Ron Weinland: Discussion Part 6
If Ron Weinland is to be believed, it’s about 35 days until all hell breaks loose. The saga (and the conversation) continues!
See Part 5 for the FAQ, and see Part 1 for basic info and links.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
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on Thursday, March 13th, 2008 at 7:31 am and is filed under False Prophets.
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new ww,
very well put…..we will just have to wait! I believe that is what ron said last week. If nukes go off in April, i can’t wait to see what ppl have to say, i bet you are right ppl will still try to disprove ron.
kurt,
i have to agree with you, ron is not getting anything out of this.
He is putting way more money in advertising than he could ever make off selling the books in the stores. He has said that if you wanted to pay for the book in the store you would prob have to have them order it, because they’re not going to have it in stock, because its not a good seller! I know when someone is reading this they will be dying to tell me he is getting peoples money through tithes. There is really not much to dispute about it, I guess you could say that every pastor and/or church is guilty of this, because God wants us to tithe 10%, and it is to hard to tell who we should trust and not trust!
Jim said: 1. There will be 70 ?sevens?? 70 times 7. This is the term (490 years) from the time the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the end of man gets to finish ?transgression.:
2. Daniel is also told that ?7 weeks and 62 weeks? into that (483 years) Christ will be ?cut off?.. crucified. ”
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
This is talking of Christ and his atonement for sin, not mankind. Jim, you, like most do, are misreading it. Daniel says their will be 70 weeks, yes, but he says AFTER 69 weeks, Christ will be cut off midweek (3 1/2 year ministry), which makes this week the 70th. The 70 weeks were a continual period that have been fullfilled in Christ. No stop watch was stopped after the 69th week, waiting to be started again.
Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
This is not some pre trib peace treay that is confirmed, it is the covenant (testament) of the messiah…
Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Christ both confirmed his covernant/testament with the many and is cut off midweek, during the time week the Gospel went to the Jews only. At the end of this final week, the Gospel goes to the Gentiles.
Again, nowhere in scripture does it say the tribulation lasts for seven years. That is simply based on a misreading of Daniel.
15 Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be (Matthew 24:15-21).
According to Ron’s first book “prophesied End-Time” on pages 166-169 Ron claims that Mr. Tkach was the Man of Sin and that the Abomination of Desolation was an event(a spiritual event) that happened only in the COG. Ron claims that when Mr. Tkach stood in the holy place (the COG) and “betrayed” God by defiling the “Spiritual Temple of God” Ron claims in his book that the people of the church were then supposed to flee out of it because it was no longer spiritually safe. Now here is my question??? Looking at the actual bible verse above, how can anyone (Ron) interpret it any differently than it is stated? Why would God say not to go back in your house to get your clothes and not take anything out of your house? Why would he say woe to those who are pregnant or who are nursing babies in those days? Why would he say pray that your flight not be in the winter or during the Sabbath? It makes NO SENSE if this verse were to mean simply for the the church members to get out of the church. Funny how Weinland only put half of the bible verse in the book and conveniently left out the part about fleeing your house and woe to the pregnant and the nursing and pray that your travels wouldn’t take place in the winter. Why when they were only going to another splinter church????
banncam,
i like talking to you even though you don’t believe ron and i do. You seem to know a lot about the bible, so i have a question for you. I was reading in Acts today because of the verses you gave me, and i do agree there was 3k ppl added to the church in one day, and i believe there may have been 5k added another day, i would have to go reread to make sure i read it right about the 5k. My question is about those ppl, they were all selling their belongings and giving the money to the church and the church was giving it back to ppl according to their need. When did the church stop practicing this? How come ppl are not selling their houses and cars today and letting the church handle their finances, did this stop sometime before the bible ends? I am not trying to be a smart ass, by asking this, I am really interested if you know why this stopped. If ron was telling ppl this today, we would all have a good time laughing at him huh?
Hi Dewayne,
I like talking to you too. Let me say something here. I’m NO theologian! I am simply a serious follower of Christ. I’ve been “spiritually abused” so I do NOT trust any religious leader. I attend a church, but I listen to Christian radio pretty much every day. I listen to LOTS of speakers from ALL denominations. Here is my favorite website: http://www.oneplace.com
I don’t agree 100% with ANY of them and I LOVE that! I don’t believe I must. I’m “saved” (although any members of PKG or splinter groups hate that term). The Holy Spirit dwells inside of me according to scripture, so if someone (anyone) preaches or teaches anything I don’t understand or even agree with, my salvation is NOT at stake so I put that “item” on a shelf and talk to God in prayer about it. And truthfully, at some point, God brings those things back up in my life and off the “shelf” and I revisit them. I believe my understanding or belief (or lack there of) in that shelved item is directly connected to my spiritual maturity, NOT the “preacher, speaker or person” who introduced the item…
I don’t hate RW. I simply think he is wrong. I DO have reason to believe he is wrong. His organization is a splinter of WCG which I was born into and was very involved in ALL my life. I’ve ALREADY believed a false prophet once. The WCG since its EARLIEST days have focused on prophecy, end time signs, weather patterns, world economies, wars…etc. Their focus on The Savior Jesus Christ has ALWAYS been a “side note”.
I’ve heard Almost everything RW has written or spoken about before, practically all my life, because it is “end time” event details. For years and years and years, WCG covered that. Of course there are new things RW covers…because he believes God revealed things to him alone, so those things are new.
But EVEN if he is right in his prophecies, I will not join his church, because my salvation is in Christ, NOT in any organization.
Banncam
Sorry that last message was so long…
Anyway, about that scripture in Acts. I looked it up. I’m not a theologian, but what I understand it to mean is that those who were “added” daily were “jews” and they continued to meet at the “temple courts” (Jewish house of worship), breaking bread, which would be sharing meals in rememberance of Christ.
They pooled their monies to help one another because when they meet together so much, they would learn of each other’s needs.
These same people would eventually begin to meet in homes and then even in secret because the Jewish leaders didn’t want “Christ” rememberances going on outside where they met and read old covenant scriptures about the “coming Messiah”…
There was persecution of the church which put them into hiding.
I know people who belong to “religious groups” (NOT associated with WCG or RW) who live in “communities” (or communes). They believe this scripture is dictating they “combine” their incomes, meal times …etc. to the benefit of all “believers” so talents and blessings can be shared benefit all rather than a few.
Anyone else have a comment about these scriptures in Acts?
Banncam
Hey waytencee watch,
It is easy to be consumed with something that I totally do not believe. I will not be “gloating” if RW turns out to be wrong. I am hoping RW nor one of his followers don’t try to harm my family who are members of his group. History shows this has happened before!
If RW turns out to be a false prophet, I just hope his followers abandon him and his organization. Unfortunately, I’m living proof, when people follow false prophets, they find ways to excuse the falseness and look the other way, EVEN when his prophecies are PROVEN wrong; believing in a man’s teaching for salvation BEFORE believing in the Holy Spirit who/that dwells inside them.
What has happened, with RW and MANY religious leaders (Various and MANY religions) is they ATTACH MUCH to eternal life. They don’t really call it that, but they also don’t want to say salvation through Jesus Christ ALONE.
If nukes go off in this country and RW says we MUST follow him… I still won’t follow him. But I will continue to follow the Lord Jesus.
I’m sorry if I’ve offended you.
Banncam
Well…if Nukes do go off in April theres no way i,m gonna be looking at a bloody computer screen any more…The thing is we have a timeframe now…30 days…if nothing happens after that then we all breath a sigh of relief..if it does then Ron can breath a sigh of relief???…lol….and i,ll move to The Soloman Islands,hit the Supermarkets bigtime,and cower in a mud hut..:)
By the way i was just watching BBC World news,and there was some American Financial “Bigwig” basically saying that if you have any assets in U.S dollars then you should pull out and change currencies as the Dollar is gonna plummet bigtime,and its not going to be pretty……..I got U.S Dollars in my online poker account dammit…:(
I know that we discussed this before (some of the people who have been on here since this blog began, WW, Jim etc.) We have alot of new people on here and I just urge anyone who thinks that Ron Weinland is from God to read this http://www.serveyahweh.org/Pdf/armstrong.pdf. I just got finished reading it and I am now convinced without a doubt that Ron is not a prophet of God (Satan maybe) let alone one of the Two Witnesses. He claims in his books that Herbert Armstrong was a Prophet of God, then he claims that he was an Apostle an holds on to Armstrong’s teachings and still believes that Armstrong was the end-time Elijah. If you read this (anyone who believes Weinland or is considering it) it is hard to believe, practically impossible, to think that Weinland is from God if he is to hold onto Armstongs teachings, even if his predictions do come true. New comers please read.
Kurt, maybe this will help you sleep again : )
Well I won’t sigh until my family leave his organization…
Banncam and Dewayne (or anyone else) – either of you seem like you should know – I was wondering how Armstrong or Weinland would interpret Acts 15. Of all the places the Protestants cling to regarding nailing the Law to the Cross, this one seems most indicate it was no longer required.
Banncam, hopefully when Ron’s predictions don’t come true they will turn away. Pray for them that their eyes will be opened to the truth. I will pray for them also and all in Ron’s church. Despite what Ron says, God hears our prayers. I truly believe that and I totally agree with you about following Jesus instead of Ron. I get discouraged when I watch the news and I still get afraid of the things that will happen in this world if not this time maybe the next, but I too will follow Jesus. He will be there for those who truly seek him.
waytencee – I agree with you completely about not disproving what he didn’t say. As you say, he’ll disprove himself if he’s false. As the other WW pointed out, on the bottom of p 23 of 2008:GFW he states, “…the world will be shocked and in horror on the day that the Seventh Seal is opened.” Which, by Ron’s own measure of time, started at sunset respectively around the world today.
Regarding the validity of the Thunders, please see my previous post http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/470#comment-43047 if you haven’t already.
Regarding the Greek Orthodox and Mormon leaders, Weinland himself said this was not a fulfillment of the 5th Thunder the Sabbath immediately following their deaths.
And btw, if nukes did go off, I’d be takin’ my frickin’ tithes to Ron personally.
Curt,
(Sorry, this is long, folks.)
When I read what you wrote, it was like I wrote it. Something similar happened to me last summer. I wasn’t looking for anything like this. But out of nowhere people from different believes and walks of life came into my circle of friends and these people were saying big changes for this planet are going to take place in 2008.
A woman named Cassandra said there was to be major changes to the planet for the lifting of the consciousness of man to be of Christ like consciousness. Another person (Eddie), that was doing the same business as I, all of a sudden quit and said he needed to write a book about getting right with God because the time has come.
Then around January this year, this client of my girlfriend gave her a DVD (conspiracy stuff) and about a month later she became alarmed because her spirit told her to prepare because early spring 2008 a major event would take place. At that point, I said to myself, what the hell is going on? —- now my own girlfriend!
A few days later, Eddie, my former business colleague who quit the business to write a book about getting right with God, wrote me an e-mail with some stuff about Russell Means —- that website lead me to the Mother of all “prophetic” people Ron Weinland.
I read his books and listened to his radio interviews and his point of April 2008 (terrorist attacks) struck me hard because of what I was hearing from the others and my girlfriend.
A couple of weeks later, Cassandra the woman who spoke of the lifting of our consciousness said her psychic astrologer colleague told her there would be several attempts this April by terrorists to strike the USA with nuclear weapons but they would be stopped. The significance of this is Ron and Cassandra are saying the same thing but with different outcomes and they don’t even know each other and have very different believes.
Since February, I have been tracking what Ron Weinland said about each Thunder of the Sixth Seal that would take place. And whether it is uncanny co-incidence or truth — I don’t know; but the things he says will take place are shaping up to take place. For example, FEMA and DHS to name a couple (to many to list) are preparing us and showing us how to prepare for an inevitable nuclear attack; China’s rapid military buildup along with them now becoming allied with Russia, and his 2005 interview stating the dollar would collapse which it is now becoming very unstable; businesses in New York for the first time are accepting foreign money.
The unsettling thing is, I was not looking for this stuff —- it found me! I worked very hard to be self-sufficient to write and record music full-time, now my world is upside down and my girlfriend and I are spending our days preparing spiritually and looking for a place out of the city and hope to survive if this happens.
At times I feel like a big fool and think I have lost my mind, but leaving the Bible out of it, there is a lot of evidence going on right now with our country and the world and I can’t ignore it now and not see that something is up. If nothing happens this April 2008, then by Ron Weinland’s own words “I am a false prophet.” And if he is a big fraud, it does not take away the fact the terrorists are determined to bring America down with a WMD and our own government telling us it is not a matter of —- if, it is when the next attack will happen.
But, if the USA is hit with a WMD, Massive Earthquake or any other type of devastation beyond anything we have seen this April 2008, then it would be very difficult to argue he is a False Prophet when he is boldly saying it will happen.
By the way guys..I know this is slightly off topic,but if you “search” American Hiroshima on “You Tube”…and go to Dr Williams and Dr.Corts speech(ex-FBI) yo,ull find a sobering speech made last year by these two guys on numerous American cities being readied for nuclear terrorist attacks in the near future,which i spose is relevant to Rons predictions..Very interesting and alarming…
kurt – boy did you come to the right place.
1st – know that Ron spends $5500/mo of members’ tithes on Google adds, so don’t be surprised it comes up anytime you’re looking for anything to do with prophecy.
While I can relate to your dilema (I actually have to opposite one) I would advise you to seek evidence first and then draw conclusions, not seek evidence for foredrawn conclusions.
If you’d like to remind yourself of what conclusions scientists have come to looking at physical evidence, our gracious host has been kind enough to provide us with a series of videos that explain this nicely:
http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/475
Then I’d advise you head to : http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/475
for a rational criticism of the Bible and people like Weinland’s claims to Absolute Truth and the like.
http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/archives/478
provides an amusing inoculation against Creationist stupidity.
Not to shuffle people around on your site Ironwolf, but I figure you’ve get ‘em here to plug, and they address Kurt’s question well.
On to your specific questions:
1) contrary to WWatch, I don’t think Ron’s in it for the money – it’s just the fuel for the fire. I think he’s in it for the adoration. I doubt he has a very high opinion of himself (he did join Armstrong’s church at 19 – so he’s been busy shaming himself most his life.) He’s also spoke very fearfully of being exposed naked.
But he LOVES Armstrong, and as others have proposed, it’s likely he’s vying to be like his hero, but even better. He loves the reinforcement of people saying he’s right and just deletes all the nay-sayers. He’s said so himself.
2) he only wants 10% of your net income, which at least isn’t as greedy as your gross, like Armstrong used to take.
Also, your question oversimplifies things a bit considering how carefully vague he’s been about exactly what is going to happen when. His books don’t even mention nuclear attacks (but 1975 in Prophecy does!) You (like everyone else) assume he’s implying nukes in April are his proof. He’s explicitly denounced this, saying, “I didn’t say ‘nukes in April’ – it could happen, but it doesn’t have to.” This doesn’t seem very prophetic to me.
3) there are LOTS of inconsistencies. Keep listening to his sermons.
4) EXACTLY. He’s only saying what someone else is saying. I don’t have a source, but I’m pretty sure Al Quada said they’d give the Yanks 7 years to convert to Islam, or…. BOOM (9/11/01 + 7 = 9/11/08 – hence the election prediction). So I’m not even sure his timing is original.
Granted, what he’s saying could happen, but I think a better question would be, “why is his time right?” What evidence does he have he’s right, by his own admission, other than what we’re all wondering if he’s right about? Catch22 anyone?
5) Ron admittedly puts on a good front for the radio interviews – but he’s there to play his A-game. For someone preaching in sackcloth, he’s sure got a lot of bad stuff to say about any and everyone.
I have a psych degree (BA only, granted) and Ron displays most the entire list for schizophrenia. What I’m wondering is, how crazy is his wife?
Hi everyone, I’m a 1st time poster, but long time reader of this blog. I think this is a great site. The discussion is fair, and Ironwolf does a great job moderating. (After proof reading this response maybe I should have broken this up into a couple of responses)
I was raised Catholic, but no longer attend church. I consider myself a spiritual person, but have real problems with established religions. I don’t recall exactly when I first learned of RW, but I was intrigued enough to read the books, listen to some sermons, and some interviews. I think I was struck initially by what I perceived was RW’s conviction, belief, and confidence. However, all though some current events seemed to fit the World according to RW, more skepticism crept in the more I read, listened, and learned.
With-out getting into the full explanation of my own journey through this, I first began to wonder how and why a supreme being would care whether or not worshipers of him worshiped on a Saturday or on Sunday or any day they chose. As long as those worshipers believed, and worshiped. Why would it be the cause of their demise? Wouldn’t a supreme being be more concerned with people living a holy life, or making even an honest attempt to do so? Why would a supreme being care? Anyway, that was my first inclination that this didn’t make sense.
To the specifics of the RW’s books, I read them both a while ago. Last summer I believe. The first reading for me was impressive, or I thought it was at the time. However, there are no predictive dates in the book. The only dates are of past events. It seems RW finds it quite convenient to use these dates, but when he makes statements like, “All Seven Thunders will increase in power and recognition over the next two years (from the date of the first printing of this book) and on into the final three and one-half years of great tribulation. The Seven Thunders will serve as a powerful witness that the words of this book are true, and that they are from the God of Abraham, the Father of Jesus Christ”(pg 96). You would think that he would at least trumpet (pun intended) the thunders over these last 2 years for all of his believers, potential believers, and skeptics every time they occurred. If he did this in his sermons I would love to hear them. If anyone can link to the sermons please post them?
If he means what he says, and I take him to mean exactly that, then I decided to list these seven thunders:
1) Terror of War
2) Increasing destruction generated by earthquakes ( and volcano’s)
3) Growing destructiveness from weather
4) Global Economic upheaval
5) Death, 3 phases
a) 1st phase death with-in the COG that was scattered
b) 2nd phase will be sudden escalation in the death of notable people in the world
c) 3rd phase sudden escalation of death in the world from plagues
6) Growing revelation of God’s end-time witnesses
7) Accelerated revelation of God to man
He states that the 7 thunders will increase in power and recognition over the then “next two years”, but doesn’t site any specific dates for these then future more powerful and recognizable thunders, that are supposed to occur. I find it more than a bit curious that he sprinkles the 7 thunders with past events and their dates as if these are his predictions, which gives the impression that he is more than just a master of current events. Again, I am wondering then for those that have listened to his sermons since the 1st printing of 2008 GFW, did he point out more examples of these more powerful recognizable thunders? If so what exactly does he cite? If he didn’t is he waiting to write another book?
#1) For the sake of argument I will concede the war on terror, but only because a Global War on terror is new to history, at least how we now perceive the world. So there isn’t any historical perspective to compare to.
#2) Earthquakes/Volcanoes. RW doesn’t just say earthquakes he says “increasing destruction generated by earthquakes”(pg 95). He only gives us one historical event to compare to, the tsunami in 2004. So what has he predicted here that has increased in intensity over the last 2 years? Has he cited any earthquake events which caused great destruction to buildings or human life which compare to 2004? I am not aware of any.
#3) Growing destructiveness from weather. RW cites Katrina and cyclone Larry in 2005. RW also states, “, but over the next couple of years these conditions will become worse yet!”(pg 97). Has he cited any other abnormal or growing destructive weather events in the last 2 years during his sermons? If you think about it weather causes destructiveness all the time, every year, so for this to be a prediction of a biblical thunder to the magnitude of “growing destructiveness” this needs to go beyond normal. It simply just isn’t, and if you think about it, is not prophetic at all. I would argue that if there wasn’t any destructiveness due to weather in some period of time that would be more of a prophetic prediction.
#4) Global economic upheavals. Economies are cyclical, it’s part of the way these systems work. The reality of any economic system is that they have highs and lows, recessions, depressions, and growth. Here he makes an actual prediction but, no date. RW says we will see a “huge market crash” and “global economic upheaval, the likes of which this world has never seen” (pg 98). This has not occurred, and notwithstanding the downward trend in the US, there is always the potential for a global upheaval, so on this I am willing to give RW a pass. I will add that it is interesting that out of all his economic forecasting of doom and gloom on pages 98-100 he doesn’t mention anything about the subprime mortgage issues which is the main cause of the current US difficulties. I find it curious that this issue wasn’t widely spoken about, known, or in the headlines in 2005 or 2006. Even so, why did he pick every other potential economic factor he could list, but not one of the major components of current US and World economic problems? The subprime mortgage mess could be the “final domino”, wouldn’t God’s end-time witness bother to mention it with the rest of the economic laundry list?
#5) Death
1st phase, I can’t speak to the death of COG of the scattered except for what I have heard in this discussion, and RW is vague as to the when this is supposed to occur, and only cites the COG in 2005.
2nd phase, sudden escalation of notable people in the world. I’m not a statistician but I haven’t noted this sudden escalation. RW lists political leaders, well known entertainment figures, and sports figures. He also says it will include other religious figures within various religions of the world. The only one excluded is the Pope. He doesn’t say what a sudden escalation means or when it will begin, but says it will begin small and increase in intensity as all the thunders do. Up to the writing of this response I haven’t noted any sudden escalation of deaths for notables. RW says that, “this phase will overlap the first, but this is the main one that people in the world will notice” (pg 108). By “notice” I guess he means that the suddenness will be something that makes the news? Meaning that the fact that all these “notables” are dying makes the news as much as their actual death. So we should see headlines like, “Why are all these politicians, entertainment figures, and sports figures suddenly dying?!”. I haven’t seen that headline yet. If it doesn’t happen before I’m dead, who’s going to notice or care after the 1st 4 trumpets anyway? Like I said I’m not a statistician, but I am willing to bet good money that if someone was to look into the average amount of deaths for notable people in any given year there hasn’t been a sudden escalation.
3rd phase, Pandemics and Epidemics, maybe he is saving this one for next year? I guess he has to get a pass on this one.
So if you look at the 5th thunder, other than the death of some of the COG members in 2005, nothing predicted has happened.
#6) Growing revelation of God’s end-time witnesses. This is vague and subjective, so it’s just not worth arguing at this point. But it is confusing to read how he listed this on page 109 talking about witnesses plural and then using “I” as the he is the spokesman for himself and someone else. Why would the other witness need a spokesman? Why would the other prophet need a spokesman?
#7) Accelerated revelation of God to man. “Not for anyone except for God’s own church until the 7th seal”. How convenient.
As a skeptic, non-believer, potential believer, or believer I think it’s fair to pick apart every single little detail when it comes to someone who claims to be speaking for God. RW states on page 111 that God conveyed His very thoughts (words) to the mind (thoughts) of those with whom He is working. RW says the proof will be that events described in both books coming true exactly as I (RW) has described.
On Page 115 bottom paragraph RW says”During the sixth seal, ALL seven thunders will be getting progressively louder. Before the seventh (and final) seal is opened, the seven thunders will become so pronounced that the validity of everything written about them in the previous chapter (chapter4) should roar loudly in the ears of anyone who is willing to admit the truth” Pg 116 top, “Also, by this moment in time, there will be a strong, rapidly growing recognition within the United States that I am who I say I am—one of God’s end-time witnesses and his prophet. This sixth Thunder will continue to grow much louder through this final three and one-half years”
I guess I’m not willing or I’m living on another planet, but so far the 6th seal and the 7 thunders are not occurring exactly has RW has written in the books. I would encourage anyone who believes they have to take an objective look at the seven thunders during this 2 year time period which is about to come to an end and show me what I am missing. According to RW they were to happen exactly as he wrote them.
Robert S. – well done mate. “I think it’s fair to pick apart every single little detail when it comes to someone who claims to be speaking for God.” Brilliant.
Ron shouldn’t be afraid of a little honest, intense scrutiny if he’s the real deal, which is why I find it interesting he’s getting so defensive.
Robert,
First reading your post you sound convincing, but then all you provided is your self opinions. Your post can be as controversial as Weinland himself. The fact is IF Ron gives us the evidence that we have all been waiting for, are you really going to change your mind? We all want our view to be the right one, and sometimes you can give people the evidence they want, but they won’t accept it. We our who we choose to be, and it is hard to change a persons believes and religon overnight.
March 18, The seventh seal is now open…can you see it? do you want to?
Been in the UK for the past week visiting with a close friend, a RW follower who was baptised in London on March 8th by RW. She spoke with RW and his wife during dinner after the sermon and told me they are down to earth, very likeable average people…and THAT is what makes him so convincing and SO dangerous…
Mabey today, March 18th, will be marked by the feds cutting the prime lending interest rate by 1%…(couldn’t resist)….MANY of the events to take place predicted by RW will take place…you just have to pick up the daily newspaper to figure that out….I beleive RW is a highly intellegent, dillusional bible scholar…there have been many in recorded history, including the bible(if you believe the bible is recorded history) who have claimed that THE ALLMIGHTY has spoken to them…what concerns me most is how RW’s followers will pick up the pieces when he is proved to be a false profit (oops) I mean prophet. OH…and did I mention that the dinner after the sermon in London on the 8th was on RW… hmmm…
Im going to let you guys in on a secret…It’s Aliens.
We are about to confirm that we have been in contact for some time.
-Magisto
The question is…
If RW’s prophecies turn out to be exactly right….
ARE we as Christ followers required to “join his church”?
He’s already stated the 144,000 are sealed and it is too late to be resurrected in the 1st resurrection….
So….what’s the point in “joining his church?” IF WE ARE ALREADY following the SAVIOR???????
I won’t ever follow a man. According to scripture, the SAME Holy Spirit that raised Christ from the dead, lives inside me. I believe and trust that.
RW and other religious leaders would have us believe, we NEEEEEEED them….for salvation or some other special connection with our Savior….NOT SO according to scripture. Where there once were “high priests” in the OT who would go to God on behalf of the people, we now have THE HIGH PRIEST in Christ who WE can GO TO ourselves. EVERYONE of us. NO more “go between’s” necessary.
Banncam
If RW turns out to be EXACTLY RIGHT in his prophecies as the prophets were in the bible, GOD will have made it so.
The people…in the world…who DO NOT KNOW CHRIST should listen to RW and turn to CHRIST. They do not need to send their money to RW, unless they feel the Holy Spirit prompting them to. They do not need to “join his church” unless the Holy Spirit guides them there. The Holy Spirit may want people to save their money to help LOCAL needy people in desperate times. God may want people who turn to HIM (GOD) and to stay in their local churches edifying and having an empact on local people, helping them turn to HIM.
Believe me I KNOW! …RW and the other splinter groups…separate from everyone around them for the most part. A few “liberals” in their organizations, are involved in their communities. But for the MOST part, they are not. I believe this is wrong. I believe our mandate as Christ followers is to be “living sacrafices, serving those who need it.”
This is why I will not be joining his church even if RW is found to be right. I am already in the body of Christ. If my community is in turmoil and devestation. I will keep what money I have (if it is worth anything) and I will help those around me who need it. I will go to local churches and serve people. I will be about doing God’s work.
The splinters of WCG do NOT understand the concept of individuals working for God. They don’t even believe it is GOD’s WORK in action! They opperate and ONLY understand “corporate” work. They want you to tithe to them, THEY will help ONLY those in THEIR organization.
YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE the criticm Joe Tkach took when he sent WCG MONEY to help hurricane victems in the early 1990’s! The victims weren’t members of WCG. It was unreal!
If a nuke attacks US, and you send money to RW, and your local community is in need…what good are you to those around you? What message do you send?
Banncam
Thank you Miss B! I appreciate your prayers for my family.
Banncam
Magisto,
I’m not predicting anything, and I’m also asking questions. I am also responding to your question. Why isn’t RW? All I did was list as best I could what RW wrote in his book. He said things would happen exactly as they are written. Why shouldn’t they stand up to anyone’s scrutiny? As I said in my original post, if RW has pointed out examples of “ALL seven thunders will increase in power and recognition over the next two years (from the date of the first printing of this book) and on into the final three and one-half years of great tribulation. The Seven Thunders will serve as a powerful witness that the words of this book are true, and that they are from the God of Abraham, the Father of Jesus Christ”(pg 96). RW went to great lengths to point out past events as examples of thunders. Why would he leave anything to my interpretation? The words are as plain as they can possibly be, “All seven thunders will increase in power and recognition over the next two years”. Truly my opinion is I don’t believe they have, so why is Ron unable or unwilling to point these events out? As I asked, if he has in his sermons I would love to hear the specific sermons where he does this.
As I also said in my original response RW states, “During the sixth seal, ALL seven thunders will be getting progressively louder. Before the seventh (and final) seal is opened, the seven thunders will become so pronounced that the validity of everything written about them in the previous chapter (chapter4) should roar loudly in the ears of anyone who is willing to admit the truth” Pg 116 top, “Also, by this moment in time, there will be a strong, rapidly growing recognition within the United States that I am who I say I am—one of God’s end-time witnesses and his prophet. This sixth Thunder will continue to grow much louder through this final three and one-half years”. My opinion is that this means the seven thunders during the sixth seal (last 2 years 06 & 07 ending today) would have been at least of the same magnitude in which he gave examples of in his descriptions (chapter 4 2008 GFW). Why wouldn’t RW point out the thunders covering this period of time, and say this is what I was writing about in my books?
I’m not trying to be controversial. I just read the books, took RW’s own words and tried to fit the events of the last two years to them. If my opinions about what has taken place during that time frame are disputable, dispute them. I am here willing to listen, and respond. Whether or not I am willing to change my mind or not will depend on the evidence. A small mistruth is as false as a big mistruth. Why anyone who has read RW’s books and is inclined to believe them should be held hostage any longer than necessary is cruel. Why should anyone give RW a pass on what he has written, because the big predictions aren’t supposed to occur yet? If the little predictions didn’t happen (in my opinion) why should I wait for the big predictions to occur?
No, but the money Junior sent was money that belonged to the members. I don’t remember any of us (when the discussion came up) having a problem with the money being sent to help charitable causes….the problem was, as it still is, that Junior does whatever he wants with the money, to this day. Regardless of how good a face they put on their protestantism for the cult-watch groups, local congregations are still required to send tithes in to headquarters. (Ironwolf—has this changed at all?)
And I ask you people……I’ve been quoting exactly the same passage as Robert Stapleton, ever since I joined this discussion. The same passage still has not come true. And the day of the seventh seal is ticking away.
Even the Bear Stearns thing has passed out of the news.
As for Weinland not saying nuclear bombs, I refer you to the March 1 sermon>
The quote starts around 1:08 in the sermon.
“When Washington DC doesn’t exist anymore. When several port cities in the United States doesn’t exist anymore, and we have some of the things take place. Nuclear weapons that go off in some areas. You know, Katrina, there, crippled that part of the country. We have no comprehension what it’s going to be like when Chicago, New York, San Francisco, and Houston Texas, and Los Angeles, and different places like that, have nuclear weapons go off in them.“
My, isn’t that interesting. Starting from 1:08:00, the end of the March 1 sermon has been chopped off, on the PKG site. I wonder why that is? Hmm?
Checking my downloaded copy of the March 1 sermon, yep, he definitely said nuclear weapons.
Which explains why Weinland’s followers are now calling me a liar. Because the quote has been edited out of the sermon that’s gone up on the site, it’s as if it never happened, in their minds.
But it did happen. And I still have the proof that Weinland said it. Anyone who still doesn’t believe me, I can send you the file (intact) where Weinland says it. He chopped the last 26 minutes of the sermon, from the March 1 sermon that has been posted on the site.
Hey Renton!
OH! The turmoil in WCG over these scriptrues in Acts 15!! It literally split our congregation.
I, of course, believe the words of ACT 15 as they read. I believe we are all saved by Faith in Jesus Christ, without circumcision or keeping the “laws” of Moses. Because I know if you follow Christ, and have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, you follow the laws of Christ. And His laws go far beyond the “laws of Moses”…. (This is a very deep subject, which people on this blog probably don’t want to hear about. It is taking away from watching RW.)
But MY family who are members of various splinter groups… DO NOT believe these scriptures as they are written. RW and any of his followers DO NOT believe Acts 15 simply as it is written. There is ONE verse in ACTS 15 that says this: “For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.” They believe this ONE verse means the “laws of Moses” were “understood” even by the gentiles…the laws of Moses were NOT Unknown to the gentiles, so the gentiles WOULD in fact get themselves circumsized and follow the laws of Moses, even though the Desciples say they don’t need to for salvation…
Now I have not read any of the splinter groups literature in several years so their explaination may have changed. But in 1994, this was the big debate and explaination given.
This is where ….things get attached to salvation in these groups. They say, “Yes, repenting, believing in Jesus is the Christ, and baptism brings salvation. But you MUST also follow God’s Laws” And they mean the laws of Moses.
They like to argu saying you CAN’T Keep the laws of Christ without also keeping the law of Moses … Well…this is a HUGE study that takes YEARS to understand (at least for me)…. But I trust God and I know one greater than Moses came and His laws are greater than Moses’ laws.
This debate will go on till Christ returns as far as I can tell, but my salvation is NOT at stake in this issue, so I don’t debate it.
Banncam
Forgot to add my email address:
Anyone who wants to listen to Weinland rant about how nuclear weapons are going to destroy several port cities in the continental US, email me at weinlandwatch@gmail.com and I will send you the unexpurgated file I downloaded on March 1.
Magisto, Robert doesn’t have the same burden of proof as Weinland. Ummm…. ROBERT isn’t claiming to be speaking for GOD! “your post is can be as controversial as Weinland himself” I think NOT!
Keep up the good work, Robert. Opinions or not, your summary there really does put into perspective how very little of what RW has said is actually coming to be.
And for the record, I am with Banncam. Nukes or no nukes, destruction, famine, whatever… I will never follow RW. I will follow my Savior as He leads. His name is Jesus.
Yeah, I don’t pay money to Junior’s church… Senior gave the money to the hurricane. Don’t you remember? He called a “meeting with the elders” to see if it was appropriate to help “others/outsiders” with WCG funds…. I don’t know if they were enthusiastic about it or not. They may have been…but just the fact that a Church …ANY CHURCH… would have to get an elders meeting together to decide the appropriateness of helping hurricane victims AMAZES me now that I’m free from that organization.
Our local church had “its” opinion of giving funds to outsiders…
The edited off 26 minutes from RW sermon!! I guess he got a carried away and had unintended Diarrhea of the mouth and they did a clean up job.
I’m glad you had transcribed the message!
I’ve notice las Saturday’s message is NOT up there yet. I will be RECORDING this coming Saturday’s live.
Banncam
Amen sister Katie!
:^)
I’m glad I have a copy of the original file, it backs up my transcription!
Please send me a copy of this Saturday’s sermon when you have it recorded Banncam. As a matter of fact, send copies to a couple of your friends too, just in case: The more copies of “the truth” that are floating around out there, the better, as Weinland paints himself further and further into a corner. Agreed?
Thanks!
Yes!
I have a few friends outside this blog praying for the deliverance of my family. I will send them a copy just in case my computer crashes.
I will send it to you as well.
Anyone can contact me banncam@yahoo.com if you want a copy sent to you…
Banncam
I just heard on a “recorded” radio interview with RW that nukes will hit various places. Starting in April….it may start in the very middle of April, but the 2 witnesses will be directly involved in the timing of the 4 big events…
He mentions Chicago, LA, NY….
Says UK will “take over” US, not as an ememy taking over a government, but as trying to help….
He said what sets him apart is “April 2008″…this is what sets him apart…
So…if not a nuke….something big is supposed to happen in April 2008
This radio show is called, “The Edge AM”
Banncam
When one looks back after reading the two the books, it’s easy to see just how absurd Ron’s claims are.
The thing about cult leaders… they can be very deceiving and it may take a bit of digging to uncover the truth… The WWCG took 6 or 7 years to finally debunk Herbert W. Armstrong…. and even with proof that he was completely false, many members still held on to his teachings… and so the splinter hopping saga began.
It’s now March 18— and NOTHING has come to pass like Ron said it would….. at least NOTHING that any one of us couldn’t predict.
If today doesn’t prove to anyone that Ron should be completely walked away from, I don’t know what will. I know he says nothing is going to “happen” today, but he’s made some pretty HEFTY predictions about events up until today…Time’s up. No doubt about it.
I think there are people here that can make some predictions that WILL come true…. Let me ask Weinland Watch and Ironwolf:
What do COG “Prophets” do after they make predictions that don’t come to pass?
As former members—– WW And IW.. probably remember the sermons when HWA said that God wasn’t ready because the church needs more money… that’s what it always came down to… God not making things happen because of the slacking in tithing… a classic!
I think now the layers of the onion will start to be pulled off.
WW– do you remember a letter that HWA wrote to the church after his wife died?
RW just said in the radio interview…the things that are happening before April are NOT for the world to understand…but the people of God’s Church and those who left…will understand..
This interview was in DEC 2007, so he thought at that time…some BIG stuff would be happening BEFORE April that those of us who have left COG would understand…
I assume he means….in March…
Banncam
I was reading in the book last night about the seven thunders, since yesterday was supposedly the opening of the 7th seal. Then today I was listening to the sermon where he covers the seven thunders. If you listen to this sermon http://www.rweinland.com/sermons/download/seven_thunders.mp3
At 54:27 is sounds like they edited something out of the sermon. I’m not sure what they chopped out, but he is in the middle of a sentence and it sounds like he is about to elaborate on something and then it gets back on track. Ya’ll listen and tell me if you hear it.
The Edge AM radio show I’m listening to…RW says… “UFO’s that people see flying around are NOT “air craft” they are demons”
The Edge Am radio show (I’m still listening) … The question was asked, “What is required for salvation”
He said, “Obey God, starting with the Sabbath”….the interviewer said, “That’s it?” and RW said “That’s It”…
Then he Elaborated saying (not a direct quote)… “The churches out there in the world will tell you other things, but the reality is…it is about obeying God”
Christ was not mentioned….
Banncam
Weinland Watch,
Not to my knowledge, but even though my wife attends she doesn’t donate, so this isn’t something I’ve looked at closely. (Unlike the COG-PKG, the WCG doesn’t require people to pony up to come to services, although I hear they do occasionally whine about it from the pulpit.)
Jim Hagerty,
My recollection is indeed that HWA pretty much blamed the congregation for their lack of readiness. I don’t say that as a prediction for what Weinland will do, but hearing it from him certainly wouldn’t surprise me.
Ron Weinland is a liar and a hypocrite. He condems the “traditional churches” of doing the same exact things that he is doing. The only thing that he was good for was getting me to read my bible a little more…..Thanks Ron.
Banncam–
good to hear you’ve picked up on the MAIN REASON Ron is false. He’s teaching a FALSE doctrine… one that doesn’t in anyway line up the Bible.
My point has always been– and i answered this question to a friend a couple of months ago: “If you were God, and you were going to send a prophet to the world… you would want his message–starting with salvation– to line up with your word, wouldn’t you?”
The Bible says that those preaching fale doctrines and prophecies should be accursed. (Galations 1:8-9) I think that’s going to happen sooner or later.
I’m loading up on exact quotes from what RW says to present them to my family in hopes they will see the falseness….
But as I’ve said before…I was was in WCG who STAYED when HWA prophecies did NOT occur so…I know there is a chance my family will make an excuse of some sort and hang in there…
Problem is…their faith is in a man and “obeying” rather than a risen savior…
:^(
Banncam
Banncam,
“But EVEN if he is right in his prophecies, I will not join his church, because my salvation is in Christ, NOT in any organization.”
This is the type of attitude I have also. By looking at your comments regarding the radio show you mentioned, I wonder if you know about Weinland’s site where you can hear all of his radio interviews. http://www.the-end.com
Magisto,
“Im going to let you guys in on a secret…It’s Aliens.
We are about to confirm that we have been in contact for some time.”
I have to ask if you are being serious or sarcastic?
Steady as She goes,
“A woman named Cassandra said there was to be major changes to the planet for the lifting of the consciousness of man to be of Christ like consciousness.”…”At that point, I said to myself, what the hell is going on? —- now my own girlfriend!”
I know exactly what you mean! I hold to this idea 100%. Something is coming, if not in april then soon. As I have said before, I believe that Weinland could be accurate, but not because he is a so-called prophet. I think there is more to this guy than we know. Then again he called just be another guy who sincerley believes this is truth, but is sincerley wrong. That conspiracy stuff is interesting isn’t it. But we can’t talk about that on this blog, I have already been warned.
IronWolf says:
“(Unlike the COG-PKG, the WCG doesn’t require people to pony up to come to services, although I hear they do occasionally whine about it from the pulpit.)”
Are the ministers of misery in the WCG still using Acts 5 the same way they used to I wonder?
Weinland Watch,
Detestable blackmail, those verses. I have not heard that they do.