Ron Weinland: Discussion Part 5
Welcome to the fifth Ron Weinland discussion thread!
Frequently Asked Questions
Q. What is this about?
A. Ron Weinland is either the One True Prophet of God, or just another false prophet. He’s getting a lot of attention right now as he says that the Great Tribulation spoken of in Revelation will start to hit us on April 17, 2008, and that America won’t even be able to put a new President into office next year. Ron Weinland preaches a theology closely derived from that taught by Herbert W. Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God (WCG) before their big merge with “orthodox” Christianity. See Part 1 for more information and links.
Q. Is Weinland a cult leader?
A. I reject the use of the term “cult” and I suggest you do too. It is most often used as an ad hominem attack on any religion one disapproves of, the result being to lower the quality of discourse. While some have compiled lists of traits that “cults” have, I have found that these can also usually be applied to much more popular and accepted sects, so to me this is also an unfruitful approach. These qualities can be used to identify sects that are more or less virulent at this time, but there is no objective “tipping point” where one sect deserves the epithet “cult” while another does not.
Q. Can I preach here?
A. No. Your comment will be deleted, and repeat offenders will be banned.
Q. What do you call preaching?
A. It’s a judgment call. This is about having a multi-way dialog, not you getting up in front of an audience and “letting us have it.” Posting a single scripture without comment is definitely preaching. The longer a comment goes without sounding like it’s really part of the conversation, the more likely I will judge it as sermonizing and remove it.
Q. You say you’re an atheist, but have you considered…?
A. Probably. E-mail me about it, but don’t bring it up in the thread: ironwolf@dangerousgames.com
March 2nd, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Steve,
Yes, well too bad about that.
March 2nd, 2008 at 2:26 pm
” Mark 10:31
But many who are First will be Last; and the Last First.”
I just wanted to be the first to post in Ron Weinland: Discussion Part 5…. or, is that last..? um..ok, whatever
March 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 pm
hi i havn’t posted in a while i have been listening to Ron for about 8 mos.
i just wanted to give my guess on who the other witness is (to be named later) at first i thought that it was his wife also. He is in a process to ordain many elders to help with the church when it becomes overwelmed with ppl seeking to find “the truth” about God and whats happening on earth, he had addressed the church that he would not be choosing women for this he stated that he was asked this so he wanted to make it clear. I have also thought it would be Johnny, but i would like to go off the deep end and say i don’t think it is him either because why wouldn’t he tell the church by now? So i am going to guess that it is someone from a splinter church that already knows that he is and he is just sitting back and waiting for something to happen so he can take much of the church with him to make the prophecy come true about the scattered church. Anyone else thought this might happen too, or am i a crack pot?
March 3rd, 2008 at 6:50 am
Does anyone know what Ron’s beliefs are on the rebuilding of the city of Babylon? Does he believe it actually the former site of ancient Babylon or does he believe it will be the resurrected Roman Empire? And also if anyone knows, what does he believe about the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem? Does he believe that it will be an actual structure or just a figure of speech?
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:00 am
Ron does believe his wife is the second witness…no question. Don’t know about his beliefs on Babylon, but I do know he doesn’t believe in the temple being rebuilt in Jerusalem. He believes the bible means that it is a “spiritual temple”.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:43 am
I believe everyone here must read this. Go to http://zionministry.com/Q&A/WCG%20and%20Armstrong.pdf. I think this is proof without a reasonable doubt that Weinland is a fake. The website that I found this on is http://www.zionministry.com. Boy, did this site open my eyes.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:58 am
I just tried the first link above and it won’t work. Go to http://www.zionministry.com and click on their literature link. If you go the the Q&A link, scroll down to the question about the WCG and Herbert Armstrong. A little lengthy but well worth the read.
Claire and anyone else who might be believing this man I challange you to visit this website and read the literature it has posted. It has the same beliefs that the WCG has (about the Sabbath and following God’s laws ) This site slapped me with the Truth! Please let me know what you think.
March 3rd, 2008 at 9:05 am
I just finished listening to Ron’s sermon from Saturday. (or Friday night, as he was in the Netherlands)
A couple of weeks ago I started to think and I stated that things are going to start spinning out of control for Ron. Based on this sermon, I think it’s starting.
He is really starting to push his book. Weinland Watch stated how he’s been instructing his followers to start using it and explaining things family members. Very strange. His sermons are becoming more like a book opening that you would listen to at Borders or Barnes & Noble.
This is a classic Worldwide Church of God tactic. Ron is doing whatever he can right now– his “prophecy in hindsight” is an old WWCG move in order to take credit for things that are happening in the world (or have happened in the past).– and it gets people to pretty much forget about the Bible. I remember folks that used to ram The US and Britain in Prophecy and Mystery of the Ages in my face and never bothered to try to line up Scripture with those books– because Armstrong pretty much told them they didn’t have to. And when I would ask them to show me in the Bible where this is located—they wouldn’t—they’d just accuse of me “not seeing it” because I was not “called into God’s Church.”
The old: “When you know something, you don’t need proof! You just know it!” Scary.
Ron is also really verbally pushing British-Israelism now in his sermons too.
I, too, am interested in seeing just how his members are going to go about circulating the “cards” he’s having printed up.
Thanks, Robert for letting me back in.
Jim Hagerty,
fka, jimmyhags, thetruthcommitee, Jimb and on one occasion, Larry Mondello.
March 3rd, 2008 at 9:28 am
Zion Ministry (quoted by Miss B.) is also a Christian Identity site. They’re refuting “prophecy” (at least where it disagrees with their own), but they appear to agree with BI. Just FYI.
Here’s the quote from the Mar. 1 sermon that caught my attention:
1:08:11-1:09:00
When Washington DC doesn’t exist anymore. When several port cities in the United States doesn’t exist anymore, and we have some of the things take place. Nuclear weapons that go off in some areas. You know, Katrina, there, crippled that part of the country. We have no comprehension what it’s going to be like when Chicago, New York, San Francisco, and Houston Texas, and Los Angeles, and different places like that, have nuclear weapons go off in them. And that’s before Germany does what it does. But then they step in. And they’re going to be the ones that come in and conquer. And that’s how we-Mr. Armstrong knew some very basic things here, that war was going to take place
It will be interesting to see if Weinland edits that part out, when he posts the sermon online.
Weinland is basically preaching from 1975 in Prophecy, adding his own timeline to it (and replacing the phrase “hydrogen bombs” with nuclear bombs.
March 3rd, 2008 at 10:20 am
Ironwolf,
I want you to know that I respect the warning you gave me, but I think in this post you may find that it is hard for me to resist. I will let you be the judge, if it is to off topic I understand. Thanks!
Ronald Weinland has stated that natural disasters (storms,earthquakes) will be increasing in number and intensity like, “birth pangs.” Here is a quote from the mouth of Secretary of Defense William Cohen at an April 1997 counterterrorism conference that may be of interest to some of you, “Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves. So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It’s real, and that’s the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that’s why this is so important.”
I will let you be the judge as to what this information may imply.
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:08 am
Jonathan,
Tell you what: if within 24 hours you can provide a URL for an authoritative source that William Cohen actually said that, I’ll let it stay. But googling “William Cohen” “electromagnetic waves” just gives me about 2000 hits on what appear to be purely conspiracy theorist sites that are echoing that attributon. If you can’t come up with anything authoritative, then the comment goes away. I want sources, not just “He said this.” This means authoritative transcripts, or reputable news outlets reporting on it. I’m also going to set the same standard for future comments you make of this kind. If you’re making scientific claims in your comments, I’ll want reputable scientific sources.
No sources = deletion.
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 am
Speaking of this Meredith (Iron Rod?) person…
On RW’s Interview page he claims that:
“As the leader of the Living Church of God, Roderick Meredith
is mentioned as one of many ministers who will die as a result
of the prophesied Fifth Thunder.”
Now this entirely (and eye poppingly) contradicts this bible verse:
1 John 4:20
“If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he
love God whom he hath not seen?”
So if Ronald is good at arithmetics I hope that he is able add these 2 things together… I’m all cool with God’s Justice and Vengeance and all that however Ronald leaves too many ’sane’ questions un-answered.
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 am
admiral11 Says:
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:00 am
Ron does believe his wife is the second witness…no question.
Tell me more, how can u say no question? I want you to provide me with something that tells you this, or i have questions! I have listened to every interview and every sermon for 8 mos., and have never heard him say or suggest this…the only thing that comes close is when he mentioned that there was a commercial that is going to air the same time the pope is in the usa, that has already been recorded, so someone knows who it is but i don’t feel he has gave it to the church or the world yet, but if you know something i don’t please tell me how you know.
March 3rd, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Here is the website where you can read the DoD news brief and Q&A that inculdes the quote I presented:
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674
The quote can be found in the last sentences of the answer part of the fourth set of Q&A. And Thanks for your honest skepticism, I try and rely on verifiable evidence, not just a bunch of crazies.
March 3rd, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Jonathan,
Thanks for that. I won’t analyze it here further, because that’s quite off topic, but I will say I remain quite skeptical of the ideas you’re presenting.
March 3rd, 2008 at 1:01 pm
dewayne….I know the man personally, and I have family members that are still in his church and know what is going on.
March 3rd, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Admiral11: Based on the Mar. 1 sermon, your family members may start more actively recruiting after Mar. 18th. Are you aware of any “cards” or other types of pamphleteering they are planning on doing after this date?
I personally think that this window (March 18th to April 17th) that Weinland may potentially have his membership evangelizing for him, may be a golden window of opportunity to counsel CoG-PKG members so they may effectively exit the organization before April 17th. Just something to think about. I wish all the best for your family members who are still in the church.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:03 pm
admiral, do your family members travel with him or are they listening to the same sermons i am? Where was the church before he started traveling, was it in cincinnati? Why are you not in the church anymore? Did you leave before he started saying he was the end time witness, or was that the factor in you deciding this man is crazy? I’m not trying to drill you and if anything I have asked offends you, i don’t mean to I am just trying to learn as much as I can. I would be lying if i said i don’t have my doubts, that is how i stumbled upon this site after all, but i am glad there are a few believers here too, so I know I am not alone. I will say this I feel that this church is the closest to God’s true plan for mankind, so even if Ron is wrong, I will still believe allot of things that this church has taught me in 8 months than the baptist church taught me in 15 years.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:18 pm
ironwolf,
i wanted to ask you a question about the church your family goes to. What if any are the diff between that church and pkg besides the fact that Ron is the end time witness or claims to be. What I’m trying to ask is, do they have sabbath worship, believe in the trinity, follow holy days, what is it that Ron says is diff why is it not the church God is working with right now? I would like to ask a big “what if” question, if the US is nuked in April and the 2 t.v. pastors are killed, do you think your wife and that church would become a part of the pkg, or would they think this has been a long time coming and start preparing for Jesus without Ron and the pkg?
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Dewayne,
Go back and read the information in Ironwolf’s 2nd blog regarding the information “T” presented. The source your looking for is in an audio sermon ? God?s Prophecy, part 2) which can be located at http://www.rweinland.com/sermons/.
Listen to this sermon and approximately 55 minutes into this sermon Ron gives information indicating that his Wife is the only person who has witnesses with him since 1994, the apostasy of the WCG as he interprets this spiritual division. He does not literally say that his “Wife” is the 2nd witness, but does imply that it is her. He also gives a warning to all his listening audience, like a “curse,” if any will spill the beans before the appointed time. I will paraphrase what Weinland simply states as “I would not want to be in your shoes, if you are the one sharing this information.” He is simply intimidating his followers. Is this a death sentence, before the return of Christ? Interpreting what Weinland said is anyones guess. If he did not want this to get out he should have edited the sermon or not have said and recorded these things.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Dewayne,
As I have said elsewhere, my wife still attends a congregation of the WCG, and I don’t attend anywhere, much less believe Christian metaphysical propositions. They still have services on Saturday, but many WCG congregations have switched to Sunday— it’s really left up to the individual congregations now. As far as I can tell, a sense of shared history is about all modern WCGers have in common with the old WCG— they are doctrinally pretty much indistinguishable from most of the rest of mainstream protestantism.
End-times prophecy really doesn’t come up in the WCG any more— that’s been left to the splinters, including COG-PKG. Neither my wife nor I watch TV, so I doubt we’d even notice that some TV pastors croaked unless someone like you told us. We’d certainly notice a nuclear bomb— who wouldn’t? I mean, even I noticed the nuclear bomb that went off on “24″, and I don’t even watch the damn show!
If any part of the U.S. gets nuked in April, I’d be surprised. If I survive. But notice that even a nuke going off on a fictional show like “24″ didn’t precipitate a storyline about the return of Jesus. (To my knowledge, anyway; like I say, I don’t watch the show.) Neither do I see any reason to think that any particular acts of terrorism on U.S. soil are likely to precipitate that particular story line in reality— much more evidence will be needed to make me a believer. (And it always irritates me how believers at this point in the conversation usually snigger, “Don’t worry, you’ll have your evidence!”)
Believe it or not, I think the U.S. would survive the (laughably unlikely) scenario of pocket nukes going off simultaneously in several large cities. It would hurt, to be sure, but we are simply too sprawling and decentralized for even that to debilitate us.
March 3rd, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Ive been listening to Rons sermons of late too,and there is definitely a feel of intimidation about them towards his followers,although at the same time he tries to humble himself which is kinda weird…Love to know whats going on in that head of his…..Is he the real deal?..I feel a lot of what he says about Christianity seems spot on,but at the same time even though he says he,s just a mortal messenger,how he comes across feels different..i,d like to hear other peoples opinions of his recent sermons….
March 3rd, 2008 at 10:53 pm
In Weinland’s sermons at the end of February concerning the last chapter of his book there were a couple interesting comments that Weinland had made. It is apparent that he is still wrestling with the job description that God gave him concerning his role as an end-time witness. He implied that he felt like quiting. I guess this might be getting on his consciousness. April coming quickly. I did hear Weinland say that God will be restoring the earth back to it original condition prior to Noah’s flood. If this is the case, than longevity will return to those who live in the Millennium. He said there would be more detail about his at a later time. I guess during the Tribulation. Weinland did repremand a lady for interrupting his sermon and said he knew that she was new and would talk to her after the service. He appeared to handle himself appropriately on the surface, but was he boiling inside? I wonder what his blood pressure is like. I can’t imagine what it must be like to be an end-time witness if this is the real deal. That would be like knowing the timing of your own death! What do you think could be going through Weinland head? Does he think about running and hiding …like Jonah? God would find him. I can’t imagine having this kind of job.
March 4th, 2008 at 7:35 am
If RW keeps going on like this he’s going to have another heart attack. It was 2-3yrs ago that he had a heart attack and then about a year ago I believe he had a stint put in. God’s end time witness seems a little fragile.
Dewayne…..my family has been in it for a long time. That is really the only reason I was involved. I think they are in Toledo, OH. The difference between Weinland and the other splinters, I think, is something to do with Armstrong. I’ve heard RW say that Rod Meredith’s greatest downfall is that he acknowledges that Armstrong was a great teacher, but doesn’t say that he was the Elijah to come. Which seems kind of strange that RW questions Merideth when he was one of the original students at AC, broadcasted on Armstrong’s radio program, and worked closely with Armstrong for like 50yrs.
March 4th, 2008 at 8:14 am
Ironwolf,
Thanks for the forum…I have read both Weinland books, heard his sermons and listened to interviews…I must say, anyone looking for “answers” (like myself) could very easily believe in his end time prophecies and him being being one of the end time prophets.
I was introduced to Weinland through a friend sending me his 2 “free” books, which she discovered on the internet. I must say, my friend “believes”. At the time, we were heavily engaged in discussions regarding the self destructive path this old world is going down. We both felt (feel) if we continue (globally) we may reach the “prophecized end time.” (my friend believes it “religiously” and I by means of logic).
Our many discussions are not unlike those I have read here and am intrigued and engaged by most of it.
Although my intellect dictates 99% of my perception of my reality of the world, there is still that 1% that poses the question: What if?…What if? I suppose time will tell.
March 4th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Hi Robbie
There should be more than 1% of your mind that is questioning What if?. I suppose you are referring to “What if this is true? ” Whether we like it or not, we are at an unprecedented time in history. God has a 7000 year plan for mankind. We are coming to the end of the 6000 year time period that man was given to govern himself. God has left us to our own devices for 6000 years and look at what we have done to the planet. Look how sick and against God this world is.
As things stand now, most of the prophecies in the Book of Revelation have been fulfilled. We are waiting for the opening of The Seventh Seal which is physicl destruction upon the earth. The other six seals were spiritual and happened within God’s True Church which has existed since Pentecost 31 AD. This is not the Catholic church or any other Christian organisation that splintered off her, but a church that has remained small throughout time and unknown in the world. God has only worked with a VERY small amount of people over the last 6000 years, but the time that we are living in now is the time that God is going to manifest Himself to mankind through the opening of the Seventh Seal.
I know that nothing I can say here can change anybody’s mind. God is the only one that can make you see his Truth and who is speaking it. I know that in time God will open up peoples minds more and more to see what is true. The devastation that is coming is unprecedented, but many will be delivered through The Great Tribulation if they repent and turns to God’s way of life. (The Ten Commandments and The Holy Days)That’s why the books have been written. God knows we need PROOF and we’re going to get it when everything recorded in those two books comes to pass, starting in April this year.
The personal attacks against Ronald Weinland here are unfair and uncalled for. He states very clearly in his sermons that this is not a role he would have chosen and compares himself to Jonah. I guess what I’m trying to say is, that you guys should stop trying to shoot the messenger. I can understand people being afraid of the destruction etc. But all of it will be man made. The nuclear weapons are set of by us - mankind. God is not making any of these things happen, but allowing it. In the end it is Him who stop us from completely annihilating ourselves because all life would be erased from the planet if God didnt intervene.
Whether we like it or not, this is where we are, waiting for the opening of The Seventh Seal. All of the other prophecies preceding that are fulfilled. I don’t know why you guys don’t just take a break from here and wait to see the proof.
Ironwolf, I hope you don’t erase this for being too “preachy” I think you know me well enough to know I am only speaking what i have recently learned and giving people the other side of the argument. I’m gonna be cheeky again too. For anyone who believes what is written in the two books by Ronald Weinland to check out my myspace http://www.myspace.com/ronaldweinland. A few other believers have gotten in contact from here and other blogs. Sorry for pluggin Ironwolf.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:17 am
For someone who’s taken on the role of Jonah, Weinland certainly seems to be living a high-class lifestyle, thanks to all those tithes.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Claire UK,
Now where else have I seen hubris like this recently? Hmm…. Oh, yes! From another ex-WCGer:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=L7uBxCEujIM
March 4th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Ah, yes, “Overseer” Yisrayl Hawkins. According to rumour, myth, and/or possible legend, he wasn’t even a member of the ministry during the splits! A paid member, that is. One source said he may have been an elder, but it was a non-CoG source (A&E special on The House of Yahweh) and so did not elaborate on a distinction that would have been of interest to ex-CoG members only.
Hawkins is a good example of just how much more extremist Weinland could be; at least CoG-PKG members don’t walk around wearing masks and veils, as the women in Hawkins’ compound do. (Satan, in Hawkins’ mytheology, is/was female, thus all women must be covered.)
One presumes Weinland does not take it to that extreme because then the tithes-payers would dry up, and the world might chance to look more unfavourably upon one of the two witnesses than it already does.
“Most of the prophecies of the book of Revelation have already been fulfilled.” Now, see, here you and I are in agreement ClaireUK. I think it is possible that all of the prophecies of the book of Revelation have been fulfilled, although I’m not sure whether I believe the theory completely myself.
There was this temple see, in Jerusalem, around 70AD……The book of Revelation was fulfilled a few millennia ago, according to some believers. There are a few iffy verses, which for over three-quarters of a century, Armstrongists have been using to promote a “dualism” theology of the book of Rev. and scare the bejeebus out of their followers for over seventy-five years.
Anyone considering buying into Weinland’s predictions have to take into account the fact that Weinland is relying upon the texts and speculations of a man who preached that “the end was nigh” within “ten to fifteen years”, within “this generation”, over seventy-five years ago.
A little research into history (real history, not BI history) offers up a few more “proofs” on the book of Revelation being a retelling of the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem (well after the fact) in 70AD. Now, that said, this theory relies on Josephus, which is the problem with the theory (in my opinion).
A little research into the unbiased history of the Church of God movement under Herbert W. Armstrong, and there is no way Weinland’s predictions can hold up under scrutiny, given the original source material.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Another eye-opening video on youtube is KScribe’s “1975 in Prophecy”, even though it has a christian bias at the end.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Oops sorry that was a bad link:-
http://www.myspace.com/ronaldweinland
March 4th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
I need some feedback on this question of mine:
I am fairly well versed on the workings of the old WWCG and Armstrongism, including British-Israelism. However, Ron Weinland, to me, is beginning to speak wiht a fork tongue.
Toward the end of the last week’s sermon, he reads from his book then starts “explaining” the difference between Israel and Judah.
I will start by saying that Ronald is beginning to sound like a Nazi. Secondly, he claims that the nation of “Israel” has lost its identity because it “stopped keeping the Sabbath and Holy Days.” He THEN goes on to say that Judah– the TRUE Jewish nation has always kept God’s Sabbath and Holy Days so God has “allowed” it to keep its identity, so that every nation knows who the true Jewish people are.
Earlier on in his sermon he repeatedly slammed the Jewish faith for corrupting the world.
Whether one is a Christian or not, it’s clear that God certainly doesn’t speak with a fork tongue. But here, if you are going to believe Ronald Weinland, then you must believe that God is ANGRY at the Jews, but has spared them the stripping of their identity because they have always kept the Sabbath–although, according to Weinland, have “CORRUPTED” it.
After listening to this last sermon, I can’t follow what Ron actually believes. I do know that he’s way off on the Israel thing. His history is distorted and he seems to not be thinking clearly.
And I can’t help but to continue to believe that Ronald Weinland–100%, without a doubt, has NO clue about the New Testament. (I guess that should not be a surprise, since his OT theology is way off and his view of Jesus comes straight out of Armstrongism.)
Anyone else starting to notice Ron slipping a bit?
March 4th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Robert, I left 2 responses…don’t see them..I don’t know what I am doing wrong…please advise.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Ironwolf– please pardon the second post.
Question: How many Weinland believers in here REALLY know what British-Israelism is?
March 4th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Hey Ironwolf,
I noticed my post got deleted off and that is fine. A bit outside of the topic base here. Next time I will email you what I find. I bet you found it somewhat interesting though.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Robbi,
I’m not sure what you could be doing wrong… the comment I’m replying to seems to have come through fine. I always recommend that if you are going to put significant effort into a comment, then you should do it in an external text editor and then paste it into the comments field. That way if something goes wrong, you’ll still have a copy.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Peter,
Thanks. When in doubt, e-mail is always a good way of checking.
March 4th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
“Nov 24, 2007 Year Nearly Over” (Posts on website)
“The world economy is shaking/quaking worse each day and is coming more and more to the forefront of news commentary. Next year will see the Dollar collapse and the Euro become the new strength for the world’s economy. The thunders of Revelation are now going to begin to increase in intensity and frequency. Beginning in February, those thunders will increase dramatically, and by April this world will begin to be shaken to its foundations.”
What “thunders” have in increased dramatically in Feb? What world events have happened that he is talking about happening in Feb - does anyone know?
March 4th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
What “thunders” have in increased dramatically in Feb? What world events have happened that he is talking about happening in Feb - does anyone know?
Exactly! (good find CallieMae!)
“Nov 24, 2007 Year Nearly Over:”
Next year will see the Dollar collapse and the Euro become the new strength for the world’s economy.
Wait a sec here. Does the dollar collapse BEFORE or AFTER the nuclear war??? He is not saying the dollar weakening but collapsing! No collapse yet…just slightly below compared to the Canadian currency.
If there is a nuke war then…yeah I suppose the dollar would collapse……..
Let me guess he is not going to explain this…again.
The happenings ’spiritually’ cards are running out… and the clock keeps on ticking.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Exactly CallieMae…Even though the story seems real enough to happen,nothing on a more significant scale has happened since February..nothing appears to be getting louder to me either,apart from Rons rhetoric…One person i do believe believes this fully though,and thats Ron himself..Thats why so many people are “sucked in”..also the script would make a great Spielberg movie…Claire..do you believe this because you want to believe it?..i know his Christian teachings seem spot on in a lot of ways,but stop and think for a moment..Could Ron be wrong?…we shall see
March 5th, 2008 at 5:51 am
Apparently now the CoG-PKG is in overdrive trying to push members of “the scattered church” back into Weinland’s fold (and their money back into his pockets one presumes):
“Our purpose is to support, educate, and warn the scattered Church that was formerly united in the Worldwide Church of God.”
They have changed this to the front page of the site.
As for February, the thunders are only supposed to “get louder”. In other words, whatever happens, it can be attributed to the thunders.
According to Weinland (don’t have the location of the quote on me at the moment–think it’s in the book), Canada’s going to go down the tubes with the US because it’s “her[America's] prophetic brother”.
Unfortunately for Weinland, the Canadian dollar is getting stronger, not weaker, unemployment is down, and the economy is looking actually bullish north of the border.
Weinland’s explanation for this? Oh right. He doesn’t have one.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:37 am
As I have done before (with regards to my confusion between the seven seals and the seven thunders in Weinland’s theology), I must state that I was in error with regards to the remark below, made here, to wit:
“As for Weinland’s predictions being accurate in hindsight, that’s a tactic straight from the LCG playbook; Meredith was just vague enough that his apologist (who calls himself a “doctor”, but his degree is from the non-accredited and now defunct AC) now claims Meredith predicted 9/11.”
Meredith’s tactics of prophecy-in-hindsight notwithstanding, apparently his apologist does indeed have a PhD, and did not attend Ambassador College.
Interesting to note, however, that Robert Thiel, author of the deceptively titled Church of God News is reading this discussion board.
My apologies and sincere retraction tendered to Robert Thiel. I do not believe that I have stated any similar sentiments on the WW blog, if I have, I will retract those immediately. Thank you for the clarification.
March 5th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Dragging the conversation back on-topic, apparently Weinland’s followers are saying that the lack of economic collapse in February is part of the seven thunders, which do not have definite dates, unlike the seven seals, which, prior to the seventh seal prediction for April 17th, have all been prophecy in hindsight (i.e., Weinland pointed at a past event and said “Look! There’s a seal!”) whereas he gave himself wiggle room for the seven thunders by not declaring any specific dates for them.
Weinland is playing his cards perfectly: All his opponents who are saying the economy is strong, he must be false, are given the pat answer “He(I) never said that so you’re just wrong wrong wrong!”
That’s why I corrected my misinformation about the seven seals/seven thunders as quickly as I could, when I realized Weinland was using that as misdirection and confusion to his advantage.
The only thing observers have to really, truly worry about in my opinion, is the fact that Weinland has set a definite date for the opening of the seventh seal, April 17th. He hasn’t said what’s going to happen, other than vague references to Satan not being able to influence anyone in the world anymore, but being able to influence “very powerfully so” “a great religious leader”.
Weinland is careful not to name the leader. His supporters and opponents are all wandering around crying “He means the pope! He means the pope!” and again, when nothing happens, he has complete deniability, because he never said it was the pope. That’s the conclusion his followers, and his detractors, jumped to.
I still believe there is the potential for something bad to happen to the followers of the CoG-PKG, between April 17th and the 18th. This could explain why Weinland is urging (as per his Mar. 1 sermon) followers to recruit ex-WCG family members who are either attending another splinter, or who are not in any church at all, between March 18th and April 17th.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Good Post WW.
I am glad that you are able to explain “how” and the outcomes of Weinland’s choosing of phrases.
Again, a “leader” such as Ronald Weinland will, at times, sit back and say nothing and be very vague– this gives him the wiggle room WW speaks about. During that window in which to wiggle, he sits back, knows that he hasn’t said too much in terms of specifics, and is able to claim truth to his predictions NOT MATTER WHAT is happening in the world.
WW pointed out: Weinland is careful not to name the leader. His supporters and opponents are all wandering around crying “He means the pope! He means the pope!” and again, when nothing happens, he has complete deniability, because he never said it was the pope.
And I sincerely hope people begin to see through the smokescreen (his followers), because we all know that he means the Pope. There is not doubt that Weinland believes the Pope will be overtaken by Satan and is the religious leader he speaks about. Yes, his hatred for Christianity and the Jews is obvious, but his complete act here comes from his complete hatred for the Catholic Church.
To Weinland Watch: From his last sermon, I personally took that Germany is going to lead the 10-nation kingdom that RW says will spearhead this Western World takeover. To me his is insinuating that Horst Kohler will be, in a sense will act as the Anti-Christ. What did you infer from that?
March 5th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Weinland Watch,
This is in response to your post. Weinland did not say that Satan would not be able to influence man anymore. On the contrary, he will be able to influence us all. He stated that Satan would not be able to influence the scattered church members who left the WCG after the apostasy in 1994. This is his way of saying that Ezekiel 5
will be accomplished. These scattered church members including the old WCG leadership (ministers) will be coming back into fellowship with his true church of God. Weinland also claimed that Satan would influence a great religious leader beginning with the opening of the 7th seal.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Actually he does mention the Pope specifically as the great religious leader ,or false prophet in his last sermons(he is also constantly stating that the Catholic Church is the great Hoare or false church,which we all know anyway).. Also the opening of the Seventh Seal is March 18th ,followed by 30 days of the scattered Church flocking back ,then its April 17th and Wamoo!..The Great Tribulation..
March 5th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Lest anyone think I was pulling rabbits out of my hats, I got the “Thiel is not a doctor” from here, namely:
“Why do folks like Bob Thiel have such an intense need to exploit the deaths of other religious leaders to further their own church’s agendas?
Because he’s two mints in one: mean and insane. He’s also a fake doctor for bonus points!”
Again, I offer apologies and retraction to Robert Thiel, for taking this commenter’s clearly tongue-in-cheek jest in earnest.
Paul, I’m not sure if you’re listening to the same sermons, or if the content on the site has been changed. I refer to this quote, from the 144,000 sermon:
“In just a few days, or weeks here now, Satan is not going have any of that power [to pull people towards protestantism]. And, quite candidly, he shifts his attention to another person on this earth. To a great religious leader. And it will happen. When he’s here in the United States. That’s what I’ve been referring to. That great religious leader is coming here to the United States. And at that day, and at that time, when all this begins, is a very time when he [Satan] has power to influence, very powerfully so, that individual. Very powerfully so.”
Regardless of whether you believe Weinland is speaking of the pope or not, Weinland himself is hedging his bets either way.
I am one of many who have commented that the sermon(s) indicate the seventh seal will open on April 17th, according to Weinland’s calculations (and by the calculations that this will be the beginning of the 1260 days, Daniel’s “time, times, and half a time”) backdating to Feb. 2 when the 1335 day countdown was first begun.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Does anyone besides me find it odd that I’m instructing Weinland’s believers on what exactly it is they’re supposed to believe?
reCaptcha phrase: staterooms 66 <- Think it’s missing one “6″.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Ironwolf–
Again thanks for letting me back in.
I think being a bit preachy is warranted here, however, respecting Ironwolf’s wishes to not do that should be respected.
Keep coming back here. This is a great blog, but come preach at my blog:
thetruthalive.blogspot.com
Jimmyhags
March 5th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
To WW
“Does anyone besides me find it odd that I’m instructing Weinland’s believers on what exactly it is they’re supposed to believe?”
That’s your delusion. You’re the one who thinks that none of us has heard of British Isrealism before Weinland. Almost every post of your’s is full of assumptions. You have to be corrected about what Weinland has said and meant is sermons constantly by believers or non-believers, and now you retract insults towards this Thiel guy because you found out he was reading this thread… How classy!! Yes you are really opening everyone’s eyes Weinland Watch.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
There is no other religious leader hes referring to but the Pope…if you listen to his whole sermon(23rd Feb),you will here him state that Satan commences his works thru this Pope as of March 18th,which is when Ronald states that the opening of the 7th Seal is…not April 17th…April 17th is when all the bad crap is supposed to happen..You see Ron says that there is a 30day period from the opening of the 7th Seal until the 1st Trumpet blows,which is April 17th..I dont think he has hedged his bets when it comes to the false church and deceitful leader of it..Ron has made it quite clear which Church and leader this is..For if he was to suddenly say..”Oh no i meant the Muslim leader and the Muslim faith”..then he would be looked on as a fool”…
March 6th, 2008 at 7:21 am
You get me the exact time on the track where he names the current sitting pontiff, as the great religious leader he is referring to, and I will concede your point.
ClaireUK (another exclusively online member of the church) was also corrected on the date confusion here.
Apparently (according to ClaireUK, who has it from another member of the church, who may actually be an attender):
“1335 days from the day Christ will return is 2nd Feb 08. The sealing of the 144,000 was completed on that date.
1290 days = 18th March 2008. That will be the opening of the seventh seal (and also the time when Satan no longer has the same power to deceive those in the Scattered groups. Some from those groups will begin to be awakened spiritually as a result). While there is silence in heaven for half an hour, there will not be silence on earth and the thunders will all ’sound’ powerfully during that time.
1260 days = 17th April 2008, the day the first trumpet of the seventh seal will ’sound’. It will also be the time of the beginning of what is called “The Great Tribulation”
So that’s where the confusion lies. The seventh seal opens on March 18th (according to this third-hand information we have here), and the 17th April is when “the first trumpet of the seventh seal” sounds.
Regardless of the semantics and word-play and confusion (which are all designed to prevent Weinland from being discredited, and explicitly designed to make sure his detractors appear to lack credibility), we can all agree that, as you say “April 17th is when the bad crap is supposed to happen”.
I just want to make sure the world knows ahead of time that Weinland is saying “April 17th is when the bad crap is supposed to happen” (whatever he happens to refer to is as), and that I happen to believe that “bad crap” will be a negative event in the lives of his followers, not the world at large.
Regardless of whether it’s the seventh seal, the first trumpet, or the final thunder. I just want to make sure that no one gets hurt on April 17th.
As for Weinland looking like a fool, well, when nothing happens on April 17th, he’s certainly going to look like a fool. The fact that he’s putting his neck this far out on the line indicates that either he knows nothing’s going to happen, and he’s just taking the crowd he’s suckered in along for the ride, or he has something definitively planned for that day, to “prove” his prophecies. That’s if he doesn’t take off with the tithe money during the “half hour of silence in heaven” in the first place.
Any way you slice it, come April 17th, the membership gets burned.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Weinland Watch,
Both of the possibilities you’re suggesting would indicate fraud or conspiracy on Weinland’s part. To be fair, there are two other possibilities as well, that do not:
3) He is just what he says he is, God’s prophet.
4) He honestly believes what he is saying, but is simply wrong.
From what I can see, of your two options and my two options, option 4 appears to be the most likely reality.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Comment removed: troll
March 6th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Ironwolf: I agree with your assessment, and I accept your additional options as possibilities.
Where the greater danger lies with option 4, in my opinion, is that Weinland may react unpredictably when option 4 proves true. Which, depending upon Weinland’s reaction and his orders to the membership (an instant message via one of the web sites?), could have a potentially negative effect on the members of the CoG-PKG.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:30 am
I think everyone here– those that believe Ron especially– need to understand some of the confusion with dates–
Ron Weinland is so bent on the “1994 Breakup of the WWCG” that left all of these “scattered” brethren.
One must look at the history of the WWCG and those that know “when”– this “scattering” as Ron Weinland talks about actually happened—and that Truthfully it started a few years before Tkach gave his “new covenant” speech.
It’s important to know that because all of the 1290 days and the 1260 days talk are hinged upon this December 1994 date that Ron keeps harping on.
It’s also important to know that Roderick Meredith, who Ron has predicted to die soon, by 1994 was out of the WWCG. Mr. Meredith was fired in 1992.
And if one looks into who exactly Rod Meredith is, his ties to H.W. Armstrong and his ministry– it’s easy to see that this huge “apostasy” that Weinland says happened on Dec. 17, 1994 doesn’t make any sense. Rod Meredith was very close to Herbert Armstr