also need education about drugs, legal or not. So it is not a matter of "just legalizing," but of treating drugs, and choices about whether to use them, as adult responsibilities.

With regard to the black market, even if drugs that are currently illegal became legal for adults, there would still be some people who provide them to minors, just as happens now with alcohol and tobacco. However, the black market we are concerned with does not consist primarily of friends and older relatives— it consists of organized, violent crime gangs who fulfill market demand by producing, transporting, and distributing drugs, and who do so in a shadow economy— highly profitable and completely off the tax rolls. Just as speakeasies went away with Prohibition, so these crime organizations would also collapse without their current government-granted monopoly on recreational drugs.

You are right that education is key. I believe that my receiving a thorough, yet non-hysterical drug education while still young— learning about the good, bad, and ugly of drug use— is probably &lt;em&gt;the&lt;/em&gt; primary factor that has kept me from experimenting. But I believe that even if a young person does end up using recreational drugs, they will be far better off with a solid education than with merely a wall of taboos against which to rebel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Addiction is not good. However, outlawing drugs does not discourage addiction. Treatment and education are the solution. Legalization facilitates this by reducing societal taboos around getting help for one&#8217;s addictions, and also helps researchers collect data that helps them understand the needs of addicts. This is already true of legal addictive substances such as alcohol and tobacco.</p>
<p>You say that legalization represents a &#8220;leap in the extreme opposite direction.&#8221; It&#8217;s hard to argue with that statement, because use and possession of a given substance is either legal, or it isn&#8217;t. But I find it hard to believe that the current hodgepodge of legal and illegal substances as dictated by current U.S. law represents any kind of wise &#8220;middle ground.&#8221;</p>
<p>Just as young people need education about sex, how to drive a car, and the hazards of tobacco and alcohol use (all of which are legal activities,) they also need education about drugs, legal or not. So it is not a matter of &#8220;just legalizing,&#8221; but of treating drugs, and choices about whether to use them, as adult responsibilities.</p>
<p>With regard to the black market, even if drugs that are currently illegal became legal for adults, there would still be some people who provide them to minors, just as happens now with alcohol and tobacco. However, the black market we are concerned with does not consist primarily of friends and older relatives— it consists of organized, violent crime gangs who fulfill market demand by producing, transporting, and distributing drugs, and who do so in a shadow economy— highly profitable and completely off the tax rolls. Just as speakeasies went away with Prohibition, so these crime organizations would also collapse without their current government-granted monopoly on recreational drugs.</p>
<p>You are right that education is key. I believe that my receiving a thorough, yet non-hysterical drug education while still young— learning about the good, bad, and ugly of drug use— is probably <em>the</em> primary factor that has kept me from experimenting. But I believe that even if a young person does end up using recreational drugs, they will be far better off with a solid education than with merely a wall of taboos against which to rebel.</p>
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		<title>By: elementalmuse</title>
		<link>http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/299#comment-18161</link>
		<dc:creator>elementalmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 03:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/299#comment-18161</guid>
		<description>Amazing!  Some very sound arguments.  I do have personal experience with use of illegal narcotics.  My personal struggle to climb out of the depths of addiction is one that you might hear from any of a thousand or more people just like me.  

I feel that legalizing drugs, which, in essence, would place restriction and regulations that would be beneficial, is still a sort of leap in the extreme opposite direction.  

From a financial standpoint, this country and a great many others would do nothing more than benefit.  Less money spent on worthless endeavors and a new cash crop for the government to latch its taxation claws into.  An immediately lower crime rate and a huge overall boon for the economy.
These are very good points.

However, just legalizing is not the only thing that would need to take place.  Real educational efforts would need to be created and implemented with regards to recreational drug use.  I say recreational because it is logical to assume that medically administered drug users will be under the direction and advice of a medical doctor.  

Also, I think it is fair to bring up the point that making something legal does not truly eliminate the black market aspect.  It will most certainly be diminished.  Yet, it’s worth noting that even though cigarettes and alcohol are legal, provided they are purchased by individuals that are of legal age, there is still a huge active black market out there providing those substances to under aged users.  Being the parent of three teenagers has brought me face to face with this reality.

I can't say I advocate the "War on Drugs" especially in its current modus operandi, but should drugs become legal, I feel its is important to recognize that protecting our children from this sort of potential personal abuse while they are still coming of age means the sale of said drugs should be heavily monitored, just as prescription drugs are.  

I know that essentially there is no perfect solution that will keep drugs out of the hands of children that may not have had benefit of education regarding their use.  So I do all I can to educate my children on what sorts of hazards there are involving drugs.  Education is the key, as in many things.  Yet, often the material we receive is so tainted by personal bias it is hard to get a clear picture of the reality we seek to clarify.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing!  Some very sound arguments.  I do have personal experience with use of illegal narcotics.  My personal struggle to climb out of the depths of addiction is one that you might hear from any of a thousand or more people just like me.  </p>
<p>I feel that legalizing drugs, which, in essence, would place restriction and regulations that would be beneficial, is still a sort of leap in the extreme opposite direction.  </p>
<p>From a financial standpoint, this country and a great many others would do nothing more than benefit.  Less money spent on worthless endeavors and a new cash crop for the government to latch its taxation claws into.  An immediately lower crime rate and a huge overall boon for the economy.<br />
These are very good points.</p>
<p>However, just legalizing is not the only thing that would need to take place.  Real educational efforts would need to be created and implemented with regards to recreational drug use.  I say recreational because it is logical to assume that medically administered drug users will be under the direction and advice of a medical doctor.  </p>
<p>Also, I think it is fair to bring up the point that making something legal does not truly eliminate the black market aspect.  It will most certainly be diminished.  Yet, it’s worth noting that even though cigarettes and alcohol are legal, provided they are purchased by individuals that are of legal age, there is still a huge active black market out there providing those substances to under aged users.  Being the parent of three teenagers has brought me face to face with this reality.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t say I advocate the &#8220;War on Drugs&#8221; especially in its current modus operandi, but should drugs become legal, I feel its is important to recognize that protecting our children from this sort of potential personal abuse while they are still coming of age means the sale of said drugs should be heavily monitored, just as prescription drugs are.  </p>
<p>I know that essentially there is no perfect solution that will keep drugs out of the hands of children that may not have had benefit of education regarding their use.  So I do all I can to educate my children on what sorts of hazards there are involving drugs.  Education is the key, as in many things.  Yet, often the material we receive is so tainted by personal bias it is hard to get a clear picture of the reality we seek to clarify.</p>
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