If Ron Weinland is to be believed, it’s about 35 days until all hell breaks loose. The saga (and the conversation) continues!
See Part 5 for the FAQ, and see Part 1 for basic info and links.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
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March 13th, 2008 at 9:13 am
“Regarding what’s going to happen when, nothing too dramatic sounds scheduled for March 18 - just the beginning to the Unification of the scattered CoGs (under Ron of course) as Satan shifts his attention to the Religious Leader.”
I daresay the members of the scattered CoGs would find that dramatic! Never mind the fact that each splinter is its very own cult of personality, and that bringing them all under Weinland’s dominion would be about as successful (and productive) as herding cats.
So, if “the scattered church” is not unified by the time of the great tribulation (April 17th), is this what Weinland is going to use as his “escape clause” to say “the church wasn’t ready”, the same way Armstrong did at the Feast of Tabernacles in 1972? (Remember, the church was supposed to be fleeing in 1975.)
Would any of Weinland’s followers like to comment on this statement from pp. 23 of 2008: God’s Final Witness?
“…and the world will be shocked and in horror on the day that the Seventh Seal is opened.”
What exactly is this supposed to mean? If the events of the Seventh Seal are the re-unification of the scattered splinters of the WCG, why will the world be “shocked and in horror”? Most of “the world” has never even heard of Armstrong, as shocking as that sounds to members (and ex-members).
Also, the final three thunders have yet to sound at all never mind so loudly that no one will be able to refute them:
1. Rod Meredith is still alive. (Fifth Thunder)
2. The US has not recognized Weinland as one of the two witnesses from the book of Revelation. (Sixth Thunder)
3. No one who currently believes in trinitarianism is rejecting it whole cloth. (I believe this is what the book is saying is the Seventh Thunder, although Weinland is extremely vague on what the Seventh Thunder is supposed to be.)
Comments?
March 13th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Has anyone ever heard/read R.W. making reference to the Mayan calendar timeline of events, in support of his claims?
March 13th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Maybe the shock and the horror is supposed to be the worlds reaction to Weinland announcing to be God’s End-Time Prophet and that Christianity is all wrong.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:09 am
I’m rarely inclined to agree with WW, but he’s got a point there.
Weinland is almost guaranteed to get at least a couple ex-members recruited during the “30 days of silence in Heaven” and to latch onto that as the start of the Unification (it doesn’t need to be complete by April 17, but Sept 30 2011 - always with the wiggle room)
Regarding “the day the Seventh Seal is opened” you’ve got him there - if his words are the inspired message from God, something pretty shocking has got to happen on that day too then, or he’s false (or at best grossly in error).
He could just try to brush it off and say he meant the 1st trumpet (the “real start” of the 7th Seal) but then the pope better start biting the heads off bats to be that horrific to the world.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:15 am
To be real picky, while checking to context of that quote (p. 23) I notice he also says that from the opening of the 7th Seal it will be 3 1/2 years ’till the return of Christ - which is a slightly different timing than his current story of 3 1/2 years from the 1st Trumpet.
It’s only 30 days, but his inconsistencies are starting to catch up with him.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Don’t forget the thirty days are supposed to be “the half hour of silence in heaven” from Rev. 8:1
.
Seeing as how none of the final three thunders have “sounded” before the seventh seal is opened (as the book states they must be), that’s a bigger inconsistency than the thirty days mentioned above.
There are only five days left, and none of the three thunders I’ve quoted above have come to pass at all, never mind gotten any louder.
Would any of Weinland’s followers (ClaireUK particularly) like to address the fact that the final three thunders are not getting any louder, and there are only five days to go, before the opening of the seventh seal?
Also, please explicate clearly for us, exactly what the seventh thunder is supposed to be. (The fifth and sixth thunders have definitely not come to pass, as “prophesied”.)
To answer Sue’s question, no, the Mayan calendar is not being used by Weinland at all: That theology is regarded as “pagan” in Church of God terms. (As is Messianic Judaism, which Weinland claimed in his March 1 sermon was just as pagan as “traditional christianity”.)
March 13th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Looks like Rons believers have left as they cant answer the questions posed as we get closer to April 17th..The lack of rumblings etc…also there is no room for error!..A prophet doesnt make mistakes…This is really starting to shape up as a joke..But with 35 days left..and yes not 90 or 120 days,only 35 days we will have our answer…Lets hope Ron is a Loonie,and this passes over…
March 13th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Just stopped by to see what everyone is talking about today in regards to Ronald Weinland. All of this has made me dust off my copies of works relating to British-Israelism, which, if we all sit back and look at, is the cornerstone of what Weinland teaches.
BI would have to be 100% true in order for Weinland to be what he says he is and for his predictions to come true–which as the days tick by– are simply not going down AT ALL like his books say they will.
5 days until the “seventh seal!” (or perhaps the seventh “steal (ing)”)
Anyway, I think everyone who does not know EXACTLY what British-Israelism is, should understand it.
I am limited in words here, so I have included a little piece on BI at:
http://thetruthalive.blogspot.com
March 13th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Nothing about the Mayan prophecy, but he did make some reference to the Muslim’s prophecy regarding Mahdi’s army.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
In one interview someone explicitly asked about the Mayan calendar and he said that they were informed by demons - the demons know God’s plan, but they’re out a year (hence it ending it Dec. 21 2012).
Actually, the Mayans were informed by astrological movements: there’s a big alignment of the I believe the sun, moon, earth, mars, venus, saturn and jupiter, or something to that effect, on that day. Or so the Discovery Channel tells me.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
I think it would be much sweeter for all to just hear RW admit to all that he is not the prophet. No need to attack anyone who he has “brainwashed” or anything like that. He has stated that he will admit it if he is wrong. But if he is wrong then he would have been lying about everything which means he could also be lying about anouncing he is not the prophet. So don’t hold him to his word on anything I guess is the point i’ve concluded.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
I think you need to come up with a better word than “Brainwashed” bainfart. You cant claim such thing when you don’t really know. If you need to see to believe that is your own fault. “The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”.
-H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
March 13th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
That’s why I wrote it “brainwashed”. So I could use it loosely and you can enter your own word in for it.
I think I found a politically correct Democrat. One who would rather attack the use of a word than actually get to the bottom of an issue.
And as far as the rest of your post goes, is this not what this whole site is about. “Witnessing with our own eyes” the end of the world. Should I just assume the world has ended in 3 1/2 years even if it hasn’t?
And as far as making assumptions about me, which it sounds like you are, I included in my first post on this site what I beleive. It sounded like: “I pray. Nothing more. No church affiliation.”
If there is enough evidence to get me to assume RW is the prophet, I will have no trouble believing him. But right now I would have to say he seems to be making himself look foolish. As well as the people defending him.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Paul Said:
…But with 35 days left..and yes not 90 or 120 days,only 35 days we will have our answer…Lets hope Ron is a Loonie,and this passes over…
And what will we discuss after 35 days has passed?
I like this blog. I like to read the different meanings and believings. I like to view inside this blog cause this is a vivid source of searching the truth. So if April 18th will pass, and as I believe nothing curios will be happen on earth, I hope Robert wont close this blog.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
I’ve read all six pages of this blog. I have to say I enjoyed them all. I have read RW’S latest book and listened to most of his interviews. Years ago in 1975 or so I read Hal Lindsey’s The Late Great Planet Earth and have been interested in the end times ever since. I must observe that the Pope coming to the USA in mid-April at minimum is very interesting. In general I have to agree with RW that mankind is a total failure.
That said I don’t know what to make of RW’S predictions. His time frame does match many of the end times information that coincides with what I believe. As we all know we don’t have long to wait. Keep your eye to the sky!
March 13th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Brainfart, I made the assumtion because you used “Brainwashed”
And you are right concerning the rest of my post. We are all waiting to see with our eyes what is going to happen. But, what you are saying is that individuals are brainwashed if we believe it will happen before it does? If you want me to pick out a better word i will… “Believers” brainwashed just seemed really 1984 Big Brother to me.
March 13th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
WW, I read that the 5th thunder was one of “RW’s own choosing”. Maybe that is why they are behind in happening. Or maybe it was a silent thunder. I keep wondering what he means “of his own choosing”. Or maybe that the “Church is not ready to be the bride of Christ”. Isn’t that what the reason was before in WCG that was given when prophecy did not come to pass as expected - then a big push for offerings to get “back on track”.
March 13th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Hi all, this is my first post, I have been reading everyones comments, and I just finished reading Ron’s two books. Very interesting and I must say very scary too. I have been praying about all of this, praying that our Lord and Saviour would reveal the truth to me soon, because I am having a hard time believing what Ron is saying, can’t explain why, it is just something inside me that tells me “no” don’t fall for this. Anyway, I just wanted to shed some light on something that struck me as odd, as I understood it in the book, he says that the day Jesus comes, every one will see him meaning (Ron) and the 2nd witness rise from death after being dead in the streets for 3 days by way of TV. How can that be, as by that time the world will be so destroyed, I dought that there would be any reception or TV’s even left in the world to watch, not to mention that whoever is even still alive by then would probably be more in just survivel mode probably close to starvation and worse, than watching TV mode. Just a thought……………
March 13th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
This might be irrelivant or already widely known, but does everybody know that the last pope said that evolution is compatible with Catholicism? That seems very strange to me. Anybody want to comment on this?
March 13th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
mcrose, I posted the same thought in one of the earlier pages. I have wondered myself who would even be around to watch television let alone report the news if such horrific events would be taking place and most of the population of the Earth would be dead. Would there even be electricity in most places????
March 13th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Hello all. One major sign for me indicating we are possibly in the end times is the constant improvement in technology. I believe RW said God held back the knowledge from mankind only to release same in the end times. I’m no expert but the advances in technology are amazing! Ad China’s two hundred million man army and Russia back as a super power and….. I see a dark cloud coming. RW might not be one of the two final witnesses but he could be right about this being the end times.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
My first thought was that TV would be pretty useless by the end of 3.5years also. But then there is a lot of TV infrastructure out there and it doesn’t take much to send out a basic public service broadcast. I seem to recall it took a hell of lot of bombs on Bagdad to shutdown their TV transmitter during the Iraq invasion. And despite the horror of WWII, there was still widescale radio coverage. According to Ron, at the very least at the end, there will be a functioning China/Russia and united europe capable of waging the ultimate high-tech destruction on the planet. So, you might imagine, they would still have the capability to maintain state run TV services. Also, Weinland talks about Europe invading the USA to restore law and order after it is taken out with nukes and whatever. I imagine one of their priorities would be to restore limited TV as a public service to try and pass on information to those left alive.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Gooseman,
Please keep in mind that Christians have generally felt that we are living in the “end times” for almost 2000 years. The “return of Jesus” is basically a collosal failed prophecy over which Christians remain in denial.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Ironwolf -
as someone mentioned earlier, I was wondering at what point you’re going to call the book closed on our case study here and give your final thoughts?
April 17th or shortly thereafter? Or just wait and see what happens?
March 13th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Ironwolf,
I can’t argue with you over the 2000 years of end time predictions. One
thing they have always been is wrong. But what about the hope of a God
finally ending the failed experiment that is the human race.
I have come to hate the humans ( including the same behaviors I display).
It may be a fantasy sequence but I’m hoping God has had enough. Peace.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:29 am
I was thinking the same thing myself how many years has it looked like the last days but then again never in my life have I felt tapped on the shoulder and shown things and had a urgent feeling things are coming to an end all I ever thought about was myself!
I had God pushed into the back of my mind most of my life I was raised with all the religeous rubbish and catholic church and it was just dead in me im 35 but one day something happened that i cant explain and then another thing then another its been constant things happening over the last 2 years and I know it was God the creator of everything around us. I know the bibe is a key because I would pray and ask questions I had so much questions and so much struggling to understand things and I would ask and a bible verse would come into my head and bam it was an exact anser (and I didnt knw or even own a bible). Iv had things heal instantly on me and in my family and strange things like dreams about things happening before it happens as a warning.Iv felt God very close to me.
So anyway I look around at nature and I think how much more is God than us I mean not only could God create the most beutifull things like Lions, butterflies but God could also put life into them how could we humans ever figure that out so God must be so much more intellegent and advance than us!!!
When the bible says fear God I know what fear of God means now its not being terrified its an awe thing like when you have alot of respect for someone sort of its respect of the highest kind.
But I look around at so much hypocrocy! I mean how can religeous people say one thing about love and stuff and then blaspheme God in such hideous ways and preach love and believe something hatefull within them? I went online and looked at all the religeons out there and Im still struggling but one thing about weinland is that he is teaching with a good attitude about humans in general and how God does care about us all and wants to be fair to everyone and it does make sence how man has been given 6000 years to do it their way and now God is going to intervene so even though I find his books confusing and strange and I think what? yeah right! half the time ,I think his basic message is Ok and time will tell if hes for real or not I think if he was like the man of sin described in the bible or false witness he would be one of those hell preaching powertripping phonies not some humble person like him who most people are laughing at anyway!!
March 14th, 2008 at 6:15 am
Hi all,
This is my first post. I have been reading RW’s books but, have not finished. I just want to say, I definitely agree with Gooseman. Within the last few years I have noticed the lack of respect and “me me me” attitude of humans and have said to myself, God just needs to wipe us all off the face of this earth. It is unfortunate that those few good apples are corrupted by the many bad ones. Or, there could be many good ones that are corrupted by the few bad ones. I would like to think I am a good person but, I have had to catch myself many a time changing into someone I definitely hate. Anyway, I don’t want to agree with RW because I am still scared of dying (although, I felt a little better after the great news of the 2nd resurrection) but, in some way I think he just might be right. It kind of feels like the right time, give or take a few months…or years.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:24 am
karina, I find your last post very uplifting. I truely believe that God is listening to our prayers and answering them. I too have had too many experiences in my life and too many prayers answered to ever deny that God is with me. The problem with Weinland is that he doesn’t believe(from what I gather, maybe I’m misunderstanding) that we have any favor from God and that He is only working with the people in Weinland’s church. I believe that God loves all mankind and wants us to turn to him. I think about all of “Traditional Christians” out there in the world, as Weinland calls them. People who are praying and praising God, who have given their lives to the Lord and believe that Jesus is their Savior. Would a loving God turn his back on these people? If by no fault of their own they were lied to by traditional churches. Would God hold that against them? The people who believe with all of their hearts that they are serving God. Would Jesus not have mercy on them or would he turn his back and not listen because they are not a part of Weinland’s sect? Someone correct me if I am wrong but that is how Weinland makes it sound and that doesn’t make sense to me.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:27 am
Whoops, my proof reading is bad. I meant to say above that Weinland teaches that we DONT have any favor with God if we don’t belong to his church.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:51 am
My first post:
I have siblings in RW church.
We were all raised in WCG.
I have siblings in various other splinter groups (large family)
I asked the sibling in RW church what will they do if his is NOT a prophet and his prophecies are found to be false. They replied they will GIVE UP on all religion. They will no longer trust ANY religious leaders.
It makes me wonder what God will do with these “leaders” who make predictions, prophecies and cause people to stumble so much.
I read RW’s latest book. He says MORE than once that things will happen exactly as he predicts or he is a false prophet. I hold him to that. If the 2 presenters from LCG are not dead (and other prominant “so called” religious leaders from other religions)…in the next 3 1/2 years…he is false. If the US is not “taken over” by foreign gov’t and our econemy is not crashed in the next 3 1/2 years…and others…he is false.
I have NOT read all prior pages to this blog, but I’ve read many from each page as I’ve followed it.
FOR YOU members and believers in RW….WHAT will YOU do if he is found to be false? Continue the Armstrong path with a different splinter? Quit believing Man religious leaders altogether? Have faith in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in yourselves? Who will be your spiritual guide?
By the way, I don’t want this post to sound angry, I’m not, I’m curious as to the reactions of members and believers in RW.
Banncam
March 14th, 2008 at 7:52 am
Christina Hi, I totaly agree with you!! Our God, is a loving God, and he Loves each and everyone, despite our human dicracefullness, we all fall way short deserving anything from him, and I believe that is why he sent himself in human form (Jesus) to save us. I believe that if we pray to him for our salvation that he will grant it, if we truley are sincere in our hearts, no matter what religion we are raised in. So, I feel that all this antilizing is frutal and none of us knows his plan for sure, because our human minds couldn’t begin to comprehend it anyway . We just need to trust in him by faith, and Love him, and all will be OK. I feel that all religons will be recognized, as long as the people’s hearts are sincere and Love him. So I am going to stop being afraid, and just turn it all over to him. I will also read the Bible more pray more and try to be a better person, I also need to do a lot of forgiving to those in my life that have treated me wrong, and love them, as Jesus did when he was crusified. If Ron is wrong, I pray for him, and forgive him for decieving so many. If it turns out he is right, well then, what will be will be. I am not going to worry about this anymore. It’s in God’s hands, we are not meant to know till he wants us to, and when he wants us to know we will know with NO uncertanty. GOD BLESS each and every one of us.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:54 am
I should say, I’m curious to the reactions of RW followers if he is found to be false…
March 14th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Banncam:
The first thing that I would tell your siblings is that if they want to be spiritual…. to have faith in God, not a religious leader. There isn’t anyone man on this Earth, according the Bible, that’s worthy of putting any faith in…. Christ taught that. Sure, many folks go to church and listen to very powerful preachers and pastors… and the ministers that TRULY understand the Bible– never take credit for anything To God goes all authority and praise.. not man… that’s not what ministers are supposed to do.
But cult leaders get people to surrender all authority to THEM. If you were in the WCG, then you know fully well that HERBERT ARMSTRONG was your god. HE told everyone in that organization WHAT to believe.
And for the religious leaders dying… you aren’t going to have to wait until 3 1/2 years. Weinland said Roderick Meredith would DIE before the 7th seal was opened, which according to RW is NEXT TUESDAY.
I hope your friends can find some peace. If they are former WWCG members, then they may need some professional help to reprogram their minds. I am not saying to preach to them to get into a orthodox Christian sect, but just to show them that Ron is false.
The cornerstone of RW’s teaching is British-Israelism, (just like HWA).
Show them all you can on why BI is false. Start here:
http://thetruthalive.blogspot.com
March 14th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Hey Thanks!
I read the book, but I couldn’t figure out if RW meant the thunders were simultanius to the 3 1/2 years of tribulation or what….
Thanks for that info. I’ll look that up in the book again to verify it myself.
Banncam
March 14th, 2008 at 8:32 am
Here are some interesting “quotes”
I’ll tell you at the End of the post who said them…..
We shall not have to wait much longer to know! IT’S LATER THAN YOU THINK!
Yes, THE KINGDOM OF GOD is now NEAR AT HAND!
But again, I repeat-IT’S LATER THAN YOU THINK!
Will any one of you who now read this warning awaken to the stern reality?
Do you foolishly and carelessly assume He meant somebody else? Our booklet “U.S. and Britain in PROPHECY” proves He meant US. We are the nations that are HATED by all other nations today-or hadn’t you realized that alarming fact?
Jesus Christ meant US-and His words are as certain and sure as the rising and setting of the sun!
Yes, time is running out on us, last, and we’re too sound asleep in deception to realize it!
Along with the coming famine and disease epidemic will come an invasion of billions of crop-destroying bugs, insects, and locusts (grasshoppers) on a scale never before to devastate a land. You’ll read of this in the first chapter of Joel.
All this is now only a few years off. WHEN we are stricken with the greatest national tragedy event to befall a nation-people dying in nearly every home-your loved ones-perhaps your children, or your parents, and scores of your close friends - perhaps even YOURSELF dying in this calamity, and the nation’s economic prosperity suddenly tail-spinning into its lowest ebb of depression, then the Nazi-Fascist colossus will strike its hydrogen-bomb blows-and another third of our populations will be killed-our major cities and industrial centers destroyed.
I know this is not pleasant to contemplate! I know well, too, that it won’t be believed by more than a few. I know only too well that our proud and stiff-necked nations will heedlessly refuse to take WARNING! But also I know that these prophecies are as certain as tomorrow’s sun-unless our nations do heed God’s warnings, repent and turn from their established ways and customs and return to ALMIGHTY GOD and HIS LAWS and WAYS!
THINK OF IT! Unbelievable? Preposterous? No, IT’S Real–very soon,–of this very present generation-of all people you know now-ONLY ONE THIRD of them will be left alive!
Your immediate future is of your own choosing. You can take this lightly, let it slip from mind, allow yourself once again to be absorbed in the mechanics of today’s complex society that you put this out of mind. If you do, you have now read YOUR FATE–and I say to you on authority of God Almighty that it is absolutely SURE!
Or, you may heed the warning, realize the truth — that there already have occurred in the world sufficient happenings to verify the REALITY of God’s prophecies–and REPENT NOW before it is too late. If you DO turn to d God by forsaking your way and this world’s ways through Jesus Christ as personal Saviour–if you DO then overcome, study the Bible continually to let it correct and reprove and instruct YOU–living by EVERY WORD OF GOD, rather than by the ways and customs of society-if you pray earnestly and continually, drawing closer and closer to GOD, and endure in this wonderful new life, you shall be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these terrifying things soon to befall the world. (Luke 21:36
).
ALL of these are direct quotes from a booklet called 1975 in Prophecy by HW Armstrong.
After ready RW book, you could also just exchange his name as the author.
http://cgca.net/pabco/1975pro.htm
1975
in Prophecy!
By HERBERT W. ARMSTRONG
1st Edition - June, 1956
Source:
March 14th, 2008 at 8:37 am
I already believed ONE end time prophet.
Made LIFE decisions because of the prophecies…which DID NOT occur…
Now I have a nephew quitting college because RW prophecies make it not worth while to pay for a college education. What will he do if these prophecies are false as HWA’s were???
It can really be depressing. I’ve got to get to work….
Banncam
March 14th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Renton,
I think it will depend mostly on what happens. It may also be heavily weighted by how much more misanthropic bleating from the “Oh- how- humanity- sucks- I- wish- God- would- squish- us- like- the- bugs- we- are” crowd I can take.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Gooseman,
“Peace.” Oh, the irony.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Karina,
This would be more on-topic in the recently-started Religious Experience thread.
Oh great, the All Things Bright and Beautiful argument.
Now let’s focus on Weinland. There are plenty of other places for personal religious testimony on the intarwebs.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Banncam, Oh how sad for your nephew to base his future education on what RW says. I for one will pray for him, and I am sure others will too. Oh my, see what this man is doing to people? Have faith that God will soon intervene. God Bless you and your nephew.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Whether or not Ronald Weinland is who he says he is, as we all know, will be proved very shortly. However, I think that we can profit from these false prophets. As Banncam said, ” I already believed ONE end time prophet. Made LIFE decisions because of the prophecies…which DID NOT occur…”; perhaps the more these guys come and go, people will see the fallacy of religion. Furthermore( I don’t mean this to be negative but rather a statement of sincerity,and if this quote is taken to much out of context I apologize, and disregard), as Jim Hagerty stated, “But cult leaders get people to surrender all authority to THEM.” This statement can also be applied to so-called gods, and I am not an atheist. We can learn a lot from Ronald Weinland. Please remember that if things happen as Weinland says they will, be careful in believing he is who he says he is; there other forces at work in this world.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Banncam,
My hope is that the blatant failures of people like Weinland will give people pause to do what I did in the late 90’s: completely rethink my stance on religion in general. This is why I use my blog to highlight people like Weinland, and Yisrayl Hawkins, and Ahmad Nishitoba.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Banncam - good to have your input.
At the risk of getting totally off topic, as Jim says, the cornerstone of HWA and RW is British Israelism. Weinland even recommends reading US and Britain in Prophecy. Here are some of my favorite “highlights” so far:
Remembering this was written in 1967, p xii: “The events prophesied to strike American and British peoples in the next few years are SURE!”
p 3: “An exciting, pulsating, vital third of all the Bible is devoted to prophecy. Approximately 90 percent of all prophecy pertains to OUR TIME, now, in this latter half of the twentieth century! (italics mine)
There are countless such gems - you’d think Fluery would have updated recent printings to be distributed in this century.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Banncam, I am very sorry that your nephew is squandering his education. There were a few in my generation (myself included) who were actively discouraged from going on to higher education because it was too expensive (couldn’t afford it from all the tithing), and because of the anti-intellectualism that was extremely pronounced in some families (especially in mine).
As for the follower who stated the fifth thunder was of Weinland’s own choosing, check out his Interview Comments page. The following quote near the bottom seems to have indicated that Weinland has already “chosen” what he wants the fifth thunder to be:
“As the leader of the Living Church of God, Roderick Meredith is mentioned as one of many ministers who will die as a result of the prophesied Fifth Thunder.”
The book 2008: God’s Final Witness clearly states that the seven thunders will be sounding so loudly before the seventh seal is opened that no one will be able to deny them. The first four thunders were prophecy after the fact, and the remaining three thunders have not sounded at all, never mind so loudly no one can deny them.
Four days to go. I think we can definitively declare Weinland a false prophet long before Armageddon is supposed to get here. We’ll know for certain by Tuesday, if Meredith isn’t dead, and the US hasn’t declared Weinland and wife the two witnesses. And if the various Church of God splinters have not re-unified, nor made any efforts to do so at all, never mind under Weinland’s banner.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Banncam:
If your nephew is going to drop out of school because of what Weinland says– then I think you need to have a SERIOUS talk with him. This is why sects like Weinland’s are horrible. I don’t know if your nephew knows this but I am sure you do…. tell him about the COUNTLESS people that followed Armstrong that lost:
1. Health
2. Money—retirement accounts
3. Jobs
4. Family Members including spouses
5. Homes
You name it. This is a great opportunity for you to sit down and explain to this young man that YOU KNOW because YOU LIVED IT. It sounds like you may be already doing this.
There could be some dangerous consequences to this… and truthfully.. I would rather see your nephew believed in NO God then follow this kind of crap. At least atheists aren’t polluting their minds with false religious doctrines!
March 14th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Ironwolf,
I would assume you missed the tongue in cheek “Peace”. There will be no peace on this earth as long as man is in charge. I really believe that is why so many people hope for a better day via God’s control. If the book of revelations is true it provides hope and “peace” for all mankind. Giving the benefit of dought at this time to RW. Peace out.
March 14th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Christina,
The fact that you can catch yourself means you are one of the good guys. People just don’t like hearing that humans are corrupt ( all of us on some level). What a beautiful day it will be when God changes all that. Like you said. You don’t want RW to be right, but it feels like the right time. I agree. Take care.
March 14th, 2008 at 10:56 am
I (and my college age children) try to talk about RW with my sibling & nephew. But if you’ve ever been a member of WCG (or splinter), you know there is NO discussing it. They will NOT believe you could be right. It is too frightening to believe you’ve been wrong all your life. It is too frightening to consider your parents were wrong. (My father is a leader in one of the “other” splinters.)
If you’ve ever been in WCG you cling to the Sabbath and Holy Days as flags of your salvation. You cannot let it go, you’ve got to be in the 1st resurrection. Anyone who doesn’t keep a Saturday Sabbath and Holy Days is decieved…YOU DON’T ever consider what a decieved person is saying.
Anyone that tries to discuss anything else is considered a “so called” Christian.
The discussion goes down so many different paths and directions that the disucssion cannot stay on “task”.
I’m hoping that once the prophecies fail….my family will be open to discussion.
But…NO ONE in my family left WCG when 1975 in Prophecy failed to be true…
Today, MANY people in the splinter groups don’t even know HWA made these predictions (prophecies) that ended up being false!!
It’s frustrating because unfortunately in MY life….a false prophet came and went….now here is another one…which part of my family is following again…
What does history show me? They will continue to follow him if/when the prophecies are found to be false. The excuses will begin…
And so on we go…
Banncam
March 14th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Gooseman,
Tongue in cheek? Exactly. As an apocalyptic Christian, you don’t want peace: you want Jesus the Superhero to return with a sword to slay all who have opposed him, and then torture them for all eternity! Nice guy, yeah. Hope you enjoy your “peace” while I’m burning in hell.
It is this sort of fatalistic, misanthropic bullshit that makes me so angry at what religion in general, and Christians specifically, do to our world. Rather than work to make what we have better now, you sit back and hope and pray and even work to help the world go to hell as fast as possible. Now, if you’re all wrong— and I think there’s ample evidence that you are— then you’re all agents of an ultimately dehumanizing and destructive self-fulfilling prophecy: the ultimate unwitting nihilists.
March 14th, 2008 at 11:34 am
There may be a window of opportunity to speak with your family members between March 18th (the opening of the seventh seal) and the start of the great tribulation (April 17th), Banncam: In his Mar. 1 sermon, Weinland urged members to start pushing the books and the church onto family members (the CoG-PKG believes, rightly or wrongly, they might get a couple thousand “converts” out of this), and they might possibly be handing out cards to the general populace as well.
This will be an opportunity for many to try and get Weinland’s followers talking about what, exactly, it is that they believe. Instead of being confrontational and negative, people should just ask non-judgemental questions, and keep Weinland’s followers talking as long as you can.
Eventually, the extremely fragile house of cards that is Weinland’s theology has got to fall, or at the very least a seed of doubt may be planted in the believer’s mind, when they are unable to conclusively “prove” Weinland’s prophecies to others……..which means they will have to start thinking about those prophecies themselves, long before whatever Weinland has planned for Passover happens or doesn’t.
Best of luck Banncam, and I hope March 18th - April 17th proves to be a window of opportunity for you to assist your family members in exiting the organization.
March 14th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Banncam,
I just want to say I’m really sorry for what you had to go through. That really sucks. That being said…
…I’ve just revealed to myself that I don’t believe any of this “compassionate” God stuff. only partly for the reasons people give on here such as; history has shown EVERY end-time prophet to be fase, I believe in God (the God Einstein believed in)-one who must have created the beginning of time and space (not saying evolution is out of question). TIME AND SPACE ARE INFINITE, why would a God who has created all of that concern himself with this tiny little planet? I believe in “God-Mind” which is spiritual and it connects time and space (WE ONLY USE 10% OF OUR BRAINS, WE ARE STUPID COMPARED TO WHAT WE HAE THE POTENTIAL TO DO-BUT WE ARE PROGRAMMED FROM BIRTH TO DEATH-SOME MORE HEAVILY THAN OTHERS)-It’s the world pulled over our eyes to keep us from seeing any truth- Which I believe is ugly and beautiful-It’s anything and everything. I believe when we die, we are no longer stuck in our “human” bodies, but we never stop “being”. Whatever you want in the afterlife is out there. If you want heaven, there is heaven, if you want hell, there is hell, but what you get is whatever you want!!!!!!!
Is there anyway anybody could say they wouldn’t want this?!
March 14th, 2008 at 11:46 am
This appeal to you Ironwolf?
March 14th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Brainfart,
Appeal to me? Sure, in a way. What’s your evidence?
March 14th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
I guess I’m going to have to “resort” to listening to RW’s interviews or lectures because when I do talk to my family, I want “dates” from specific messages to bring up in the conversation. Such as… On a certain date he said this would happen, it did not..
My family did ask me to read his literature and they have about 50 of them scattered around their home for us to “pick up” on our way out from a visit, but I refused to read the book originally. I only downloaded it this past weekend and finally read it. After someone who knows my family well, told me I’d better…
I have also refused to listen to his speaking too, but I guess I’ll do it.
A few years ago, to show love, I did attend ONE day of the FEAST of Tabernacles when RW was there speaking.
Basically the WHOLE message was how smart and quick thinking he was in “dodging” the barbs and traps of the “so called” Christian radio interviewers. He was beside himself with excitement at all he had accomplished while placed “on the spot” with live radio. There were a few scriptures looked at of course, but basically it was a “love fest” with himself while everyone in the audience sighed and coo’d over him.
After church was over and our family was alone, they were looking at me expectantly on my thoughts. I just agreed that he is smart to be so quick thinking with his answers, but the message as a whole was all about “his accomplishments” which had nothing to do with me. They were puzzled by my response but I think deep down they sort of agreed. I believe they just give him a “pass” on that stuff, just like American’s give “famous athletes” and “film/tv stars” a pass.
It’s all so frustrating. But I love my family and so I hope they aren’t given “poison wine” at Passover to expedite some “vision or truth” God gave RW.
Banncam
March 14th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Not much of anything… But what about people who can talk to the dead? and people who can talk to animals? I suppose you think they’re as whacky as RW right? Well either way, all you have to do is keep doin what your doin, except stay out of mainstream culture. (I hear that doesn’t help). In the end (when your dead), you can go anywhere you want. You’re already an atheist, what evidence do you need?
March 14th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
I’ve been listening to the sermons in the last month as they’ve gone “live” too, Banncam; it has proven to be quite illuminating. I posted a partial transcript of the Mar. 1 sermon, and I don’t know if my posting it (and the relevant racist/prejudiced parts) had any effect, because the sermon the following week (from Wayne Matthews) sounded like it could have been delivered at any WCG congregation between 1979 and 1985.
March 14th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
That figures.
I’m listening to “45 Days to the 7th Seal” recorded 2-9-08. It is a church service.
Banncam
March 14th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Ecumenicalism anyone?
ARE BELIEVERS OF OTHER RELIGIONS SAVED? by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger Responds
VATICAN CITY, SEP 5 (ZENIT.org).- “How is it possible to explain the unique character of Christ and of the Catholic Church to a Jew or a Lutheran, a reporter asked Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, prefect of the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, during a press conference to present the “Dominus Iesus” declaration, which is concerned, precisely, with the unique and universal salvation of Christ and the Church.
Referring to a believing Jew, Cardinal Ratzinger clarified that “we are in agreement that a Jew, and this is true for believers of other religions, does not need to know or acknowledge Christ as the Son of God in order to be saved, if there are insurmountable impediments, of which he is not blameworthy, to preclude it. However, the fact that the Son of God entered history, made himself part of history, and is present as a reality in history, affects everyone.”
Could this be what the pope is going to profess in April???
March 14th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
That was his statement in Sept. of 2005
March 14th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
According to the message I listened to today….there is a very important religious leader coming to the US in April….
Banncam
March 14th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Comment removed: off topic
March 14th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Here is one quote from the message I listened to today….
“You Don’t have to go look anything up, you don’t have to ‘read anything,’ you just know its true”
He is speaking about the power of the conviction of the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit convicts when things “aren’t true too”. You just KNOW when you hear it, it isn’t true.
Banncam
March 14th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
ty for youtube link. RW is a quantam mechanical tip of the ice berg of urine. Sounds tacky, but wtf would i know ?
March 14th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
quantum*
March 14th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
That’s a bunch a bull, what prophet would tell you to “not look anything up, just know it’s true” when the bible tells you to test EVERYTHING! In other words, just take HIS word for it. Yeah Right!
March 14th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
It’s a Direct quote….I promise. You can listen too if you go to his web site.
Banncam
March 14th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
BrainFart,
Funny, we never hear much about the people who say they can talk to dead animals.
March 14th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Ironwolf,
I think you protest too loudly. But you are right about Jesus Christ Superstar, just not the burn in hell cyphering. As RW states everone will have a final chance to obey God. Those that don’t are just dead. No eternal suffering that I can see, no hell. As far as sitting back and making a negative impact on the world you presently don’t have enough information to make that judgement.
To counter your point about my group. It amazes me that your group can be so smug about the possibility of God. As of this date no one has come back to fill us in. Also, I’m not putting all of my eggs in the RW basket. I don’t know if anything is going to happen, no one does. But if I had to place a bet……Next stop Iran.
March 14th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Ironwolf, “Comment removed: off topic.”
Unless I am not reading correctly, your little conversation with Brainfart and several other posts lately are equally off the topic. Perhaps you should follow your own rules, as well as enforce other peoples posts in a balanced manner. I am being lead by example, and so I post accordingly.
March 14th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Jonathan,
Perhaps you should start your own blog and moderate it. I’m willing to entertain some banter about end-of-times Christian prophecy in this topic, but not the conspiracy-theory and pseudoscience stuff you’ve been linking to.
March 14th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
So, should i start digging a hole and crawl into it?
March 14th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
I may not always post comments but I am still here.
March 14th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Gooseman,
If you’d really read the whole thread before you started posting, you’ll know I grew up in the WCG, and so you’d know I know very well what they teach— and that they reach an insignificant number of people compared to “mainstream” Christian thought, in which there is eternal hellfire.
Now, when I was in the WCG I used to console myself with the thought that the WCG’s fate for sinners was more “humane” than that of the rest of “the World’s” brand of Christianity. But in the end, it’s just as unsatisfactory that an all-good, all-loving, all-knowing creator God would have to perform such apocalyptic machinations to reproduce himself (which is also what the WCG taught.)
Yes, I do. I see it every day. I see it in your attitude. There is certainly a move among some Christians to become “more responsible stewards of God’s creation,” but this refreshing view pretty much requires the supposition that Jesus could take a very long time to return or even a symbolic, rather than literal interpretation of the Second Coming. Thus, it is virtually absent among people who believe that the world is about to be literally burned up. Which, sadly, is a lot of Christians.
I’m not sure if by “my group” you mean “RW believers” or “believers in general,” or whether by “your group” you mean “non-RW believers” or “non-believers in general.” But if you read the thread you’ll know that I allow for the possibility of some kind of God, although I see no evidence to think there is anything like a personal god, hence the self-identification as atheist. But the usual Christian conception of God is quite absurd, both for the WCGers and the rest too.
If you want to impress me, then produce a body of strong evidence. No amount of whining that “Jesus hasn’t come back yet, so just wait until he does,” amounts to evidence, much less proof— it’s more like bullying. Your forebears have waited 2000 years, and you’re in the process of wasting your life carrying on the vigil.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
One theory (preterism) says the book of Revelation, and all the events therein, were fulfilled in 70AD during the destruction of Jerusalem.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Ironwolf,
I am aware you grew up in the WCG, my condolence because it obviously left you bitter towards the Christian God. To clarify, your group would be ” non-believers in general”. Your smug attitude is so common among ex-believers. I know, I used to be one!
Again, you come up short when you say your qualified to judge my attitude or works. “The meek shall inherit the earth”. I have a friend who was born into a wheel chair. She dreams of the day when she is released from that prison. I can only hope that she will be free in the next life.
That is why we hope RW is right. Or God himself. To end the suffering. We are very much alike, Ironwolf, my friend. Peace. PS, I don’t need to impress you. You are just a man.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Gooseman,
Hm. Then, aside from the fact that I cannot be bitter towards something in which I do not believe, consider also the effect on any poor kid now growing up in Weinland’s WCG splinter.
So you’re an ex-ex-believer? Perhaps after Weinland goes down in flames you’ll be an ex-ex-ex-believer. In any case, I think there’s enough smugness to go around. But I’m willing to bet you good money that by the end of April you won’t be so smug, and I’ll be somewhat moreso— for good reason.
Peace to you— in this life.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
This post is a bit old sorry im a day behind
Ironwolf: OK I am sorry
Christina: I know how you feel.
Miss B you said..
The people who believe with all of their hearts that they are serving God. Would Jesus not have mercy on them or would he turn his back and not listen because they are not a part of Weinland’s sect? Someone correct me if I am wrong but that is how Weinland makes it sound and that doesn’t make sense to me.
That is exactly why I would never want to be a Jehovah Witness! Is that would Ronald is meaning? I thought he meant everyone gets a second chance (but those who found the “truth” ect but turned their back on it dont get a second chance? )
Regardless of weather he is a prophet or not we dont need to join anything. Its OK to listen to what they have to say but why should we have to join anything? Even if what he says does come to pass?
March 14th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
karina, Ron believes that only those that are baptized into his church have favor with God and that God is only working with those people and his church only. He teaches that Jesus is not coming back to save mankind only Weinland’s church (the bride of Christ). That his followers will have favor with God and that they will be allowed to live through the tribulation into the millenium and live with Christ for 1000 yrs here on Earth. The rest of us will all die during the tribulation because we are all corrupt and have not followed the Sabbath (on Saturday, actually Friday at sundown ’til Saturday at sundown) You cannot break any of the Ten Commandments especially the Sabbath and we have not kept the Feasts and Holy days of the Old Testament. We will however be resurrected at the end of the millenium to be given a choice of whether we want to serve God as Weinlands followers have and Weinland’s church and the Saints will teach us how to obey God and to become gods ourselves. Anyone who wishes not to obey God will be thrown into the Lake of Fire with Satan and his followers and be destroyed forever. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Miss B - that about sums it up from what I’ve heard, and that’s every sermon since Feast of Tabernacles 2006.
I also have to say, after watching all of Thunderf00t’s “Why do people laugh at Creationists” videos, I can better understand poor Ironwolf’s growing frustration with postings like Gooseman’s. I’d recommend all advocates of a Creation Week take the time to watch them, especially the 19th.
March 14th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
The 17th of April is “World Hemophila Day”, but I prefer to spell it haemphilia. It’s beer o’clock… smile
ok, off topic, re captcha word is “excessive monies”. Has me wondering if Ron and his cronies are sending subliminals :/
March 15th, 2008 at 12:45 am
Ironwolf,
Haha. I haven’t heard of it…yet. I’m gonna say it can be done though!
Do you have a dead animal you wish to speak to now? Or can it wait til the afterlife?
March 15th, 2008 at 7:13 am
BrainFart,
I think I’ll wait until I’m dead too: the per-minute charges are lower then.
March 15th, 2008 at 8:49 am
Karina and Miss B,
Yep, that sums up Armstrongism’s dualistic view of the book of Revelation nicely. Although it came up in the discussion earlier, not even all of Weinland’s church members are going to be “the chosen elect”, since the “144,000″ (from that book of Rev) were “sealed” on Feb. 9. Meaning, even if you “convert” and are baptized after that, you’re left to sweep the sidewalks in the kingdom. No government (of god) position for you!
I note that none of Weinland’s believers have disputed me on the fact that the final three thunders haven’t sounded at all, and there are three days left (and counting) to go to the seventh seal, when “the world will be shocked and in horror” according to Weinland.
March 15th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Miss B and Karina–
Great conversation. I think what most don’t know is just how confused Ronald Weinland is on the 1st and the 2nd Resurrection.
It’s good to know that most of Revelation and (Daniel for that matter) is not completely the work of John (or Daniel). He (they) was the prophet, but the book is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. I won’t get into it here, but the 1st and 2nd Resurrections are not as Ronald Weinland says they are:
According to the Bible that I read:
Daniel : 12:2– does speak of two resurrections, however, the resurrections are quite different because they spell out TWO fates for mankind.
According to Weinland– EVERYONE will be given a chance to live again– some at the first resurrection and some at the second. The PROBLEM with that is– A. It makes the existence of Christ pointless and B. It’s not what the Bible says at all.
Rev 20:4-6
talks mentions the first resurrection. These are “firsfruits”.. the blessed and Holy (believers in Christ that many believe will have been raptured). After this, according to the Bible… those dead before the return of JC will be risen, then the Tribulation Saints who died.
The SECOND Resurrection.. according the Bible.. is one that NOONE should want to be part of. Not because you will have to wait 1000 years before it happens, but becasue it includes the GREAT WHITE THRONE judgement. This is the RESURRECTION OF DAMNATION. This is when the dead and the non believers (John 5:29
). This is where all ubelievers.. dead and alive will be brought back to life, judged and thrown into the lake of fire. (SECOND DEATH) (Rev. 20:12-13
)
The time from between the 1st and Second Resurrecton is the 1000 yr. Millenium.
According to Ron ALL people will be given a second chance at life….. some after the 1000 yrs… TOTALLY ABSURD.
This will all be debunked officially on Tuesday.
March 15th, 2008 at 9:12 am
RW told my sibling (and family) that although they were living God’s way, they were not part of the 144,000.
They just smiled and accepted it because God’s judgements are perfect.
I asked them what is the difference then for all those “so called” people who have to live through the tribulation and my sibling who will also have to endure it….they didn’t have an answer.
This discussion was in 2006. I haven’t discussed RW with my family since then.
I believe in my heart in the next 30 days when all the “stuff” is supposed to hit the fan, and the US economy is supposed to totally crash and other events DON’T take place, the “spin” will come out…folllowers (including my family) will make excuses for RW and nothing will change.
He will not humble himself and say he isn’t a prophet or witness. He will say God told him to say all that for a greater purpose that no man (except himself) can really know or understand. He will say it is simply just one of the many mysteries of God’s plan or will.
He will NOT be held to his predictions by his followers.
I personally will hold him to them and discuss them with my family, but they along with the other followers will have a reason why God didn’t make things happen….
Sad.
Banncam
March 15th, 2008 at 9:21 am
If any of the people on this blog were members of WCG under HWA, you should remember it. It is all very familiar.
If you are followers of RW, and were members of WCG under HWA, you should be in a very familiar situation.
I wonder how many times people have to be scammed or manipulated before they decide NO MORE!?
Banncam
March 15th, 2008 at 9:27 am
And by the way…
The tornado that hit Atlanta today….feeds the fire!
Banncam
March 15th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Banncam,
Great! (as in that really sucks). Well, there are more tonadoes coming for that area today!!!
March 15th, 2008 at 10:47 am
On his Radio Interviews though Ron specifically says that if things dont come to pass starting April then he will confess to being a “False Prophet”..So it has come out of the “horses” mouth as they say and the radio interviews are the Proof!..There is no going back on what he says..He has gone to far to change course…..
March 15th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Banncam–
Weinland is also screwed up on who the 144K are anyway. The 144, 000 according to the Bible are made up of Jewish VIRGIN men. So, I guess he’s right.
Tornadoes, tornadoes, tornadoes…. means nothing. Atlanta is hardly global… I know you know all of this…
March 15th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Man, and I thought Ron was sadistic: at least he gives everyone a second chance. In the Universe according to Jim, everyone here shy of him is going for a dip in the Lake of Fire.
Shit eh? (yes, yes I am a Canadian
)
March 15th, 2008 at 11:51 am
This week’s sermon cannot be downloaded (saved to file), and RealPlayer will be disabled from this point on.
Weinland’s getting crafty!
March 15th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Only 29 baptized? So much for the millions and millions.
ClaireUK - Your MySpace page is being spoken against by Prophet Ron right now!
March 15th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
“If you don’t remove it, you’re out of the church.” (re: MySpace)
“None of you have any reason to be mentioning my name or the books or any of that. None of you have the authority to be representing the church of god.”
Weinland is really not a happy camper.
March 15th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Weinland on Catholics:
“Liars, liars, liars, liars. That’s exactly what they are.”
March 15th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Weinland Watch,
Do you mean to say that RW is banning people from talking about him and spreading his message, or just the content of his sermons? I thought the whole point of his book was to get the word out? Are you paraphrasing or are these his exact words?
As far as Catholics being liars, sure….but so is everybody else.
March 15th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Ha! Victory! (If Weinland’s telling the truth.) Family members in Canada complained that the mother sent two thousand dollars to the church, and Weinland is claiming THEY SENT THE MONEY BACK.
Anyone with family members tithing money they shouldn’t be, get on the blower to the CoG-PKG and get that money back!
March 15th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
RC: I’m sort-of paraphrasing. Downloads have been disabled, so it’s impossible to get an absolutely accurate transcription (as I did with the Mar. 1 sermon), but he definitively excoriated anyone with a MySpace page “using my name and talking about the books”—–he was definitely targeting ClaireUK in my opinion. (It was normal in WCG days for the ministers to target members from the pulpit, if they were getting out of line.)
March 15th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
As for the rest of the sermon, if you have any history with the WCG, you’re not missing much: It’s the standard anti-Easter diatribe/timeline that was always delivered around this time of year.
March 15th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
I notice ClaireUK’s http://www.myspace.com/ronaldweinland has been mysteriously withdrawn.
March 15th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
I didn’t know about that myspace site….
I wish I’d seen it.
I have a microphone hooked to my computer….
I put the speaker in front of the microphone and make a mp3 file of the streamed sermon….
I just leave my bedroom and let him rant….
My siblings are in front of the computer today listening I’m sure.
My college age child has “attended” one of their church services with cousins. About 10 members got dressed up in suites & ties, dresses, curled hair and high heals….went to someone’s home and sat in front of a speaker phone, sang hymns and listened to a sermon about all the “so called” Christians.
Banncam
March 15th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Hey Paul,
Do you know which interview he said this?
On his Radio Interviews though Ron specifically says that if things dont come to pass starting April then he will confess to being a “False Prophet”..
I REALLY don’t want to listen to them all to find this statement….
Thanks,
Banncam
March 15th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Banncam —- can you send me a copy of today’s streamed sermon when it’s done? My address is weinlandwatch@gmail.com
I want to deconstruct it the same way I did the Mar. 1 sermon, but I can’t do that “on the fly” as it were (I wouldn’t make a very good court reporter I’m afraid).
Many thanks!
March 15th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
You’re right, that MySpace page is gone. Milieu control much/
March 15th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Sure thing…
I just got home so I am hearing only the end “live” right now…
But when they put it online….
I’ll be glad to send it…
Anything else that is “online” I will record for you if you’d like as well.
Banncam
March 15th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Banncam,
Weinland makes the statement that he will come on the air and admit he is false if what he says does not come to pass in the KBAR Steve Mitton radio interview, about 24 min. into show. I believe he says it in others also.
March 15th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Jonathan: “Weinland makes the statement that he will come on the air and admit he is false…”
Yes but he does not admit to giving back the monies he has ‘earned.’
Just one of many minor details being left out of course. Now he can always try to smooth it over by paying back some or part of the money but that still wont get him off the hook completely and the issue of wasting peoples time on this general meaningless nothing still remains (amongst many other counterproductive things).
I don’t know but 2000$ can get you a pretty good flat screen tv nowadays…
March 15th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
I noticed in the comments after the sermon he mentioned they were staying at the Hilton - I guess God’s Witnesses deserve the best.
March 15th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
They also mentioned they rented a swimming pool for the baptisms. Wonder what the turnout was like? I’m willing to bet there weren’t twenty people in the room.
Banncam—-I was hoping you could send me the saved MP3 file that you had before they put it up online. It’s been mentioned here before that some sermons have been edited before they go up.
Thanks.
March 15th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
WW - I have the live feed from today cut up in 20 min chunks of about 10mb each (a fair bit bigger than the official sermons) if you’re really wanting the originals.
March 15th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
I tried to view ClaireUk’s myspace page the other day but she had it set to private so it couldn’t be viewed anyhow.
March 15th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Wonder why he doesn’t want anyone discussing his books???? Hmmm, could it be that he doesn’t want anyone talking any sense into any potential person who is thinking about joining. Or is he afaid that we all make sense and he doesn’t exposing his nonbiblical teachings?
March 15th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
I hadn’t thought of “edited” versions….
I’ll have to catch it live then next Saturday. I have never recorded the “live” messages….
I guess I don’t think like them…
Sorry.
Banncam
March 15th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Has anyone compaired “original” recorded streams to saved mp3’s to see if they really are edited?
I can believe he has edited them, but he doesn’t seem very worried about making mistakes or what anybody might say about him.
Banncam
March 15th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Banncam - I have sound clips from the live version of the 2nd part of his reading of Ch. 7 from his book where I can prove he removed at least a few minutes of him blustering he forgot his notes.
As I said when I first pointed it out on this blog, it’s understandable considering how much it interrupted his flow but it also shows he’s willing to modify them to remove unfavorable evidence as well.
March 15th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Weinland Watch,
I get the feeling Weinland is monitoring and read this blog personally. You have mentioned that,
“This week’s sermon cannot be downloaded (saved to file), and RealPlayer will be disabled from this point on.
Weinland’s getting crafty”
My question is why would he care, if he is the real deal and God has truly ordained him as an end-time prophet and Witness. I can only think that he must have doubts. His attitude in my opinion has always been questionable, even when I personally knew him as a teenager.
Here is a summary of todays sermon: I was having technical difficulty getting on the site. If he gets rid of real player, this makes it extremely difficult for people to listen to his sermons. The buffering of Windows media player is continuous and virtually impossible to listen to his sermons. This is what I experienced today. When I finally got on Real Player, I was able to listen without interruption. I quess he wants to edit his sermons prior to posting them.
The sermon is as follows, minus about 15 minutes.
Mystery of God Revealed Part 4
Catholic Church changed Passover to Easter. Weinland is reading from his book. He discusses the Nicene Creed. Holy Spirit is the power of God. The Holy Spirit is Holy because it belongs to God. The Catholic Church believes in the Trinity. Christ has eternally existed. Armstrong even believed this concept of Christ has eternally existed.
God is revealing himself. He did not give this information to Armstrong. God did not give information to Armstrong that Christ did not eternally exist.
Messianic Jews have their allegiance to the Catholic Church and the Trinity. Discusses various religions and how they received most of their doctrine from the Catholic Church.
Philadelphia Church of God was one of the Church eras described in Revelations.
Many people said that Armstrong made many predictions of events that did not come to pass and therefore was a false witness. Weinland declares that Armstrong was an “Apostle” and not a “prophet.” Armstrong was not given the job of a prophet, but that of a teacher or an apostle.
The Great Tribulation, the last 3 and one-half years, does not begin to April 17, 2008. This is the sounding of the 1st Trumpet of the 7th seal. [Making reference to those who believe that something dramatic is going to occur on March 18. Weinland said nothing is going to occur.
Baptism requirements are as follows: Do you keep the Sabbaths of God? Do you tithe and are you willing to give what belongs to God? Weinland is asking everyone who wants to be in fellowship with God’s church to “obey” God. We must be obedient to God.
We can only understand something that is true, only if God gives it to us. God is creating a family by utilizing man. God cannot dwell in sin. We must repent when we have sinned. God’s creating a spiritual temple, not a physical temple. He is referring to a family of individuals.
God only has one son who was Jesus Christ. He did not exist prior to being born on this earth. God purpose for mankind and that is in his time, that mankind will have an opportunity to be worked with by God.
Weinland announces that on September 29, 2011 that Christ returns and the 144,000 will be resurrected and given eternal life. This is the first resurrection. This is the Feast of Trumpets.
Why was the angelic realm created? They were created to minister to God and mankind.
All those who live and are born during the millennial period will help minister the billions who are to be resurrected during the 100 year period that follows the millennium.
Everyone who has died is in fact dead and is waiting a resurrection.
Isaiah 45
: I am God and there is no one else. There is no God but me. Weinland is interpreting that God is the only God. This excludes Christ because he is not in existence at this point in time.
Elohim is the name of God’s family. The God kind will have only one name which will be Elohim. The truth about “Yahweh” is the eternal one. Christ is not the eternal one because he had a beginning. Armstrong could not break free of his beliefs because he believed that Christ was the God of the Old Testament. “YHWH” means the self-existing one.
Armstrong believed that Christ gave up his powers to become human and be born of Mary.
Weinland does not use the word “divine” because it has too many definitions that mean too many different things.
Christ was dead for three days and three nights. How could Christ be dead and be God at the same time?
The father of Christ was “Yahweh.” The Jews did not understand what was written in the Psalm concerning Christ and a relationship that he would have with his father [God]. The Jews of our time do not understand the meaning of Christ.
Act 2:26
Christ relied on God to resurrect him. Christ could not resurrect himself. Christ is talking to his father. Psalm 16
,
Peter is telling the Jews that this is not about David, but Christ and what he fulfilled on this earth. David is still dead and in the ground. David has never been resurrection. There has only been one whose body has never seen corruption. This is Christ who was resurrected.
God promised that David’s throne would physically exist until the return of Christ. King David’s linage would continue until the return of Christ. Weinland and Armstrong interpret that the Royal family of England is David’s bloodline and is the tribe of Judea.
Peter is explaining in the books of Acts that Christ body [soul] was not left in the grave. Christ was dead and not God [eternal]. God cannot die. God had to resurrect his son, Christ. [Weinland has always defined “soul” as the body or the human body. He did not reference the “spirit of man”]
Many religious groups have said that Christ died on Friday and was resurrected Sunday morning. This is not 3 days and 3 nights. This disproves, according to Weinland, that this is Christ. Christ made it clear that he would be dead for 3 days and 3 nights.
The way into the “Holiest of Holy” [God throne] is through Christ, and God the father will be able to have a relationship with mankind with his Holy Spirit.
On September 29, 2011, Christ returns at the end of this 24 hour period at the very moment when he destroys 2 armies [China and Russia and Europe?] when 200 million soldiers will die. [I believe this is the first time that Weinland verballized a date for Christ return and said September 29, 2011. He has always said that Christ will return on the Feast of Trumpets and let the membership and his listening audience do the math calculations.]
Weinland believes that Christ is going to sit on David’s throne [a physical throne] at his 2nd coming.
The teaching of the Trinity is a lie. Christ has not eternally existed. There was only one God who eternally existed. This is Christ’s father.
Act 5
: The new covenant was for man to be forgiven of sin through the death of Christ. Peter explained the God the father glorified his son, Jesus.
Matthew 22
: Christ asked his disciples who he was. He knew that he was the son of God.
The Jewish people didn’t understand that Christ was standing before them. David wrote the coming messiah was his Lord.
The purpose of God is to create a family. Jesus Christ was made God and this occurred the moment he was resurrected. The angelic realm was made into spiritual beings, but they were not made God. Mankind will be given an opportunity to become sons and daughters of the God family.
Weinland believes that we are to be resurrected Gods.
March 15th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Weinland Watch,
You wrote the following:
“If you don’t remove it, you’re out of the church.” (re: MySpace)
“None of you have any reason to be mentioning my name or the books or any of that. None of you have the authority to be representing the church of god.”
I believe last week on March 1, he told his membership to start discussing the book. Maybe this was for family member only!
What does Weinland expect? Doesn’t he want the USA to acknowledge that he is one of the 2 witnesses and a prophet form God.
March 15th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Renton: Yes, if you could shoot me those files, to weinlandwatch@gmail.com , that would be much appreciated.
Doug: Your transcript is mostly accurate. What I need is the actual files so I can time-stamp the quotes I use from them, and quote Rotten Ronnie verbatim. Weinland may be covering his butt, but I’m real big on covering my own!
I particularly want to quote verbatim the part about Weinland going off on the members re: the MySpace page, and the other sites, as well as the point at which he starts screaming about how people don’t know the true christ as the human son of god, and especially the part where he bangs the pulpit. I also want to get the names of the newly-ordained elders, so I can do some research on them (Mitch Williams, for example, was an elder in UCG).
I got a little more information on Weinland himself as well (he attended Bricket Wood in ‘72, and started out as a church member (was likely born and raised like the rest of us poor guy) in North Carolina. He also mentions the 1290, the 1260 (days) and excoriates members for thinking the seventh seal (in just three days) will be the beginning of the great tribulation (”You’re just gonna have to wait.”)
There was also a long speech near the end about how Russia and China are engaged in some sort of secret pact to revive the cold war.
All this is conjecture and hearsay though, until I can get my hands on the actual file(s) and play them back for myself so I can report them verbatim.
Thanks Renton!
March 15th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Oh yeah my takeaway quote from this sermon?
“There are things here that I know that you still don’t understand.”
That pretty much sums up Weinland’s attitude towards the sheeple.
March 15th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Hey Doug,
…so today’s message said this?….
The Great Tribulation, the last 3 and one-half years, does not begin to April 17, 2008. This is the sounding of the 1st Trumpet of the 7th seal. [Making reference to those who believe that something dramatic is going to occur on March 18. Weinland said nothing is going to occur.
**Then what does he mean in the message I listened to called, 45 Days till 7th Seal? That message was dated Feb 2. In that message he says something like “it’s really only 38 days!” he sounds all excited when he said it too.
He says there is a 30 day “rest” period. A quiet period AFTER the 7th seal is opened but BEFORE the 1st trumpet sounds. He says in that “quiet” period Satan will NO LONGER have effect on the scattered church and the scattered members (the people we once shared church services with) will humble themselves and come to understand PKG is the true church and will start showing up in “droves”…thousands of them (from what I understood).
So today he says nothing will happen on the 18th of March….
Have you ever seen/heard “Charles Manson” interviews from the 80’s??? He talks so much in circles…ONLY HE really knows what he means…but he LOVES to hear his own voice!
So…(I’ll have to give it a listen) but basically, he said nothing is going to happen on March 18th…
I wonder if he stands by his prophecy of BIG things happening in the thirty days after the opening of the 7th seal…..?????
I wonder if he is counting FULL days, partial days or only work days or only Saturdays?????????
Banncam
March 16th, 2008 at 12:40 am
Banncam,
I believe Weinland has spoken and written much, but has become deluded. Is time on his side? Why is he concerned about his members talking with us? Shouldn’t he have much more important work to accomplish (like making those “Thunders” quake), other than monitor this blog and reprimanding his flock? If Weinland was truly ordained a prophet by God, wouldn’t the books that he wrote be absolutely perfect and without error. Everything that is stated should occur verbatim and as written.
March 16th, 2008 at 1:38 am
I know that on Tuesday things will be proven false to me, despite tha