According to Ron Weinland, the Seventh Seal has opened, yet so far nothing has happened that seems to be as dramatic as he promised in his writings. Still counting down the 30 days until the Great Tribulation is supposed to begin in earnest. Or perhaps not. In any case, the discussion parlor remains open!
Part 1 Basic info and links.
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5 FAQ
Part 6
More from RW’s message:
He is speaking about “changes in teachings”…changes in doctrines….God reveals new understanding…
“God revealed something later on, just like He’s revealed things at this time, later on. That’s why we didn’t have the technology during the times of Peter and Paul and some of them, it wasn’t for the purpose of being able to have these inspired tapes around then all we’d do is listen to tapes the rest of our life.”
I say:
WE don’t NEED “tapes”….we have the BIBLE….! The apostles left “words” for us to SEE the rest of our lives… Words to live by and read and the Holy Spirit who Christ said would be with us after he ascended to Heaven is WITH us to bring understanding. Except he believes we JUST CAN’T UNDERSTAND the words the apostles left behind. WE have to have HIS (RW) help to understand their words….
NO thank you! The power of the Holy Spirit is WAY more trustworthy than any man!
Banncam – is that from a sermon you are listening to where RW is stating that changes in teaching – changing in doctrine?? If so, when date is the sermon? That sounds scary – what the heck will RW come up with next to change????
I agree with you guys more than you think … don’t get me wrong. I simply am able to put myself in Ron W. shoes for a moment. Or your shoes for that matter when needed.
I actually never even heard of Ron W, H. Armstrong.. or the COG or any splinter groups at all until I did a Google search on “end of the world”.
What led me in that direction? Well … some friends of mine back in December were talking about the collapse of the US Dollar, rise of the Euro, free masons, new world order, Mayan calendars etc.
Now … being the “traditional” Christian that I am … personally don’t like the idea of Yellowstone national park blowing up and taking the world with it…. the end … no heaven … no afterlife etc.
But as I said before … that 25 foot tall graph that Al Gore shows us in his movie IS real … and is going to come to pass whether we like it or not unless the whole world seriously starts acting like YOU say some already do. The world needs to care…. and as I said before … we aren’t caring.
We are not going to stop these problems with ideals alone. Man HAS botched up this world … and as a mainstream Christian … I at LEAST know that is exactly what SATAN wants us to do and has wanted us to do since day one.
Now ask yourselves why God allowed Satan to do what he did to EVE who did what she did to ADAM … in the first place? That is something we can’t explain in no other terms than simply God “lets” Satin win some battles. That’s all.
Here is what I know and what Ron W has done for me. As a “traditional” Christian … I am trained that the primary mission is to go out into the world, spread the good news etc … convert people. Imagine my broken heart when both of my teenaged kids just recently told me that God is not real. They do not believe. I can’ help but believe that this has at least something to do with “Santa Claus”…
Ron suggests that people shouldn’t teach their kids Santa because when they find out he’s not real … what’s to say that other guy with the beard isn’t real neither.
I used to be with those that didn’t think it mattered … no harm done right? Well… there is harm done. Meanwhile .. I can’t help but think that the parents who don’t have these issues with their kids may simply believe it’s just a matter of good vs. bad parenting and couldn’t possibly be due to a set up adapted pagan ritual. Again… just what Satin wants.
But I realize the debate here is Ron W… and the Church of God.
So for the record … I don’t think that the world revolves around the Church Of God or RW … nor do I believe that the “end” of the world revolves around the Church Of God or RW. The entirety of humanity is Gods Church.
Regardless … man has “botched” things up … and the planet is in real physical danger … and I would venture to guess that many … many people are in emotional danger.. and that is exactly what Satan wants.
Go ahead …. be tempted to do what most people do … and dismiss talk of Satan under the umbrella that God is our shield always …. What happens when God himself is forsaken by the majority of man? Then what?
It’s TOO LONG to explain here…but RW’s explaination of Lazarus and the Rich Man is SOOOO VERY WRONG.
Luke 16:19-31
I’ve heard a lot of “stories” in my day….this is a new one….
Abraham’s Buxom isn’t a place….it’s a KNOWING….its KNOWING he was in God’s Family
The sermon is on the website:
http://www.cog-pkg.org/audio/
And you he talks about it in the Mystry of God Revealed part 2
It is about half or 3/4’s of the message….
YES!! It is all NUTS!!
I’m at the end now…and he is poking fun of Christmas and Easter…
Benncam,
You are driving on your way downtown the morning of April 17th … you feel flush … a “voice” in your head suddenly says “Turn arrund” …
What do you do? … dismiss this as a silly thought or will you believe that not unlike that sall voice in your head that sometimes says .. “yes this is the homeless man you should give a $1 to this time” … that this is in fact the Holy Spirit telling you to get out of dodge.
Personally … I believe and have faith in that if Ron is right… or if any prohet is right for that matter … that I have a direct line to the Holy Sprit anyway and am going to “know” what is right when I need to.
I’m guessing you believe that too. Maybe not.
Ron claims that that is what is supossed to happen within his church and then later with everyone else once the world starts to fall apart.
Me … I see many signs in his world that something is happening now. Stranger things that even the USA coming to an abrupt end in less than a year. If onlyone small part of what Ron says comes to pass … I cannot dismiss that it was not part of Gods plan that way.
Fate:
(Pardon the digression, Ironwolf, but the end time stuff needs to be addressed imho.)
I would suggest you look a little further into the recently uncovered facts regarding the Global Warming Phenomenon.
Especially of note is the fact that not only earth, but other plantets are growing hotter. Now I really don’t think we can blame the Martians and their gluttonous SUV’s on this one. things are cylical…20 yrs ago they were freaked out about “global cooling and the next ice age”.
However, it nicely facillitates the coming Carbon Tax.
You said:
“Here is what I know and what Ron W has done for me. As a “traditional” Christian … I am trained that the primary mission is to go out into the world, spread the good news etc … convert people. Imagine my broken heart when both of my teenaged kids just recently told me that God is not real. They do not believe. I can’ help but believe that this has at least something to do with “Santa Claus”…
Ron suggests that people shouldn’t teach their kids Santa because when they find out he’s not real … what’s to say that other guy with the beard isn’t real neither.”
I know this is really “out there” for some Christians….but I DIDN’T teach my kids about Santa Clause. Obviously, it was because of where I came from of course, but Also….I wanted honesty…above all… SO, if you are Christian…I don’t know how you can justify teaching Santa Clause in that it is all a lie… ALTHOUGH you may be able to do it totally truefully if you REALLY exlpore and research the FIRST and REAL guy that the character is based on. But this is a HUGE subject. And I know a lot of really great Christ followers that thought Santa was real till they were about 11 so I don’t accept it is SUCH a big problem.
King Solomon is a GREAT example of a man who DID NOT FOLLOW God fully as his father David had done.
So a father can COMPLETELY follow God and his son still has free moral agency to choose NOT to…
I also have teens…and the hardest thing to do is to realize they have minds of their own and I cannot “SAVE” them. We ALL, ALL of humanity has to prove God exists ourselves…even if we’ve been taught that he does! And if they choose NOT to believe, that is between them and the Lord.
YOU are right Sue!
http://www.denisdutton.com/cooling_world.htm
check it out….the last paragraph is funny….trying to “melt” the Arctic ice caps…
Todaysfate – You bring up interesting points. There is nothing wrong with questioning your ‘traditional’ Christian upbringing and some of the ideas that go along with it. I think more Christians should do that. Just because you didn’t tell your kids the truth about Santa Claus doesn’t mean that you hurt your kids irreparably. I’m not saying that Christians should lie to their kids about Santa Claus either.
I know this because I lived through the church culture RW so much touts as ‘the true church’. I had more damage as a child than you can imagine growing up under some of the same ideas that RW spews. My parents didn’t lie to me about Santa Claus, but there were enough other lies, half-truths, and cover ups to go with this type teaching than you can ever imagine. As well as emotional and spiritual abuse that I have no time to go into and very few people would care about anyway.
I think we have plenty of evidence that man has botched things up. And that includes Christians, unfortunately, many times we seem to lead the way at botching things up. But, that doesn’t mean that ultimately God has to smash everybody and Jesus has to return in blood, guts and gore to save us from all of our stupidity. We simply don’t – as humans – even when we think we do – understand everything that God has in mind or how God works and plans to carry out everything written in the Bible.
If you really focus on what Christ did the first time he was here and listen and pay attention to his words and the recorded gospel accounts of his life, (keeping RELIGION and all that is associated with it out of the mix for a while) you get a real sense of hope that he was talking about us – as believers having the real possibility of living life as he originally intended it to be lived. Even in the imperfection of this world, and even in the midst of evil and all of it’s influences. We will never reach perfection – but – if as Jesus followers we begin to live as he lived we could radically change the world….radically change the world – because he gives us the ability through the Holy Spirit to be radically changed from the very innermost parts of our being.
I come down hard on people like RW because they profess to be teachers and representing God. They leave a wake of disaster in their path because they DO NOT LIVE as Jesus did. You can listen to his sermons and hear it. He is puffed up, full of pride and quite literally needing help.
LOL
Yes, last words of last pgh esp, aren’t we all getting a bit weary of these “grim realities”?
Do I hear an amen, brother Ironwolf? ; >
RW keeps going on and on about the great apostocy in the church which was Satan’s attack on the church….etc. Building his case on why WCG split up…so many people who left or are in other splinters are decieved by Satan…EVERYTHING in his teaching is about HIS church because he believes HIS church is the ONLY TRUE CHURCH
He can’t recognize the attacks on Christianity ALL over the world…
He believes “so called Christianity” in the world is led by SATAN…it is a world full of Satan influenced religions…SO…if “so called Christianity” was Satan influenced church…WHY are Christians ALL over the world being tormented, inprisoned, killed? There was a priest killed in Iraq last week. There are MANY Christians put in prison in China all the time…and OTHER nations too. In the US there are attacks as well, some work places you can’t wear a cross on your lapel, can’t pray in school, can’t pray in city or county bldgs, can’t have the 10 Commandments posted…ONE DAY…the bldgs in the sepreme court may have to have the scriptures removed…our dollar bill may have to be ‘redesigned’ to remove “IN GOD WE TRUST”…
RW says, the “so called Christians” are NOT being judged by God right now because God isn’t working with them now… SO these problems must not be God’s judgement….
If Satan is doing this evil against the Christian church…it would be a “house divided”….Christ said it wouldn’t stand… Matthew 12:25
Sue …
Ron Weinland predicts a grim reality … correct me if I am wrong in thinking that the point of this blog is to debate the validity of his claims based on what is happening in the world today … and not mearly comparisons to the PAST COG church… Herbert W Armstrong … etc.
Is this an RW, HWA, COG bitch seasion … or serious discussion on the actual prophesies and the posibilities they raise for us NOW … and not people living in the 70’s?
I thought this blog was to expose the kook any way he exposes himself…
Maybe I’m wrong.
Banncam,
Good points. If Ron is who he says he is … he won’t believe that his church is the one true church by the time this is over.
I believe that it is possible that he could be a prophet and have yet to learn what some of us already know.
I have a friend who believes that the Catholic church is the only true church. Thats why that have that BIG chair there in the Vatican for him to sit on when he comes.
Thats kinda like saying that WalMART is the only true retail store.
I guess I got on here to find out what people were saying about what RW is teaching and to gather more information so that I can have informed discussion with my family when the time is appropriate.
What possibilities do the prophecies raise for us now – even if they are right? What are we supposed to do? We can’t change anything that is going to happen. I don’t consider this a bitch session, but a search for information session and a conversation about how this impacts our lives – which also includes the past for some of us.
Yeah, there are other churches who try to say they are the only true ones.
It’s sad. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit identifies us as the True Church…
WE’RE everywhere!
:^)
In all fairness … “kook”more accurately describes that preacher Barack Obama has been trying to distance himself from this week.
Yeah, my past with WCG & HWA….is part of this…
There is no way around it. RW even has a whole page on his website dedicated to HWA and his teachings…
The past is being repeated…that is what so many people “considering” following RW needs to know. That’s why those of us who know, need to speak up
That WAS a wacky tirade! WTH????? I think some of these preachers…including RW…..get high on adrenaline when they are speaking and then just run wild with words. Maybe they like to hear themselves talk and get people all whipped up in a frenzy…
I personally do not take the all or nothing approach to Ron W. I believe God can reveal what he wants, when he wants and in any way he wants to. Yes … I believe that I too can serve a purpose I do not understand … nor may never know about when it happenes.
I personally think the article I read about the unexplained disapearance of honeybees across north america is more ominous than a nuke going off in New York… why … well because I don’t live in New York but I do umm… need food that I can afford.
Is this Gods work? … well… silently and quietly cutting off food supply would be one way to take out 2/3 of humanity. Kinda like a thief in the night you could say.
No fear … science will figure out what is really causing the bees to be gone.. and we can all starve to death or go poor paying for bread knowing there is no God.
You said: “God can reveal what he wants, when he wants and in any way he wants to. Yes”
You’re right about that. He can use a donkey.
Marie:
“I think some of these preachers…including RW…..get high on adrenaline when they are speaking and then just run wild with words. Maybe they like to hear themselves talk and get people all whipped up in a frenzy…”
Come on Marie … you don’t think Moses didn’t do that? Jesus? What about when Jesus stormed the market?
Don’t you think you would need to be whipped up in a frenzy in order to walk across a parted Red Sea?
I don’t expect they would spew out a bunch of racist, hate filled, crazy talk that went in circles. But, I could see Moses whipping people in a frenzy to walk through a sea….can you imagine???? I’d need a whippin of some sort!
I guess it would have technically been Aaron doing the speaking, as Moses didn’t seem to like it so much.
A few people have tried to bring it up on here lately … Seriously … I’ll go there … What the heck…
What IF …
The U.S government is indeed about to reveal the existence of…. get ready … “aliens” among us. That’s right … lizard men… Martians… etc… You know … the people behind the new world order … illuminati… the ones pulling all he strings.
Perhaps the Pope is scheduled to be on hand to indeed confirm that the existence of such things is “OK” with the church and does not contradict the teachings of the Bible. … At least not the hidden books that have been kept under lock and key for 1500 years.
Seriously … this is about the most preposterous, far fetched … crazy thing that could never happen. But if it does…. would comply totally with the SHOCK AND HORROR predicted by Ron W. Much of the world would be divided and in chaos OVERNIGHT.
Sure … Katti Dauer was asked in her radio interview about these theories … her answer … aliens = demons = satan.
I am wondering if the average joe on the street would be more willing to accept the existance of “aliens” over that of “demons”. Hmmm…
banncam,
i know you believe you are “saved”, i also was “saved” at one time. Do you believe that once you are saved, always saved? My mother who believes in God, but does not try to live a christian lifestyle and never really ever did, was once saved. She does not believe she will go to heaven because she hasn’t tried to live a Godly live. When i was a young Christian I told her I believe she was “saved” because she asked Jesus into her live. To make a long story short, I have later changed my mind and believe that ron is right, most religions are wrong to believe its not “works” but “faith” that get you to heaven.
Dewayne,
I tend to agree on that. I am increasing becoming more turned off by the idea of a free pass… that is not meant to be the point.
While I do believe that believing gets you into heaven … I also believe that your works matter in the sense that you are rewarded or punished based on what you do.
For instance … I believe that a divorcee who leaves a marriage prematurely or for selfish reasons … will never be happy again in a relationship on this earth. That’s just one example … the first I could think of. Are you forgiven.. Sure … but do not believe for minute that our immoral actions go unpunished.
Yes.. Sounds like karma … but people should be just as afraid to experience “hell” on this earth as they would be to experience it in say … Hell.
Todaysfate –
you’ve got a couple good points.
1) RW can be who he says he is without being 100% right, but then who knows what else he’s wrong about, and there’s no point worrying about what he says until the pope starts eating babies, aliens land, or nukes go off.
2) you’ve said: “Is this an RW, HWA, COG bitch seasion … or serious discussion on the actual prophesies and the posibilities they raise for us NOW … and not people living in the 70’s?”
And I essentially agree – the point of this blog is not to debate whether all you other Christian believers are “saved” for faith or works or whatever, the point at hand is Ron’s validity, and seeing as you can’t prove your salvation either way, I’d rather not sift through endless justification about it.
Dewayne,
I guess we shouldn’t go into “saved” discussion, as it isn’t what this forum was designed for.
But I do believe once saved always saved. But what happens, is people “believe” they are saved because they said a few lines in the bible, that they were saved.
I believe being “saved” someone WHOLE life is TRANSFORMED…you are NOT the same ever again….that is what I experienced when I became saved. It isn’t a “feeling” emotions don’t last. It truly is a different person under my skin. The ONLY way to know if you are saved is knowing the “old” you and seeing a “new you” everyday for the rest of your life.
I totally disagree about “earning” your way to heaven/salvation. There are pleanty of scriptures saying it is only by grace we are saved. Grace cannot be earned.
RW (getting back on subject) and the other splinter groups would have you believe you have to “do something” in order to be saved….they do not accept the grace of God for salvation….the DEATH of Christ is good, but JUST not good enough to be in God’s Kingdom.
Your mother may be saved, I have NO way in knowing but the scripture that says “don’t grow weary in doing good” is there because sometimes we do grow weary in doing good…but our faith and the Holy Spirit, will carry us during those lows. Then, before you know it….we are back at it, doing good again, and no longer weary.
Happy Good Friday Everyone!
Yes, Happy Good Friday…!
I’m Catholic and considered at one point to stop going to church on sunday, stop beleiving in the trinity and beleiving that Christ was no longer actually present in the bread and wine after consecration as we Catholics do because of RW. Well today at 3PM I will be going to church to KISS a wooden cross traditionally which it totally voluntary as a symbol of my love and appreciation for what Chirst did for us. I know most of you are not Catholic and feel that we go it all wrong but I just thought I’d share – See ya all in heaven..HOPEFULLY
I’ll be there…
I TOTALLY believe the Lord knows your heart… Have you ever looked at a photo of your kids or dead grandparent and felt your heart strings pull so much you kissed the photo? It didn’t mean you were sick as RW would say, it didn’t mean you worshiped those people as RW would say, it ONLY meant that you LOVED those people. You cherish them…
You can’t wear a cross in RW (or splinters) church…they believe it is an idol….An idol is something “worshipped.” A cross is a symbol of someone we worship…. If you hang a picture of your kids or other people or statues of something on your wall….do you worship it? I doubt it…
The kiss to the wooden cross is an act of worship … not to the wooden cross but to the ONE who you are worshipping in the act.
I’m not Catholic, but I have several friends who are and they’ll see you and me in Heaven.
“….stop beleiving in the trinity and beleiving that Christ was no longer actually present in the bread and wine after consecration as we Catholics do because of RW.”
Actually, Weinland teaches (as did the old WCG) that Catholics believe they are literally eating flesh and blood (that “you shall have no abominations of the flesh” verse forget where it is), which means they are (in CoG terms/minds) cannibals.
For anyone questioning why we are talking about WCG, HWA et al, it is very relevant to the discussion of the CoG-PKG; HWA’s teachings and the WCG is what Weinland came out of (he was a minister in the WCG, as was stated earlier on in the discussion). CoG-PKG, as with any of the splinters, are all fruit from the same poisoned tree….some of it more poisonous fruit than others.
Yes WW!
You are right. The deeper into RW teachings, the more people should KNOW they need to leave and walk away.
It boggles the mind why anybody would continue to follow him…
He said on that one sermon I know you will remember it… “I have hand picked things and put them on the website, you have ALL you need right there on the website to be in unity with God’s church…You don’t need to go anywhere else for information” (not direct quote, but REAL close to his exact words)
So…he REALLY doesn’t want any of his members reading outside material.
They could get “confused”.
When I first left WCG years and years ago, my father told me not to read any “outside” literature and then told me not to read the churches newpaper (I can’t remember what it was called) because it was explaining why it had made these changes. He wanted me ONLY to read the OLD church material when HWA was alive, and then his groups info…(I think it was called “Global” or something)…. HE didn’t want me to “investigate” religions or messages outside of that…
Well I told him and it still holds true today, the TRUTH will hold up to scrutiny. If it is TRUE….it will not collapse under the weight of questions…
You would think if something dramatic was going to happen it would be on ‘pagan Good Friday’ and ‘pagan Easter’ when all of those poor decieved souls sitting in church can really find out who the ‘real’ end time prophet ‘really’ is….sorry for the sarcasm – Happy Good Friday and Easter/Resurrection to all you who celebrate!
Todaysfate,
Then what? Then, both Yahweh and Lucifer take their rightful places among the pantheon of other mythical gods of which humanity has also managed to disabuse itself.
The knowledge science brings carries with it an awesome responsibility. Whether you like it or not, we live in a world where man’s power has been vastly amplified by our ability to do science. You can stick your head in the sand and wish on your magic skygod to make it all go away. Or, you can open your eyes, face reality, and shoulder your rightful burden of responsibility for what the world is and what it can be. Unfortunately, at this point your attitude appears to be inclined to the former.
Banncam,
Just to reiterate: The purpose of this thread is to discuss the validity of Ron Weinland’s claim that he is a true prophet of God. My purpose in starting it is to give him plenty of public rope with which to hang himself. (Figuratively speaking, of course.) Not out of a desire to gloat, but as an object lesson for those who would put their trust in such “holy men,” including, by the way, the authors and editors of the Bible.
If you believe fairy tales. Other than that, I want a meeting with God’s spokesdonkey.
For the same reasons that other prisoners of conscience are being tormented, imprisoned, and killed. Christians don’t have a monopoly on persecution, although they often portray it like that, as you just did.
Would it be cool with you if a Satanist wore a Baphomet or a Wiccan wore a pentacle on their lapel to work with you? What if that person were a school principal? A doctor? A judge?
These are public institutions funded by taxes paid by every American regardless of creed. We are literally forced to pay them, on pain of jail and other penalties. Now, it has been established that children in public school are “captive audiences” to the teachers and administrators there. Therefore, while courts have upheld the right of students to assemble and pray on their own time and initiative, mandating prayer in public schools is a violation of church-state separation. Again, if you don’t have a problem with the mandated prayers of your religion in public schools, then why not also have the five-times daily Muslim call to prayer over the public address system in public schools, and also large plaque of the Wiccan rede, “An it harm none, do as ye will,” at the front of the classroom? If you say no to these things, then I say you are a hypocrite.
As far as I am aware, there are references to the Ten Commandments in the edifices and structure of the Supreme Court, along with references to many other great lawgivers, such as Hammurabi. As long as the references are not placing one religious tradition above all others, then I have no problem with them. If they do place Christianity or any other religious tradition above all others, then I think they do violate the intent of our founders and our Constitution and should be removed. In this country, I am not under the laws of the Bible or the Ten Commandments, I am under the laws of men, and the courthouse is where I go to be judged by the laws of men. I do not violate any law in this country by breaking any of the ten commandments except “don’t steal,” “don’t murder,” and “don’t lie” (and then only under contract or oath.) And those concepts are hardly original to your precious Ten Commandments.
Although you don’t like to be reminded of it, you Christians already “redesigned” our dollar bill to include In God We Trust in 1956 during the fearmongering McCarthy era. That’s a mere 52 years ago. On coins it goes back to the religiosity of the Civil War, but hardly to the founding of our country. Our original, noble, secular motto chosen by our founding fathers and approved for use on the Great Seal of the United States in 1782 was E Pluribus Unum, “From Many, One.” A motto I still stand behind. As a patriotic American, I say without reservation that I do not trust in your deity or anyone else’s, and I do not stand behind your theistic, fractious, and ultimately unconstitutional motto that you and your ilk have rammed down the throat of our great, pluralistic society.
Debate these matters with me if you will, but in email: ironwolf@dangerousgames.com
That’s what I’m saying Marie…If traditional Christianity were lead by the Devil…and God is bringing judgement….Seems to me He’d like to make a statement that is unequivical (sp?) against a Satanical influenced worship…
That was quick! And continuing with the “250-300 messages and time for a new page” concept, please continue the discussion here.