Ron Weinland: Discussion Part 5
Welcome to the fifth Ron Weinland discussion thread!
Frequently Asked Questions
Q. What is this about?
A. Ron Weinland is either the One True Prophet of God, or just another false prophet. He’s getting a lot of attention right now as he says that the Great Tribulation spoken of in Revelation will start to hit us on April 17, 2008, and that America won’t even be able to put a new President into office next year. Ron Weinland preaches a theology closely derived from that taught by Herbert W. Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God (WCG) before their big merge with “orthodox” Christianity. See Part 1 for more information and links.
Q. Is Weinland a cult leader?
A. I reject the use of the term “cult” and I suggest you do too. It is most often used as an ad hominem attack on any religion one disapproves of, the result being to lower the quality of discourse. While some have compiled lists of traits that “cults” have, I have found that these can also usually be applied to much more popular and accepted sects, so to me this is also an unfruitful approach. These qualities can be used to identify sects that are more or less virulent at this time, but there is no objective “tipping point” where one sect deserves the epithet “cult” while another does not.
Q. Can I preach here?
A. No. Your comment will be deleted, and repeat offenders will be banned.
Q. What do you call preaching?
A. It’s a judgment call. This is about having a multi-way dialog, not you getting up in front of an audience and “letting us have it.” Posting a single scripture without comment is definitely preaching. The longer a comment goes without sounding like it’s really part of the conversation, the more likely I will judge it as sermonizing and remove it.
Q. You say you’re an atheist, but have you considered…?
A. Probably. E-mail me about it, but don’t bring it up in the thread: ironwolf@dangerousgames.com
March 2nd, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Steve,
Yes, well too bad about that.
March 2nd, 2008 at 2:26 pm
” Mark 10:31
But many who are First will be Last; and the Last First.”
I just wanted to be the first to post in Ron Weinland: Discussion Part 5…. or, is that last..? um..ok, whatever
March 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 pm
hi i havn’t posted in a while i have been listening to Ron for about 8 mos.
i just wanted to give my guess on who the other witness is (to be named later) at first i thought that it was his wife also. He is in a process to ordain many elders to help with the church when it becomes overwelmed with ppl seeking to find “the truth” about God and whats happening on earth, he had addressed the church that he would not be choosing women for this he stated that he was asked this so he wanted to make it clear. I have also thought it would be Johnny, but i would like to go off the deep end and say i don’t think it is him either because why wouldn’t he tell the church by now? So i am going to guess that it is someone from a splinter church that already knows that he is and he is just sitting back and waiting for something to happen so he can take much of the church with him to make the prophecy come true about the scattered church. Anyone else thought this might happen too, or am i a crack pot?
March 3rd, 2008 at 6:50 am
Does anyone know what Ron’s beliefs are on the rebuilding of the city of Babylon? Does he believe it actually the former site of ancient Babylon or does he believe it will be the resurrected Roman Empire? And also if anyone knows, what does he believe about the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem? Does he believe that it will be an actual structure or just a figure of speech?
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:00 am
Ron does believe his wife is the second witness…no question. Don’t know about his beliefs on Babylon, but I do know he doesn’t believe in the temple being rebuilt in Jerusalem. He believes the bible means that it is a “spiritual temple”.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:43 am
I believe everyone here must read this. Go to http://zionministry.com/Q&A/WCG%20and%20Armstrong.pdf. I think this is proof without a reasonable doubt that Weinland is a fake. The website that I found this on is http://www.zionministry.com. Boy, did this site open my eyes.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:58 am
I just tried the first link above and it won’t work. Go to http://www.zionministry.com and click on their literature link. If you go the the Q&A link, scroll down to the question about the WCG and Herbert Armstrong. A little lengthy but well worth the read.
Claire and anyone else who might be believing this man I challange you to visit this website and read the literature it has posted. It has the same beliefs that the WCG has (about the Sabbath and following God’s laws ) This site slapped me with the Truth! Please let me know what you think.
March 3rd, 2008 at 9:05 am
I just finished listening to Ron’s sermon from Saturday. (or Friday night, as he was in the Netherlands)
A couple of weeks ago I started to think and I stated that things are going to start spinning out of control for Ron. Based on this sermon, I think it’s starting.
He is really starting to push his book. Weinland Watch stated how he’s been instructing his followers to start using it and explaining things family members. Very strange. His sermons are becoming more like a book opening that you would listen to at Borders or Barnes & Noble.
This is a classic Worldwide Church of God tactic. Ron is doing whatever he can right now– his “prophecy in hindsight” is an old WWCG move in order to take credit for things that are happening in the world (or have happened in the past).– and it gets people to pretty much forget about the Bible. I remember folks that used to ram The US and Britain in Prophecy and Mystery of the Ages in my face and never bothered to try to line up Scripture with those books– because Armstrong pretty much told them they didn’t have to. And when I would ask them to show me in the Bible where this is located—they wouldn’t—they’d just accuse of me “not seeing it” because I was not “called into God’s Church.”
The old: “When you know something, you don’t need proof! You just know it!” Scary.
Ron is also really verbally pushing British-Israelism now in his sermons too.
I, too, am interested in seeing just how his members are going to go about circulating the “cards” he’s having printed up.
Thanks, Robert for letting me back in.
Jim Hagerty,
fka, jimmyhags, thetruthcommitee, Jimb and on one occasion, Larry Mondello.
March 3rd, 2008 at 9:28 am
Zion Ministry (quoted by Miss B.) is also a Christian Identity site. They’re refuting “prophecy” (at least where it disagrees with their own), but they appear to agree with BI. Just FYI.
Here’s the quote from the Mar. 1 sermon that caught my attention:
1:08:11-1:09:00
When Washington DC doesn’t exist anymore. When several port cities in the United States doesn’t exist anymore, and we have some of the things take place. Nuclear weapons that go off in some areas. You know, Katrina, there, crippled that part of the country. We have no comprehension what it’s going to be like when Chicago, New York, San Francisco, and Houston Texas, and Los Angeles, and different places like that, have nuclear weapons go off in them. And that’s before Germany does what it does. But then they step in. And they’re going to be the ones that come in and conquer. And that’s how we-Mr. Armstrong knew some very basic things here, that war was going to take place
It will be interesting to see if Weinland edits that part out, when he posts the sermon online.
Weinland is basically preaching from 1975 in Prophecy, adding his own timeline to it (and replacing the phrase “hydrogen bombs” with nuclear bombs.
March 3rd, 2008 at 10:20 am
Ironwolf,
I want you to know that I respect the warning you gave me, but I think in this post you may find that it is hard for me to resist. I will let you be the judge, if it is to off topic I understand. Thanks!
Ronald Weinland has stated that natural disasters (storms,earthquakes) will be increasing in number and intensity like, “birth pangs.” Here is a quote from the mouth of Secretary of Defense William Cohen at an April 1997 counterterrorism conference that may be of interest to some of you, “Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves. So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It’s real, and that’s the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that’s why this is so important.”
I will let you be the judge as to what this information may imply.
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:08 am
Jonathan,
Tell you what: if within 24 hours you can provide a URL for an authoritative source that William Cohen actually said that, I’ll let it stay. But googling “William Cohen” “electromagnetic waves” just gives me about 2000 hits on what appear to be purely conspiracy theorist sites that are echoing that attributon. If you can’t come up with anything authoritative, then the comment goes away. I want sources, not just “He said this.” This means authoritative transcripts, or reputable news outlets reporting on it. I’m also going to set the same standard for future comments you make of this kind. If you’re making scientific claims in your comments, I’ll want reputable scientific sources.
No sources = deletion.
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 am
Speaking of this Meredith (Iron Rod?) person…
On RW’s Interview page he claims that:
“As the leader of the Living Church of God, Roderick Meredith
is mentioned as one of many ministers who will die as a result
of the prophesied Fifth Thunder.”
Now this entirely (and eye poppingly) contradicts this bible verse:
1 John 4:20
“If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he
love God whom he hath not seen?”
So if Ronald is good at arithmetics I hope that he is able add these 2 things together… I’m all cool with God’s Justice and Vengeance and all that however Ronald leaves too many ’sane’ questions un-answered.
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 am
admiral11 Says:
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:00 am
Ron does believe his wife is the second witness…no question.
Tell me more, how can u say no question? I want you to provide me with something that tells you this, or i have questions! I have listened to every interview and every sermon for 8 mos., and have never heard him say or suggest this…the only thing that comes close is when he mentioned that there was a commercial that is going to air the same time the pope is in the usa, that has already been recorded, so someone knows who it is but i don’t feel he has gave it to the church or the world yet, but if you know something i don’t please tell me how you know.
March 3rd, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Here is the website where you can read the DoD news brief and Q&A that inculdes the quote I presented:
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674
The quote can be found in the last sentences of the answer part of the fourth set of Q&A. And Thanks for your honest skepticism, I try and rely on verifiable evidence, not just a bunch of crazies.
March 3rd, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Jonathan,
Thanks for that. I won’t analyze it here further, because that’s quite off topic, but I will say I remain quite skeptical of the ideas you’re presenting.
March 3rd, 2008 at 1:01 pm
dewayne….I know the man personally, and I have family members that are still in his church and know what is going on.
March 3rd, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Admiral11: Based on the Mar. 1 sermon, your family members may start more actively recruiting after Mar. 18th. Are you aware of any “cards” or other types of pamphleteering they are planning on doing after this date?
I personally think that this window (March 18th to April 17th) that Weinland may potentially have his membership evangelizing for him, may be a golden window of opportunity to counsel CoG-PKG members so they may effectively exit the organization before April 17th. Just something to think about. I wish all the best for your family members who are still in the church.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:03 pm
admiral, do your family members travel with him or are they listening to the same sermons i am? Where was the church before he started traveling, was it in cincinnati? Why are you not in the church anymore? Did you leave before he started saying he was the end time witness, or was that the factor in you deciding this man is crazy? I’m not trying to drill you and if anything I have asked offends you, i don’t mean to I am just trying to learn as much as I can. I would be lying if i said i don’t have my doubts, that is how i stumbled upon this site after all, but i am glad there are a few believers here too, so I know I am not alone. I will say this I feel that this church is the closest to God’s true plan for mankind, so even if Ron is wrong, I will still believe allot of things that this church has taught me in 8 months than the baptist church taught me in 15 years.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:18 pm
ironwolf,
i wanted to ask you a question about the church your family goes to. What if any are the diff between that church and pkg besides the fact that Ron is the end time witness or claims to be. What I’m trying to ask is, do they have sabbath worship, believe in the trinity, follow holy days, what is it that Ron says is diff why is it not the church God is working with right now? I would like to ask a big “what if” question, if the US is nuked in April and the 2 t.v. pastors are killed, do you think your wife and that church would become a part of the pkg, or would they think this has been a long time coming and start preparing for Jesus without Ron and the pkg?
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Dewayne,
Go back and read the information in Ironwolf’s 2nd blog regarding the information “T” presented. The source your looking for is in an audio sermon ? God?s Prophecy, part 2) which can be located at http://www.rweinland.com/sermons/.
Listen to this sermon and approximately 55 minutes into this sermon Ron gives information indicating that his Wife is the only person who has witnesses with him since 1994, the apostasy of the WCG as he interprets this spiritual division. He does not literally say that his “Wife” is the 2nd witness, but does imply that it is her. He also gives a warning to all his listening audience, like a “curse,” if any will spill the beans before the appointed time. I will paraphrase what Weinland simply states as “I would not want to be in your shoes, if you are the one sharing this information.” He is simply intimidating his followers. Is this a death sentence, before the return of Christ? Interpreting what Weinland said is anyones guess. If he did not want this to get out he should have edited the sermon or not have said and recorded these things.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Dewayne,
As I have said elsewhere, my wife still attends a congregation of the WCG, and I don’t attend anywhere, much less believe Christian metaphysical propositions. They still have services on Saturday, but many WCG congregations have switched to Sunday— it’s really left up to the individual congregations now. As far as I can tell, a sense of shared history is about all modern WCGers have in common with the old WCG— they are doctrinally pretty much indistinguishable from most of the rest of mainstream protestantism.
End-times prophecy really doesn’t come up in the WCG any more— that’s been left to the splinters, including COG-PKG. Neither my wife nor I watch TV, so I doubt we’d even notice that some TV pastors croaked unless someone like you told us. We’d certainly notice a nuclear bomb— who wouldn’t? I mean, even I noticed the nuclear bomb that went off on “24″, and I don’t even watch the damn show!
If any part of the U.S. gets nuked in April, I’d be surprised. If I survive. But notice that even a nuke going off on a fictional show like “24″ didn’t precipitate a storyline about the return of Jesus. (To my knowledge, anyway; like I say, I don’t watch the show.) Neither do I see any reason to think that any particular acts of terrorism on U.S. soil are likely to precipitate that particular story line in reality— much more evidence will be needed to make me a believer. (And it always irritates me how believers at this point in the conversation usually snigger, “Don’t worry, you’ll have your evidence!”)
Believe it or not, I think the U.S. would survive the (laughably unlikely) scenario of pocket nukes going off simultaneously in several large cities. It would hurt, to be sure, but we are simply too sprawling and decentralized for even that to debilitate us.
March 3rd, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Ive been listening to Rons sermons of late too,and there is definitely a feel of intimidation about them towards his followers,although at the same time he tries to humble himself which is kinda weird…Love to know whats going on in that head of his…..Is he the real deal?..I feel a lot of what he says about Christianity seems spot on,but at the same time even though he says he,s just a mortal messenger,how he comes across feels different..i,d like to hear other peoples opinions of his recent sermons….
March 3rd, 2008 at 10:53 pm
In Weinland’s sermons at the end of February concerning the last chapter of his book there were a couple interesting comments that Weinland had made. It is apparent that he is still wrestling with the job description that God gave him concerning his role as an end-time witness. He implied that he felt like quiting. I guess this might be getting on his consciousness. April coming quickly. I did hear Weinland say that God will be restoring the earth back to it original condition prior to Noah’s flood. If this is the case, than longevity will return to those who live in the Millennium. He said there would be more detail about his at a later time. I guess during the Tribulation. Weinland did repremand a lady for interrupting his sermon and said he knew that she was new and would talk to her after the service. He appeared to handle himself appropriately on the surface, but was he boiling inside? I wonder what his blood pressure is like. I can’t imagine what it must be like to be an end-time witness if this is the real deal. That would be like knowing the timing of your own death! What do you think could be going through Weinland head? Does he think about running and hiding …like Jonah? God would find him. I can’t imagine having this kind of job.
March 4th, 2008 at 7:35 am
If RW keeps going on like this he’s going to have another heart attack. It was 2-3yrs ago that he had a heart attack and then about a year ago I believe he had a stint put in. God’s end time witness seems a little fragile.
Dewayne…..my family has been in it for a long time. That is really the only reason I was involved. I think they are in Toledo, OH. The difference between Weinland and the other splinters, I think, is something to do with Armstrong. I’ve heard RW say that Rod Meredith’s greatest downfall is that he acknowledges that Armstrong was a great teacher, but doesn’t say that he was the Elijah to come. Which seems kind of strange that RW questions Merideth when he was one of the original students at AC, broadcasted on Armstrong’s radio program, and worked closely with Armstrong for like 50yrs.
March 4th, 2008 at 8:14 am
Ironwolf,
Thanks for the forum…I have read both Weinland books, heard his sermons and listened to interviews…I must say, anyone looking for “answers” (like myself) could very easily believe in his end time prophecies and him being being one of the end time prophets.
I was introduced to Weinland through a friend sending me his 2 “free” books, which she discovered on the internet. I must say, my friend “believes”. At the time, we were heavily engaged in discussions regarding the self destructive path this old world is going down. We both felt (feel) if we continue (globally) we may reach the “prophecized end time.” (my friend believes it “religiously” and I by means of logic).
Our many discussions are not unlike those I have read here and am intrigued and engaged by most of it.
Although my intellect dictates 99% of my perception of my reality of the world, there is still that 1% that poses the question: What if?…What if? I suppose time will tell.
March 4th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Hi Robbie
There should be more than 1% of your mind that is questioning What if?. I suppose you are referring to “What if this is true? ” Whether we like it or not, we are at an unprecedented time in history. God has a 7000 year plan for mankind. We are coming to the end of the 6000 year time period that man was given to govern himself. God has left us to our own devices for 6000 years and look at what we have done to the planet. Look how sick and against God this world is.
As things stand now, most of the prophecies in the Book of Revelation have been fulfilled. We are waiting for the opening of The Seventh Seal which is physicl destruction upon the earth. The other six seals were spiritual and happened within God’s True Church which has existed since Pentecost 31 AD. This is not the Catholic church or any other Christian organisation that splintered off her, but a church that has remained small throughout time and unknown in the world. God has only worked with a VERY small amount of people over the last 6000 years, but the time that we are living in now is the time that God is going to manifest Himself to mankind through the opening of the Seventh Seal.
I know that nothing I can say here can change anybody’s mind. God is the only one that can make you see his Truth and who is speaking it. I know that in time God will open up peoples minds more and more to see what is true. The devastation that is coming is unprecedented, but many will be delivered through The Great Tribulation if they repent and turns to God’s way of life. (The Ten Commandments and The Holy Days)That’s why the books have been written. God knows we need PROOF and we’re going to get it when everything recorded in those two books comes to pass, starting in April this year.
The personal attacks against Ronald Weinland here are unfair and uncalled for. He states very clearly in his sermons that this is not a role he would have chosen and compares himself to Jonah. I guess what I’m trying to say is, that you guys should stop trying to shoot the messenger. I can understand people being afraid of the destruction etc. But all of it will be man made. The nuclear weapons are set of by us - mankind. God is not making any of these things happen, but allowing it. In the end it is Him who stop us from completely annihilating ourselves because all life would be erased from the planet if God didnt intervene.
Whether we like it or not, this is where we are, waiting for the opening of The Seventh Seal. All of the other prophecies preceding that are fulfilled. I don’t know why you guys don’t just take a break from here and wait to see the proof.
Ironwolf, I hope you don’t erase this for being too “preachy” I think you know me well enough to know I am only speaking what i have recently learned and giving people the other side of the argument. I’m gonna be cheeky again too. For anyone who believes what is written in the two books by Ronald Weinland to check out my myspace http://www.myspace.com/ronaldweinland. A few other believers have gotten in contact from here and other blogs. Sorry for pluggin Ironwolf.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:17 am
For someone who’s taken on the role of Jonah, Weinland certainly seems to be living a high-class lifestyle, thanks to all those tithes.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Claire UK,
Now where else have I seen hubris like this recently? Hmm…. Oh, yes! From another ex-WCGer:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=L7uBxCEujIM
March 4th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Ah, yes, “Overseer” Yisrayl Hawkins. According to rumour, myth, and/or possible legend, he wasn’t even a member of the ministry during the splits! A paid member, that is. One source said he may have been an elder, but it was a non-CoG source (A&E special on The House of Yahweh) and so did not elaborate on a distinction that would have been of interest to ex-CoG members only.
Hawkins is a good example of just how much more extremist Weinland could be; at least CoG-PKG members don’t walk around wearing masks and veils, as the women in Hawkins’ compound do. (Satan, in Hawkins’ mytheology, is/was female, thus all women must be covered.)
One presumes Weinland does not take it to that extreme because then the tithes-payers would dry up, and the world might chance to look more unfavourably upon one of the two witnesses than it already does.
“Most of the prophecies of the book of Revelation have already been fulfilled.” Now, see, here you and I are in agreement ClaireUK. I think it is possible that all of the prophecies of the book of Revelation have been fulfilled, although I’m not sure whether I believe the theory completely myself.
There was this temple see, in Jerusalem, around 70AD……The book of Revelation was fulfilled a few millennia ago, according to some believers. There are a few iffy verses, which for over three-quarters of a century, Armstrongists have been using to promote a “dualism” theology of the book of Rev. and scare the bejeebus out of their followers for over seventy-five years.
Anyone considering buying into Weinland’s predictions have to take into account the fact that Weinland is relying upon the texts and speculations of a man who preached that “the end was nigh” within “ten to fifteen years”, within “this generation”, over seventy-five years ago.
A little research into history (real history, not BI history) offers up a few more “proofs” on the book of Revelation being a retelling of the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem (well after the fact) in 70AD. Now, that said, this theory relies on Josephus, which is the problem with the theory (in my opinion).
A little research into the unbiased history of the Church of God movement under Herbert W. Armstrong, and there is no way Weinland’s predictions can hold up under scrutiny, given the original source material.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Another eye-opening video on youtube is KScribe’s “1975 in Prophecy”, even though it has a christian bias at the end.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Oops sorry that was a bad link:-
http://www.myspace.com/ronaldweinland
March 4th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
I need some feedback on this question of mine:
I am fairly well versed on the workings of the old WWCG and Armstrongism, including British-Israelism. However, Ron Weinland, to me, is beginning to speak wiht a fork tongue.
Toward the end of the last week’s sermon, he reads from his book then starts “explaining” the difference between Israel and Judah.
I will start by saying that Ronald is beginning to sound like a Nazi. Secondly, he claims that the nation of “Israel” has lost its identity because it “stopped keeping the Sabbath and Holy Days.” He THEN goes on to say that Judah– the TRUE Jewish nation has always kept God’s Sabbath and Holy Days so God has “allowed” it to keep its identity, so that every nation knows who the true Jewish people are.
Earlier on in his sermon he repeatedly slammed the Jewish faith for corrupting the world.
Whether one is a Christian or not, it’s clear that God certainly doesn’t speak with a fork tongue. But here, if you are going to believe Ronald Weinland, then you must believe that God is ANGRY at the Jews, but has spared them the stripping of their identity because they have always kept the Sabbath–although, according to Weinland, have “CORRUPTED” it.
After listening to this last sermon, I can’t follow what Ron actually believes. I do know that he’s way off on the Israel thing. His history is distorted and he seems to not be thinking clearly.
And I can’t help but to continue to believe that Ronald Weinland–100%, without a doubt, has NO clue about the New Testament. (I guess that should not be a surprise, since his OT theology is way off and his view of Jesus comes straight out of Armstrongism.)
Anyone else starting to notice Ron slipping a bit?
March 4th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Robert, I left 2 responses…don’t see them..I don’t know what I am doing wrong…please advise.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Ironwolf– please pardon the second post.
Question: How many Weinland believers in here REALLY know what British-Israelism is?
March 4th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Hey Ironwolf,
I noticed my post got deleted off and that is fine. A bit outside of the topic base here. Next time I will email you what I find. I bet you found it somewhat interesting though.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Robbi,
I’m not sure what you could be doing wrong… the comment I’m replying to seems to have come through fine. I always recommend that if you are going to put significant effort into a comment, then you should do it in an external text editor and then paste it into the comments field. That way if something goes wrong, you’ll still have a copy.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Peter,
Thanks. When in doubt, e-mail is always a good way of checking.
March 4th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
“Nov 24, 2007 Year Nearly Over” (Posts on website)
“The world economy is shaking/quaking worse each day and is coming more and more to the forefront of news commentary. Next year will see the Dollar collapse and the Euro become the new strength for the world’s economy. The thunders of Revelation are now going to begin to increase in intensity and frequency. Beginning in February, those thunders will increase dramatically, and by April this world will begin to be shaken to its foundations.”
What “thunders” have in increased dramatically in Feb? What world events have happened that he is talking about happening in Feb - does anyone know?
March 4th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
What “thunders” have in increased dramatically in Feb? What world events have happened that he is talking about happening in Feb - does anyone know?
Exactly! (good find CallieMae!)
“Nov 24, 2007 Year Nearly Over:”
Next year will see the Dollar collapse and the Euro become the new strength for the world’s economy.
Wait a sec here. Does the dollar collapse BEFORE or AFTER the nuclear war??? He is not saying the dollar weakening but collapsing! No collapse yet…just slightly below compared to the Canadian currency.
If there is a nuke war then…yeah I suppose the dollar would collapse……..
Let me guess he is not going to explain this…again.
The happenings ’spiritually’ cards are running out… and the clock keeps on ticking.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Exactly CallieMae…Even though the story seems real enough to happen,nothing on a more significant scale has happened since February..nothing appears to be getting louder to me either,apart from Rons rhetoric…One person i do believe believes this fully though,and thats Ron himself..Thats why so many people are “sucked in”..also the script would make a great Spielberg movie…Claire..do you believe this because you want to believe it?..i know his Christian teachings seem spot on in a lot of ways,but stop and think for a moment..Could Ron be wrong?…we shall see
March 5th, 2008 at 5:51 am
Apparently now the CoG-PKG is in overdrive trying to push members of “the scattered church” back into Weinland’s fold (and their money back into his pockets one presumes):
“Our purpose is to support, educate, and warn the scattered Church that was formerly united in the Worldwide Church of God.”
They have changed this to the front page of the site.
As for February, the thunders are only supposed to “get louder”. In other words, whatever happens, it can be attributed to the thunders.
According to Weinland (don’t have the location of the quote on me at the moment–think it’s in the book), Canada’s going to go down the tubes with the US because it’s “her[America’s] prophetic brother”.
Unfortunately for Weinland, the Canadian dollar is getting stronger, not weaker, unemployment is down, and the economy is looking actually bullish north of the border.
Weinland’s explanation for this? Oh right. He doesn’t have one.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:37 am
As I have done before (with regards to my confusion between the seven seals and the seven thunders in Weinland’s theology), I must state that I was in error with regards to the remark below, made here, to wit:
“As for Weinland’s predictions being accurate in hindsight, that’s a tactic straight from the LCG playbook; Meredith was just vague enough that his apologist (who calls himself a “doctor”, but his degree is from the non-accredited and now defunct AC) now claims Meredith predicted 9/11.”
Meredith’s tactics of prophecy-in-hindsight notwithstanding, apparently his apologist does indeed have a PhD, and did not attend Ambassador College.
Interesting to note, however, that Robert Thiel, author of the deceptively titled Church of God News is reading this discussion board.
My apologies and sincere retraction tendered to Robert Thiel. I do not believe that I have stated any similar sentiments on the WW blog, if I have, I will retract those immediately. Thank you for the clarification.
March 5th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Dragging the conversation back on-topic, apparently Weinland’s followers are saying that the lack of economic collapse in February is part of the seven thunders, which do not have definite dates, unlike the seven seals, which, prior to the seventh seal prediction for April 17th, have all been prophecy in hindsight (i.e., Weinland pointed at a past event and said “Look! There’s a seal!”) whereas he gave himself wiggle room for the seven thunders by not declaring any specific dates for them.
Weinland is playing his cards perfectly: All his opponents who are saying the economy is strong, he must be false, are given the pat answer “He(I) never said that so you’re just wrong wrong wrong!”
That’s why I corrected my misinformation about the seven seals/seven thunders as quickly as I could, when I realized Weinland was using that as misdirection and confusion to his advantage.
The only thing observers have to really, truly worry about in my opinion, is the fact that Weinland has set a definite date for the opening of the seventh seal, April 17th. He hasn’t said what’s going to happen, other than vague references to Satan not being able to influence anyone in the world anymore, but being able to influence “very powerfully so” “a great religious leader”.
Weinland is careful not to name the leader. His supporters and opponents are all wandering around crying “He means the pope! He means the pope!” and again, when nothing happens, he has complete deniability, because he never said it was the pope. That’s the conclusion his followers, and his detractors, jumped to.
I still believe there is the potential for something bad to happen to the followers of the CoG-PKG, between April 17th and the 18th. This could explain why Weinland is urging (as per his Mar. 1 sermon) followers to recruit ex-WCG family members who are either attending another splinter, or who are not in any church at all, between March 18th and April 17th.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Good Post WW.
I am glad that you are able to explain “how” and the outcomes of Weinland’s choosing of phrases.
Again, a “leader” such as Ronald Weinland will, at times, sit back and say nothing and be very vague– this gives him the wiggle room WW speaks about. During that window in which to wiggle, he sits back, knows that he hasn’t said too much in terms of specifics, and is able to claim truth to his predictions NOT MATTER WHAT is happening in the world.
WW pointed out: Weinland is careful not to name the leader. His supporters and opponents are all wandering around crying “He means the pope! He means the pope!” and again, when nothing happens, he has complete deniability, because he never said it was the pope.
And I sincerely hope people begin to see through the smokescreen (his followers), because we all know that he means the Pope. There is not doubt that Weinland believes the Pope will be overtaken by Satan and is the religious leader he speaks about. Yes, his hatred for Christianity and the Jews is obvious, but his complete act here comes from his complete hatred for the Catholic Church.
To Weinland Watch: From his last sermon, I personally took that Germany is going to lead the 10-nation kingdom that RW says will spearhead this Western World takeover. To me his is insinuating that Horst Kohler will be, in a sense will act as the Anti-Christ. What did you infer from that?
March 5th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Weinland Watch,
This is in response to your post. Weinland did not say that Satan would not be able to influence man anymore. On the contrary, he will be able to influence us all. He stated that Satan would not be able to influence the scattered church members who left the WCG after the apostasy in 1994. This is his way of saying that Ezekiel 5
will be accomplished. These scattered church members including the old WCG leadership (ministers) will be coming back into fellowship with his true church of God. Weinland also claimed that Satan would influence a great religious leader beginning with the opening of the 7th seal.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Actually he does mention the Pope specifically as the great religious leader ,or false prophet in his last sermons(he is also constantly stating that the Catholic Church is the great Hoare or false church,which we all know anyway).. Also the opening of the Seventh Seal is March 18th ,followed by 30 days of the scattered Church flocking back ,then its April 17th and Wamoo!..The Great Tribulation..
March 5th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Lest anyone think I was pulling rabbits out of my hats, I got the “Thiel is not a doctor” from here, namely:
“Why do folks like Bob Thiel have such an intense need to exploit the deaths of other religious leaders to further their own church’s agendas?
Because he’s two mints in one: mean and insane. He’s also a fake doctor for bonus points!”
Again, I offer apologies and retraction to Robert Thiel, for taking this commenter’s clearly tongue-in-cheek jest in earnest.
Paul, I’m not sure if you’re listening to the same sermons, or if the content on the site has been changed. I refer to this quote, from the 144,000 sermon:
“In just a few days, or weeks here now, Satan is not going have any of that power [to pull people towards protestantism]. And, quite candidly, he shifts his attention to another person on this earth. To a great religious leader. And it will happen. When he’s here in the United States. That’s what I’ve been referring to. That great religious leader is coming here to the United States. And at that day, and at that time, when all this begins, is a very time when he [Satan] has power to influence, very powerfully so, that individual. Very powerfully so.”
Regardless of whether you believe Weinland is speaking of the pope or not, Weinland himself is hedging his bets either way.
I am one of many who have commented that the sermon(s) indicate the seventh seal will open on April 17th, according to Weinland’s calculations (and by the calculations that this will be the beginning of the 1260 days, Daniel’s “time, times, and half a time”) backdating to Feb. 2 when the 1335 day countdown was first begun.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Does anyone besides me find it odd that I’m instructing Weinland’s believers on what exactly it is they’re supposed to believe?
reCaptcha phrase: staterooms 66 <- Think it’s missing one “6″.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Ironwolf–
Again thanks for letting me back in.
I think being a bit preachy is warranted here, however, respecting Ironwolf’s wishes to not do that should be respected.
Keep coming back here. This is a great blog, but come preach at my blog:
thetruthalive.blogspot.com
Jimmyhags
March 5th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
To WW
“Does anyone besides me find it odd that I’m instructing Weinland’s believers on what exactly it is they’re supposed to believe?”
That’s your delusion. You’re the one who thinks that none of us has heard of British Isrealism before Weinland. Almost every post of your’s is full of assumptions. You have to be corrected about what Weinland has said and meant is sermons constantly by believers or non-believers, and now you retract insults towards this Thiel guy because you found out he was reading this thread… How classy!! Yes you are really opening everyone’s eyes Weinland Watch.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
There is no other religious leader hes referring to but the Pope…if you listen to his whole sermon(23rd Feb),you will here him state that Satan commences his works thru this Pope as of March 18th,which is when Ronald states that the opening of the 7th Seal is…not April 17th…April 17th is when all the bad crap is supposed to happen..You see Ron says that there is a 30day period from the opening of the 7th Seal until the 1st Trumpet blows,which is April 17th..I dont think he has hedged his bets when it comes to the false church and deceitful leader of it..Ron has made it quite clear which Church and leader this is..For if he was to suddenly say..”Oh no i meant the Muslim leader and the Muslim faith”..then he would be looked on as a fool”…
March 6th, 2008 at 7:21 am
You get me the exact time on the track where he names the current sitting pontiff, as the great religious leader he is referring to, and I will concede your point.
ClaireUK (another exclusively online member of the church) was also corrected on the date confusion here.
Apparently (according to ClaireUK, who has it from another member of the church, who may actually be an attender):
“1335 days from the day Christ will return is 2nd Feb 08. The sealing of the 144,000 was completed on that date.
1290 days = 18th March 2008. That will be the opening of the seventh seal (and also the time when Satan no longer has the same power to deceive those in the Scattered groups. Some from those groups will begin to be awakened spiritually as a result). While there is silence in heaven for half an hour, there will not be silence on earth and the thunders will all ’sound’ powerfully during that time.
1260 days = 17th April 2008, the day the first trumpet of the seventh seal will ’sound’. It will also be the time of the beginning of what is called “The Great Tribulation”
So that’s where the confusion lies. The seventh seal opens on March 18th (according to this third-hand information we have here), and the 17th April is when “the first trumpet of the seventh seal” sounds.
Regardless of the semantics and word-play and confusion (which are all designed to prevent Weinland from being discredited, and explicitly designed to make sure his detractors appear to lack credibility), we can all agree that, as you say “April 17th is when the bad crap is supposed to happen”.
I just want to make sure the world knows ahead of time that Weinland is saying “April 17th is when the bad crap is supposed to happen” (whatever he happens to refer to is as), and that I happen to believe that “bad crap” will be a negative event in the lives of his followers, not the world at large.
Regardless of whether it’s the seventh seal, the first trumpet, or the final thunder. I just want to make sure that no one gets hurt on April 17th.
As for Weinland looking like a fool, well, when nothing happens on April 17th, he’s certainly going to look like a fool. The fact that he’s putting his neck this far out on the line indicates that either he knows nothing’s going to happen, and he’s just taking the crowd he’s suckered in along for the ride, or he has something definitively planned for that day, to “prove” his prophecies. That’s if he doesn’t take off with the tithe money during the “half hour of silence in heaven” in the first place.
Any way you slice it, come April 17th, the membership gets burned.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Weinland Watch,
Both of the possibilities you’re suggesting would indicate fraud or conspiracy on Weinland’s part. To be fair, there are two other possibilities as well, that do not:
3) He is just what he says he is, God’s prophet.
4) He honestly believes what he is saying, but is simply wrong.
From what I can see, of your two options and my two options, option 4 appears to be the most likely reality.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Comment removed: troll
March 6th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Ironwolf: I agree with your assessment, and I accept your additional options as possibilities.
Where the greater danger lies with option 4, in my opinion, is that Weinland may react unpredictably when option 4 proves true. Which, depending upon Weinland’s reaction and his orders to the membership (an instant message via one of the web sites?), could have a potentially negative effect on the members of the CoG-PKG.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:30 am
I think everyone here– those that believe Ron especially– need to understand some of the confusion with dates–
Ron Weinland is so bent on the “1994 Breakup of the WWCG” that left all of these “scattered” brethren.
One must look at the history of the WWCG and those that know “when”– this “scattering” as Ron Weinland talks about actually happened—and that Truthfully it started a few years before Tkach gave his “new covenant” speech.
It’s important to know that because all of the 1290 days and the 1260 days talk are hinged upon this December 1994 date that Ron keeps harping on.
It’s also important to know that Roderick Meredith, who Ron has predicted to die soon, by 1994 was out of the WWCG. Mr. Meredith was fired in 1992.
And if one looks into who exactly Rod Meredith is, his ties to H.W. Armstrong and his ministry– it’s easy to see that this huge “apostasy” that Weinland says happened on Dec. 17, 1994 doesn’t make any sense. Rod Meredith was very close to Herbert Armstrong. In fact, many thought that after Armstrong died, Meredith was a top candidate to take over as Pastor General.
Meredith was one of the first AC graduates and planted at least 4 very large congregations for WWCG. His firing after 40 plus years of service under Armstrong came because the doctrinal changes were already underway by both Tkachs and several other ministers. The “new covenant” sermon Tkach gave in Dec. 1994 was not something he just did out of the blue. The doctrinal changes started very shortly after Armstrong died and it took about 7 or 8 years for them to be completely put into place.
Also, Gerald Flurry was let go from WWCG in 1989. He also opposed the “new doctrines” and accused the WWCG of “abandoning” the works of H.W. Armstrong.
By 1994 many members had already left and joined Meredith and Flurry. The “huge exodus” from the WWCG did not happen all at once.
This is very important for those who are going along with RW’s date setting bologna.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:02 am
He goes on to say in one of his last sermons,(again i think it was the 23rd Feb sermon) that Satan,on 17th April is going to put all his effort and influence specifically on the Pope who is in America at this time,who in turn is going to influence Europe with evil agendas..O.k thas cool.but the Pope is still in America till the 20th and is supposed to survive until the end of Tribulation..shouldnt he be getting out of the U.S a bit earlier or are the terrorists gonna wait for old Popey to leave on the 20th of April before they cause chaos?..:)…By the way i know its hard but you gotta listen to all of his sermons to capture the points of interest mentioned,and they go on for well over an hour or so it seems…
March 6th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Ronald Weinland…..In his Feb. 23rd Sermon speaking of when Christ comes back:
“… and the 144,000 that are with him, we all are going to a part of that. We who are part of the 144,000, were are going to be part of helping destroy millions of people in one day! Truly. That means put them do death.
The snowball is getting bigger, folks. Ron Weinland certainly seems to me, like he’s basking in the destruction of people. The man needs help.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:35 am
I don’t know much about anything, but lately I was just looking for anything to do with the illuminati and the antichrist, and I happened to stumble upon ron’s new book, I started reading it yesterday, and I was just like WTF, ya know, is this guy serious? My next point of concern was, why have I never heard of this guy, and why have nobody I met heard of this guy. So I assume fake, but his analogy of a woman in contractions seemed compelling. We did have the worst cluster of natural disasters in 2005. Is he the prophet he says he is? I will keep an open mind about it for sure.
Just for the record: I pray (and that’s about it. No church affiliation)
Perhaps you have already covered this (but I only read the first couple of posts because I was so far behind on discovering this guy), but what sort catastophic events will have to happen before the nonbelievers believe?
9.0 LA earthquake? Rounds of intense hurricanes and tornadoes?
Summer of 07 had some record drought (Southeast US) and others places had record rainfall and flooding (Midwest US), We also had record snowfall (Madison, WI, and I’m assuming others had some too).
Just want to hear some input so I can be in the loop too.
Reeces Pieces ladies and gents
March 6th, 2008 at 11:40 am
If Weinland already looks at the Pope as a pagan, tool for the Devil, the
‘root’ of all problems… Then is there anything good the Pope will be able to say at all? To each word, each sentence he can latch on like clubbing baby seals. This is a very easy circumstance (red flag, red flag red, flag) that…he created for himself. After April the 17th (now it seems that this whole month will have to be taken into account…)I’m not sure how exactly the makeup then breakup process will go down for the distraught congregation. Weinland definitely does not strike me as a sect/cult exit counselor type of guy…
March 6th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
That still doesn’t give me an exact time-stamp on the quote you’re referring to. When I went through the 144K sermon (albeit partway), all I got was “a great religious leader”, and more of the same-old, same-old, “The Germans are coming! The Germans are coming!” hoopla we had to endure under Armstrong, re: the ten nations in Europe being the seven- and ten-headed beasts, under a unified leader (no names again) etc.
I did not hear Weinland state by name that it specifically was the current sitting pontiff of the RCC. This implies a shrewdery on Weinland’s part that may indicate he really isn’t drinking his own Kool-Aid, and really is in it solely to defraud the members of their money.
I did listen to the entirety of the Mar. 1 sermon (which was cut mercifully short by a half-hour due to Weinland’s food poisoning), since there has been a definite lag between the weekly services and the sermons being posted on the site. I am thinking this is intentional, since it is now twelve days and counting to “the seventh seal”.
“but the Pope is still in America till the 20th and is supposed to survive until the end of Tribulation..shouldnt he be getting out of the U.S a bit earlier or are the terrorists gonna wait for old Popey to leave on the 20th of April before they cause chaos?..:)”
I think you just answered your own question. There won’t be any chaos caused.
(Unless Weinland, or his man in America Johnny Harrell, has something in the works.)
March 6th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Sorry, I didn’t see Firestorm’s comment, I am responding to Paul’s last post.
Firestorm:
“I’m not sure how exactly the makeup then breakup process will go down for the distraught congregation. Weinland definitely does not strike me as a sect/cult exit counselor type of guy…”
This is my concern as well.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
BrainFart, there have been many other things as well in regards to the thunders, keep in mind that I thought Art Mokarow’s interpretation of everything relating to bible prophecy was more on target than Weinland’s until I noticed the thunders getting louder.
The US economy is on very shaky ground, not many people a couple of years ago would have thought it was possible for the euro to overtake the dollar in such a short time. There is talk that gas could again hit an all time high this spring, this affects the cost of everything.
People have very short memories when it comes to natural disaters in this country because in early February, there were tons of tornadoes that swept across the southeast destroying hundreds of homes and killing at least 59 people. Towns were nearly destroyed. There have been a few states declare their’s to be a state of emergency due to weather conditions in the last 2 years and these all hurt our economy, yet people only seem to remember Katrina. Nothing on that scale is supposed to happen until the 7th seal is opened I believe.
There seems to have been alot more notable people that has died in the last year, not all as big as Heath Ledger, Anna Nicole and Bhutto, but tons of people who were entertainers and very influential. I’ve heard people who know nothing about Weinland say things like “what’s up with all of the talented actors dying in such a short span of time?”. Several notable religious leaders have died in the last year.
And the fact that Weinland was mentioning April back in August before it was available for the public or probably even scheluled for the pope to be in the US at that time and giving a speech on the very day Ron has prophesied that the sounding of the 1st trumpet will be blown is pretty ironic to say the least. Ron says that what comes out of the pope’s mouth on that day won’t be what people are accustomed to hearing from him. There is alot to consider here.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Thanks Jay29,
No doubt this country is in trouble socially, economically, politically, religiously, morally, ect. I’ve told people that when the FED was created in 1913, it only took 17 years for the Great Depression. Now the FED has been involved for almost a century. The coming economic collapse will make the Great Depression look like a cakewalk. Hitler will look like a school girl, and WWI and WWII combined won’t even look so bad if we get involved in a (WWIII) nuclear/chemical/biological war. Our states are already fighting over water, food, land, energy. We have a system that tells people they can do whatever they want, but it only makes things worse after all the longterm damage begins to add up.
Execuse me for asking but can somebody lay out these events (chronologically for me). I’m just a little confused what happens when. From what I think I understand, on Feb 2nd 2008, all of the 144k people were chosen? Whoever thinks they can best tackle this for me, I would appreciate it.
See you at the finish line
March 6th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
NOTHINGS GONNA HAPPEN!!!
March 6th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
February 2nd was the sealing of the 144k, most of them are dead, a few still alive.
March 18th is the opening of the 7th seal. April 17th is the sounding of the 1st trumpet. The reason the 1st trumpet doesn’t sound until the 17th is because revelation says something like after the 7th seal is opened there was silence in heaven for the space of about half an hour, which Ron says prophetically means 30 days.
I’m not completely sure about what, if much is supposed to happen between these dates, I’ve heard Ron say that the church won’t be influenced by Satan during this time and that Satan as he was going to influence the pope greatly between these dates. Also, I think the thunders (birth pangs) are supposed to increase.
After April 17′th, anything is possible, but remember, the 1st trumpet only begins to sound on that date, it doesn’t mean nukes are going off, but something is supposed to happen. I think this has to do with the pope being in the US.
March 6th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
I have recently read Ronald Weinland book and his claims to be one of the witnesses. For me it as just as hard to believe someone could make such a drastic claim. But, his claims are strong and hard to argue. I would like to discuss his writing on how different animals and humans are actually NOTHING alike. Back in the first section you were talking about “Belief” and “Faith”. No animal can have such a thing, they only act on instincts. This is not some random idea; it is a fact that animals only act on instincts. For instance you can have a dog that has had many generations before it domesticated, but if that dog is left out in the wild, it will always go back on what it actually knows…instinct. We are taking our freedom of will for granted, if I was only acting on instinct, I would probably only be worrying about one thing, sex. But instead we our on this tread talking about our own doom, another thing an animal has no understanding of. The closest thing to us is actually a dolphin, but it is still bound on its instincts. The main point I’m trying to say is that we seem to have a freedom over all other living things, we do not follow such a code. If you have any creditable evidence to debunk such an argument I would love to hear it, because we our all here to gather a further understanding of what really is going on.
P.S. Just because we have a bigger brain does not bring any evidence to debunk this. Ask yourself, why do we have such a big brain and no other creature, if that’s what you were leaning towards.
March 6th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
I would also like to point this out to you. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2147879.stm
I’m not sure if anyone has taken this into considerable evidence yet, but it sure does send a sign, seven years before 2019 is 2012…make your own assumptions.
As of February 29, 2008 I have not been able to get this apocalyptic view out of my head. And I found this correlation. That day is also the leap day. The next is 2012.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Hi iv read Weinlands 2 books and I was convinced he was a prophet from God. A few things didnt make sence to me but I shrugged it all off. I also was attending a seventh day adventist church and although similar they both have different ideas about the future ect so I was getting pretty confused and quite lost and felt distant from God so I prayed asked for an answer and was given a verse to go and look up which is what happens to me Jeremiah 17:5
which say cursed is he who follows man and not God - Follow God! so I quickly repented and turned back to listening to God and all is good. But I still am interested in Weinland only not as my no 1 priority! You should all pray for guidance and remember to allways put God first. I just wanted to share that with you all.God bless.
March 6th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Hello, again. I usually only get to read and sometimes post at nite when I get home from work. I always read here though, to see what is the latest.
In the book “2008 Final Witness - pg 92″”, RW is saying something about the first phase of the fifth thunder is “one of RW’s own choosing” and that “God has granted this to him as part of His own will and purpose for the Church”.
How could the fifth thunder be one of “his own choosing”? What could he be meaning “of his own choosing”?
Also, he is saying that the notable deaths of the leading preachers are from the “scattered church leaders”. (Maybe the ones who exiled him.) And he is saying that he is praying that this “fifth thunder” be exactly as he is writing about it and that “His petition covers more in regard to the scattered ministers”. Weird. He even names the scattered churches who the leaders are head of that will die. He seems to have a lot of animosity toward them.
Of “his own choosing” - what is he meaning? Do you know?
March 6th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
This is in response to your latest post about 144,000 who will be resurrected at Christ’s second coming.
“… and the 144,000 that are with him, we all are going to a part of that. We who are part of the 144,000, were going to be part of helping destroy millions of people in one day! Truly. That means put them do death.
The 144,000, who according to Weinland were sealed on February 2, 2008. These people are part of the “first resurrection” and this resurrection occurs on the day Christ returns. Weinland is supposed to be resurrected this same day with these 144,000.
This day is September 29, 2011 according to Weinland’s timeline of events. This is a busy day for God the father and Christ. First, Christ resurrects the 2 witnesses, (Ron and his Wife). Secondly, during this same moment, as the two witnesses are resurrected the 144,000 are also resurrected. Thirdly, towards the end of this 24 hour period, Christ fulfills prophecy in the Valley of Megiddo. This is known as Armageddon. This is ceremonial at best. Christ does not need these 144,000 to assist him in destroying approximately 200 million soldiers from China and Europe. In Revelation, it describes that these elect (144,000) are with Christ when he fulfills this prophecy which prevents man from destroying himself and all life off the face of the earth. Jim I would recommend going back and reading “The final three and one-half years” in Weinland’s latest book for more specific information. The information is there and be cautious, because these are Weinland interpretations. Many scholars would argue that the events that Weinland proposes which will occur in one 24 hour period would be impossible. That’s why many people for housands of years have believed that there are 2 three and one-half year periods. But, giving Weinland the benefit of doubt, until he is proven false beyond any doubt, God can make this happen in a 24 hour period. He can do anything.
If Weinland and his wife are the two witnesses, what is the first order of business for Weinland as the spokesman for both witnesses? Many scholars argue that the first order of business is that there will not be any rain on the earth for 3 and one-half years. Weinland’s sequences of events are contained in 3 and one-half years. All prophecy is fulfilled in this time sequence, not 7 years like most scholars and theologians have concluded.
If Weinland is correct and he is God’s chosen one, then do you realize that most people would merely dismiss him as false prophet? The masses will not believe him; instead they will know him, because he is causing turmoil on the earth. Weinland is right that many will desire his death at the end of 3 and one-half years. The world will be watching for Weinland and his Wife’s resurrection via television, but will all of our electronics work throughout the world? I believe that Weinland says that there will be nuclear weapons detonated throughout the last 3 and one-half years in various locations around the world. So, I can only assume a portion of the population will witness this resurrection or have availability to do so. At the end of this 3 and one-half year, some people will witness the resurrection of the 2 witnesses and because they are so indoctrinated in their own beliefs of end-time events, they will assume that there is another 3 and one-half year period before the return of Christ. It is prophesized in Revelation that Christ will return like a thief in the night. Weinland’s sequence of events would provide such a scenario.
March 6th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Is there an internet gambling site where one may place bets on Weinland in order to re-coup losses from previous church affiliations ?
Jimmy, you seem to be quite familiar with the wcg of ye olde days. It pleases me to see ppl such as yourself, Ironwolf and others survive and come out the other end reasonably unscathed.
Found my first P.T. is 1971. I remember it had a large glossy picture of Richard Nixon on the cover. The rest is history and this isn’t an-ex wcg counselling site. OK I digress. Wont bore you all with a long winded rant, there’s others here much more capable.
I do find the predictions and dates set quite astonishing. The use of numerology, the “magic book” and other hocus pocus to determine such certainly isn’t a recent phenomenon. It has already been pointed out that much of Weinland’s fertiliser is a carbon copy of Armstrong and of course Armstrong borrowed heavily from others.
The use of impressive hard bound texts, magazines, tracts and nowadays the http://www. can be a powerful tool/weapon in preaching the gospel to all nations blah blah blah :/ One can only imagine what Herb’s personal blog would resemble. Thank god the world did end for Armstrong in 1986 ! Did anyone predict that one ? Oh, but there’s always another one ( or two witnesses ) lurking around the corner to take up the baton.
The suggestions in here that Weinland and his ilk may be implicated in performing an act of genocide are highly alarming… “and the 144,000 that are with him, we all are going to a part of that. We who are part of the 144,000, we are going to be part of helping destroy millions of people in one day”. I hope the authorities are keeping a watchful eye on Weinland’s movements.
And then there’s the other delusional aspect of god granting Weinland the choice of the fifth thunder. Weinland seems keen on seeing the death of many notable celebs and the ministry, whereas Jesus was here healing the sick, turning water into wine ( he obviously knew how to party ) and raising the dead on occasions. Which one would you invite over for dinner ?
Perhaps Weinland would make an ideal cell mate for Charlie manson.
Let’s all hope ( or pray ) that April 17th ….or is it now March 18th ? goes off with a whimper
March 6th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Weinland on many occasions said that the 2 witnesses will not be prophesying 1260 days in the Holy City of Jerusalem. Instead he commented that the 2 witnesses do not need to be in Jerusalem until the time of their own deaths. This is 3 and one-half days before Christ return. In Revelation 11:2
, it does explain that the 2 witnesses are in Jerusalem for 42 months or 3 and one-half years. This is contrary to what Weinland and some of his followers on this site have mentioned. I remember in one of Weinland’s sermons that it is not written anywhere in the bible that the 2 witnesses prophesize in Jerusalem for 3 and one-half years.
As I noted in the above post, Revelation 11:6
, describes the first order of business for the 2 witnesses. This is to shut heaven and not allow any rain to fall on the earth during the course of their prophecy (1260) days. So, starting 3 and one-half days before April 17, 2008, it should be noted that rain will stop falling on the earth, if Ron is God’s true witness. Watch your local meteorologist. Time is running out for Ron. He once published a brochure entitled “Time is running out.”
March 7th, 2008 at 4:36 am
Ironwolf
Just want to introduce myself and say it is a pleasure to meet you. I stumbled upon this site a few days ago, and needless to say I have done almost 0% working reading through it all.
If I can tell you a little about myself - I also grew up in a VERY religious institution. My father was the leader of our church, and I eneded up going to church 6 days a week. It was my whole life, and I was totally conditioned and indoctionated ito that way of life.
To cut a long story short, I broke away from the religion(was very difficult because of the disaproval of those I love), and started following my own way. I have found it difficult to explain to others why I feel the way I do, but your arguments and comments (esspecially on Page one of this mamoth blog) made it possible to at least explain it to myself. I would have loved to be a part of those discussions, but at least I get to join in from this point onwards. So once again - nice to meet you.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:19 am
Doug:
“Christ does not need these 144,000 to assist him in destroying approximately 200 million soldiers from China and Europe.”
Where to begin?
There are not approximately 200 million soldiers from China and Europe. Even if there were approximately 200 million soldiers IN China and Europe, guaranteed, they would not all be fighting for the same cause.
“The information is there and be cautious, because these are Weinland interpretations. Many scholars would argue that the events that Weinland proposes which will occur in one 24 hour period would be impossible. That’s why many people for housands of years have believed that there are 2 three and one-half year periods. But, giving Weinland the benefit of doubt, until he is proven false beyond any doubt, God can make this happen in a 24 hour period. He can do anything.”
So Weinland is saying the first trump will sound in 24 hours? On April 17th?
This is sounding worse and worse all the time…..
March 7th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Doug: You are right. The Bible DOES say that the two witnesses will be IN JERUSALEM for 3.5 years.
But Ron Weinland, who is following the Armstrongism suit to the “T,” is simply jumbling literal and figurative meanings of Scripture.
The two witnesses– if you simply read the text– would have to be IN JERUSALEM, for 3.5 years or their purpose would be pointless. And they will be FREE FROM HARM until 3.5 days before Christ comes. Very important point. Ron–in his twisted version of the Bible– is CHOOSING to change things around and has some plan of when HE feels the witnesses should go to Jerusalem.
Why, some ask?
1. He KNOWS he’s just in this to fleece his members. or
2. He doesn’t 100% believe his own claims. If Ronald Weinland went to Jerusalem and started to preach on the coming of Christ in the streets (which the witnesses are prophesied to do), he would certainly not be free from harm. If there is ANYWHERE on Earth that’s not safe to run the streets and preach the name of Jesus Christ– ISRAEL IS IT.
Ron also follows the BI suit as well–If what Ron Weinland says is true, then there would be no turmoil in the Middle East. Sure the US has problems, etc… but if anyone studies just a speck of economics, much of the financial woes in certain countries stem from the turmoil in ISRAEL…. the physcial place. But Ron twists things in order to steer his believers into believing that Israel means the “church” or a “spiritual” Israel. The Bible is not as much of a mystery as Ron Weinland makes it out to be.
If anyone would like to preach—come do so at http://thetruthalive.blogspot.com/
March 7th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Doug—further to your point about twenty-four hours: I’m not sure which sermon you’re getting that from, but there is nothing in “the final three and one half years” section of the book that indicates Weinland believes Armageddon will occur in twenty-four hours.
I predict the reCAPTCHA generator will be more accurate than Weinland. The phrase I got for this post was “date Jerusalem”.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Starman,
Welcome, and I’m glad you’re finding useful material here. If you’d like to discuss general religious matters not directly germane to Weinland, you’re welcome to e-mail me.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:46 am
“God can make this happen in a 24 hour period. He can do anything.”
Oh no. There is that ‘can’ word again. Added with his ‘if’ I’m a False Prophet statement he leaves himself a lot of space to explain away and come out looking like just a little ol ‘misguided’ prophet like as he said what Armstrong turned out to be. The decision has to be made sooner (better)
than later (bad) about deciding what he values the most: His money or his life! Decisions, decisions.
I think he should take his own medicine and ‘tribulate’ on that…
March 7th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Amen!
March 7th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I’m having a tough time convincing myself this Ronald guy is for real. He seems to have a hidden agenda. And I’ve never listened to this pope before, but I was wondering what we should expect him to say. (All religions join as one!)?? Probably not. (I am really an alien, but I’m a good alien, you are destroying yourselves, all religions join as one!)?? More believable… His website does say this is a historic event. I wonder if that means anything… Even though I am giving Ron very little chance of being who he says he is, I’m just trying to connect the dots like everyone else.
So if it rains during the 3 and 1/2 years, then he can’t be right, right? Is that the indicator anyone else is using?
March 7th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
BrainFart,
I have been reading and listening to Ronald’s interviews. We our about to find out if he for real, or if he is fake. He said in his most recent interview on his site that “If nothing happens in April, I am nothing more then a false Prophet!” Those are his own words. So, hang in there for one month, if nothing happens he will even admit that he is wrong. One month is not that much time either, so…be prepared just in case?
March 7th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Weinland Watch,
I will clarify my past post. This 24 hour period that I am referring to is September 29, 2011, not April 17, 2008. This period of time is the Feast of Trumpets which is on Thursday, September 29, 2011. Weinland describes that on this particular day, which is one 24 hour period all of those things that I mentioned in my previous post will occur. In Weinland’s first book, “The Prophesized End-time” on pp. 223-229 explains what will happen in this 24 hour period. This should help clear up what will occur on the Feast of Trumpets in 2011, according to Weinland’s timeline of events. Remember, Weinland believes that a Sabbath, which the Feast of Trumpets is an annual high day Sabbath is from sunset to sunset.
Furthermore, in Weinland’s first book he does address that 100’s of millions of people will die on this day. China and Europe can easily come up will a 200 million army. China does have approximately 1.6 Billion people. They currently have the world largest army. There are approximately 450 million who are not on active duty, but are reserves and trained for battle. China has a huge military.
and read “proof” in Ironwolf’s 2nd discussion post. Second Strike, Weinland and his wife (as the 2 witnesses) have stated many times that they will not be prophesying in Jerusalem for 1260 days. Revelation 11:2
states that they should indeed be prophesying in the Holy city for the duration of these days. Strike three can be left up to your imagination????? Your out – Weinland, game over!!!!! As I said in a previous post, the next order of business is for the 2 witnesses to withhold rain from falling on the earth throughout the duration of their prophecy (Revelation 11:6
). Watch, this is probably strike three!
I think we are all jumping to conclusions about Ron. There is definitely more strikes against him being a false prophet than a true prophet. First strike, how can he be the spokesman for both witnesses? This is not possible. Look at Deuteronomy 19:15
March 7th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Doug, I think you are trying to hard, like i said these things are going to start next month in April, it will be the begining of the end! Apparently. And just cause it says the Witnesses have the power to stop the rain, DOES NOT mean that they have to use it.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Anybody see the news on wall street today? The economy is crumbling, but don’t worry, Bush thinks the “Stimulus Package” is the answer. I need that money to pay off some debt damn it!
March 7th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Economy looks good from where I’m sitting (not in the US)…and Boston is predicting major rainstorms. Oh, wait, the tribulation hasn’t started yet.
To Doug: You appear to have stepped in a little late to the conversation: I am definitely not a Weinland “believer” although I’m following the sect closely, because I have a very bad feeling that some type of mass suicide event could potentially occur, amongst members of the Church of God Preparing for the Kingdom of God on April 17th or 18th, based on what Weinland has written, and what has been said in recent sermons.
As for preaching at me about the “annual Sabbaths” and the “biblical” length of a sabbath, spare me. I was a devout attendee of the Worldwide Church of God for almost twenty of my thirty-two years. I know all about the “annual Sabbaths” and what they are supposed to signify, especially the Feast of Trumpets.
Personally I’m more worried about the culture of death Weinland has been promoting to his members in the past few weeks, particularly so in his “45 Days to the 7th Seal” sermon. Weinland tells members it doesn’t matter if they die in a week, a month, or three and a half days before the end, they’ll still be in the first resurrection.
Couple that with the concept that Weinland believes the 144K (including the “few remaining alive today”) have “completed their training” to be Old Testament overlords in the Kingdom of God, and I believe that we may be looking at a potentially very, very bad scenario, come April 17th, or the evening of the 18th, which is when CoG-PKG members will be keeping Passover.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Pleasure paying for your defense wherever you are!!
March 7th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
You didn’t notice the “potentially” and “may be” and all the other qualifiers in that post?
March 7th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Sorry for asking this, i know Weinland say this happens in April, but i dont remember exeactly what he is predicting…is it a market crash? or a nuke?something else?
March 7th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Weinland Watch,
Didn’t you ask for clarification on the 24 hour time period that I described in one of my post above? Didn’t you write the following:
“Doug—further to your point about twenty-four hours: I’m not sure which sermon you’re getting that from, but there is nothing in “the final three and one half years” section of the book that indicates Weinland believes Armageddon will occur in twenty-four hours.”
I gave you an additional reference on where Weinland talked about Armageddon occuring in 24 hours. This was in Weinland’s first book, “The Prophesized End-time” on pp. 223-229.
From your response, I get the feeling that you believe that you were personally attacked. This was not my intention, but to clarify and provide additional information for those who may not understand that the “Sabbath and Annual Holy days” were from sunset to sunset. This was important because others may not realize that on September 29, 2011, if we make it that far, Weinland states that he is resurrected from the street of Jerusalem in the beginning part of that day, which is actually Wednesday the 28th of September. Many people who have never shared our past (concerning our knowledge of the WCG) and are either reading or replying to this blog may not have this knowledge. So, it was only my intention to share knowledge. Some of us could take this knowledge for grant it, but others may need this knowledge in order to understand. I hope this makes sense.
But, to attack me and sarcastically make a comment that, “You appear to have stepped in a little late to the conversation: I am definitely not a Weinland “believer” although I’m following the sect closely” Am I welcome? I never thought you were a believer from the beginning. That is quite apparent in your responses, but I was just providing some clarification and you become upset.
Magisto,
Good point!
You are absolutely right concerning Revelation 11:6
. In your last post you wrote the following: “And just cause it says the Witnesses have the power to stop the rain, DOES NOT mean that they have to use it.”
I had made a statement that the 2 witnesses would stop the rain for the whole duration. This is wrong. I stand corrected. The 2 witnesses could stop and start the rain at anytime during their prophecy. This is a prime example of how we can misinterpret scripture. Weinland appear to do this quite often.
March 7th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Magisto,
I believe that Weinland said that the first Trumpet of the 7th seal will begin on April 17, 2008 (Revelation 8:7
). This trumpet has to do with the destruction of vegetation on the earth. If Weinland had his way, I am sure it would primarily be in the US, Canada, UK, and Australia.
In various sermons he does predict a market crash and the destruction of the US economy, but has never given a specific date other than it will definately occur by the end of 2008. Weinland’s favorite quote, “The US will not have another president take office.” For this to happen, the economy and the government of the US would have collasped. As far as nuclear weapons, Weinland has said that they will be detonated in various locations all around the world in the next 3 and one-half years. Weinland has not given any specific date for a detonation of a nuclear weapon. Weinland leaves us all in suspense and provides us with limited details.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Doug,
My apologies. I had you confused with one of the other posters (Paul, I think). I did not take your post as a personal attack, and I hope you did not take my response as one either. I did not understand you were referring (in your first post) to the 2011 date, as you correctly informed me in your second post.
You are correct, there are some reading who might not understand what a sabbath means, or what the annual sabbaths were (I confess I thought you were one of Weinland’s followers, which is why I may have jumped a little more harshly than I should have). It’s easy to forget, sometimes, that hardly anyone is aware of the actual mechanics of the church itself, and how we practiced.
Again, I’m sorry if I mis-interpreted what you were saying, I hope you don’t think that I was attacking you personally, I really wasn’t.
You are correct about Weinland giving himself lots of “wiggle room” at least in regards to what he says publicly. As for the “predictions” in the book, the events of the seventh seal sound a lot more literal and deadly (The first trumpet, on April 17th, is said to be made of fire mingled with blood, and will result in the deaths of tens of thousands of people, according to Weinland), than his followers’ assertions early on in this thread, that the events of March 18th/April 17th will be of a more “spiritual” nature, a re-gathering of “the scattered flock”.
As with all cults, cutting through the doublespeak seems to be the key. I