Comments on: Friends Church Sign of the Week http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/331 It's easy when you show them how. Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:29:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Ironwolf http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/331#comment-35907 Ironwolf Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:25:30 +0000 http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/331#comment-35907 Vicente, I accept your reference, and have removed the offending quote. Thank you! Vicente,

I accept your reference, and have removed the offending quote. Thank you!

]]> By: Vicente C. de Jesus http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/331#comment-35906 Vicente C. de Jesus Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:16:33 +0000 http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/331#comment-35906 The quote is a fabrication of Robert Green Ingersoll. It is found in his essay “Individuality.” This may be accessed <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/individuality.html" rel="nofollow">[here]</a>. It’s in the fourth paragraph of his essay: It is a blessed thing that in every age some one has had individuality enough and courage enough to stand by his own convictions, -- some one who had the grandeur to say his say. I believe it was Magellan who said, "The church says the earth is flat; but I have seen its shadow on the moon, and I have more confidence even in a shadow than in the church." On the prow of his ship were disobedience, defiance, scorn, and success. This was first pointed out, as far as I know, by Dr. Tom Gorski in his website “Knowing What Ain’t So” <a href="http://www.churchoffreethought.org/cgi-bin/contray/contray.cgi?DATA=&ID=000011010&GROUP=048" rel="nofollow">[here]</a>. Dr. Gorski is one of four founders of the The North Texas Church of Freethought. The quote is a fabrication of Robert Green Ingersoll. It is found in his essay “Individuality.” This may be accessed [here].

It’s in the fourth paragraph of his essay:

It is a blessed thing that in every age some one has had individuality enough and courage enough to stand by his own convictions, — some one who had the grandeur to say his say. I believe it was Magellan who said, “The church says the earth is flat; but I have seen its shadow on the moon, and I have more confidence even in a shadow than in the church.” On the prow of his ship were disobedience, defiance, scorn, and success.

This was first pointed out, as far as I know, by Dr. Tom Gorski in his website “Knowing What Ain’t So” [here]. Dr. Gorski is one of four founders of the The North Texas Church of Freethought.

]]> By: Ironwolf http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/331#comment-32873 Ironwolf Tue, 06 Nov 2007 02:21:13 +0000 http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/331#comment-32873 Vicente, You are repeating yourself, and apparently have not understood what I said. I am not asking you for a scholar that has cited the quote: I am asking you for a scholar who will repudiate it. Vicente,

You are repeating yourself, and apparently have not understood what I said. I am not asking you for a scholar that has cited the quote: I am asking you for a scholar who will repudiate it.

]]> By: Vicente C. de Jesus http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/331#comment-29814 Vicente C. de Jesus Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:53:00 +0000 http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/331#comment-29814 There is no source for Magellan's quote. Nowhere can you find such a remark in any of the eyewitness accounts, in any contemporary work. It is in fact a fabrication. No scholar can be named who has ever cited such a quote. There is no source for Magellan’s quote. Nowhere can you find such a remark in any of the eyewitness accounts, in any contemporary work. It is in fact a fabrication.

No scholar can be named who has ever cited such a quote.

]]> By: Ironwolf http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/331#comment-24345 Ironwolf Sat, 21 Jul 2007 03:49:57 +0000 http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/331#comment-24345 Vicente, Good question. I am not a Magellan scholar-- the quote is widely available on the Internet (google for it), but of course that is no sign of its authenticity. If you would like to refer me to a bona fide Magellan scholar (perhaps writing on the web?) who says this is not an authentic quote, I would be happy to remove it. Vicente,

Good question. I am not a Magellan scholar– the quote is widely available on the Internet (google for it), but of course that is no sign of its authenticity. If you would like to refer me to a bona fide Magellan scholar (perhaps writing on the web?) who says this is not an authentic quote, I would be happy to remove it.

]]> By: Vicente C. de Jesus http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/331#comment-24342 Vicente C. de Jesus Sat, 21 Jul 2007 03:09:10 +0000 http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/331#comment-24342 I'm wondering where you got the Magellan quote. I don't find it in any of the canon of Magellan historiography, not in Gines de Mafra's account, in Antonio Pigafetta's, Francisco Albo's, the Genoese Pilot's, the Leiden narrative, the anonymous Portuguese's, not in Magellan's own Last Will and Testament. It is not in Bishop de las Casas book either. Where then did it come from? I’m wondering where you got the Magellan quote. I don’t find it in any of the canon of Magellan historiography, not in Gines de Mafra’s account, in Antonio Pigafetta’s, Francisco Albo’s, the Genoese Pilot’s, the Leiden narrative, the anonymous Portuguese’s, not in Magellan’s own Last Will and Testament. It is not in Bishop de las Casas book either.

Where then did it come from?

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