Ron Weinland: Discussion Part 7
According to Ron Weinland, the Seventh Seal has opened, yet so far nothing has happened that seems to be as dramatic as he promised in his writings. Still counting down the 30 days until the Great Tribulation is supposed to begin in earnest. Or perhaps not. In any case, the discussion parlor remains open!
Part 1 Basic info and links.
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5 FAQ
Part 6
March 18th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
you guys will think i’m crazy when i say this, but here goes.
I would give ron at least till the end of April and maybe till May 17/18.
My reason for this is because he has said that God may “test” the church for 30 days, he said this prob about 2 months ago, saying he hoped this was not the case. I will say though that he has said for several years that the proof will be in April, and that is when he said he will go back to radio interviews, if he is proven true or false. I will almost guarantee that there will not be a nuke attack on April the 17/18, because the pope will be in the USA from the 15-20 in major cities like New York and Washington DC, and the pope is suppose to stay alive until September 29th 2011! So taking all that into consideration the nuke attack could very well happen before the 17/18 of April, to keep the pope alive and give him more to talk about, ron has also said that this 30 days of silence in heaven will NOT be silence on earth! He has said that the thunders will be getting louder and louder maybe this 30 days could be the time the pastors are killed in the splinter groups.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
ron has said that there will be 4 trumpets that happen very quickly, 1 of them will be in the seas, he said it will destroy 1/3rd of the ships which would hurt the military, lets also not forget that it will be hard to retaliate against a nuke attack by terrorist, because they are not a country. This could make it very hard for the US to go down with a fight, since they can’t fight terrorist very well, 9-11 should be evidence of that!
March 18th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
ww,
i believe it was you that said that today would prove ron wrong because, the dow (stock market) was up like 400 which makes our economy in good shape.
First of all the stock market is only up because it knew the fed would do what it did, so it gain some confidence. Do you know how much this pisses off the rest of the world? It is money that we owe them that we are messing with! When and if we get attacked, the EU will love to “take us over” and stop us from deciding how the world will do business.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
no one else is up and talking right now so i will also say something the the woman who got the letter from an ex.
I like this site and use it daily. I decided to use this site and talk on it because, i wanted to check out on ron weinland, i have read his books listened to all his interviews and every sermon for the past 9 months. I could see where you would want to prove your ex wrong, because you feel he is a nut! On the other hand this site is not telling you everything about ron and most of it is untrue and/or not proven yet. Ironwolf has also not really said a whole lot to disprove ron, he likes this subject because ron can be proven true or false! I’m not saying that ironwolf believes that ron is who he says he is, or that there is even a God, but he hasn’t said so much that you should keep agreeing with him either, like you said over and over in your post. I think you should read the books and listen to some sermons to make your own opinion, unless you don’t believe in God or in the end times mentioned in the bible!
March 18th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Hello to all,
My first post to this blog. I have been reading with interest. I think it will not take long for the true nature of RW’s prophecies to come to light. It might take March, April or May - but soon - I would think from what he has written - we would all hear thunders ringing in our ears and be shocked out of our shorts because of all the horrible things that will have happened - to prove his theories one way or the other.
I have my opinion on what he is saying and frankly, I think the guy is a nut. End time theories have been in abundance since Christ rose from the dead and ascended to the Father. RW’s stuff is mostly regurgitated garbage with a 21rst century twist.
For those of you who are Christian that post to this blog - Read John 1:1-14
. If RW actually believes that he is the end time ‘prophet’ telling all of us when Christ is returning and all the horrible things that will happen to us between now and then, you would think he would have a clue about who Christ is. RW (being a TRUE prophet) should know and teach that Jesus Christ has always existed - “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning……The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only who came from the Father, full of grace and truth…”
If RW actually believes that Jesus Christ has not always existed and came into ‘being’ at his physical birth he does not understand the clear message from the Bible about Jesus. How in the world can RW be considered a serious spokesman for God - telling us when Jesus is coming and what Jesus is going to be doing when he gets here when RW is confused about Jesus’ first appearance?
I, too, as others who have posted here have stated - have been burned by this sort of preaching before. I won’t fall for it a 2nd time, no matter what state the world may be in.
RW is to be pitied. He needs our prayers.
RW’s notoriety will fade…unfortunately there will be a wake of disaster in his path - real people with real lives that will be broken into a million pieces that will have to be somehow put back together.
It’s refreshing to read your posts and the true searching that you all have for truth.
Later,
Marie
March 19th, 2008 at 12:02 am
Marie, ron has an answer for almost any bible verses you throw at him. You should ask him about the verses you are talking about and see what his answer is. I believe there is only 1 God and he has always been, so if God made Jesus wouldn’t he have a beginning? I don’t understand what is so hard to believe that Jesus had a beginning, Jesus did die for 3 days, could God be dead for 3 days and bring himself back to life at the same time?
March 19th, 2008 at 12:22 am
The Bible says nothing about Jesus being ‘created’. He always existed along with the Father. They are One. We cannot completely understand or explain this - but - this is what the Bible teaches about Jesus.
Jesus was both God and man. He was subject to death because he came in the flesh. He willingly subjected himself to this way in order that we could experience salvation - so that we could be free from sin and death through his death and resurrection. Jesus could definately die for 3 days and rise from the dead because he was also divine - as the Son of God. The grave could not hold him. All of this Jesus did to fulfill prophecy and so that we could know Him and know the Father.
I’m sure that Ron has an answer for almost any Bible verse I could throw at him. Just because he has an answer doesn’t mean it is correct.
Someone who claims he is a spokesman from God should have a clear understanding of what Christ was doing here the first time he came. I see very little time devoted in RW’s writing concerning Jesus Christ - it’s all about end time prophecy and the establishment of the kingdom of God according to RW.
As RW states - time will tell - and not too much time either.
Later
Marie
March 19th, 2008 at 3:25 am
What is supposed to have happened in March? This was all gonna go down starting in April. Why is May being brought into it as the start?
To me it was pretty clear cut, and you are muddying it up. I am not even sure of a specific date in April. I thought I read/ listened to most of Ron’s stuff so I’m lost as to where this stuff is coming from.
On the other hand if nothing happens in April then Ron is false no matter what happens in May.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:37 am
I don’t know whether Ron is true or false. The only thing that will prove this either way is what happens in the next few months. I have tried now for about 6 months to read as much as I can and prove logically that he is a false prophet, but I haven’t been able to. I haven’t been able to prove that he is the real deal either.
As Dewayne alludes, for all the verses that people keep quoting on this blog, there is an explanation from either HWA, splinters or Weinland which are plausible. Things like Jesus was the word, therefore he has always existed, no man shall know the hour or the day etc etc are good examples but there are plenty of others. Weinland and his followers know the bible intimately, you are not going to find something that is going to make them suddenly go:”Wow, you got me there. We never considered that before.”
I agree with HWA on one thing and that is that the bible is a coded book. There are some basic things in there which are absolute but much of it can be taken a hundred different ways. As I have read more about the history of traditional christianity it has dawned upon me that the traditional churches are really quite lost on what the truth is. Pick up any bible concordance and read the notes. They all say the verse could mean this or it could mean that. Some things like the trinity seem improvised to me. I even got sent a book from family ‘proving’ the trinity from scripture but when I read it, it didn’t prove it to me at all - it seemed to be stretching what was being said and leaping to conclusions to justify the position taken by the church at the council of Nicea. Now I admit I could be wrong about this. But my point is we have been taught certain scriptures are saying a certain thing for so long, we find it difficult to be unbiased when considering what they might really be saying.
For me the cutoff isn’t 17 April but probably within a couple of months after that date. If 2009 comes around and nothing has happened, then certainly the whole thing is bogus and some questions need to be answered to determine how this kind of thing could have happened.
March 19th, 2008 at 5:51 am
Marie Says: “I’m sure that Ron has an answer for almost any Bible verse I could throw at him. Just because he has an answer doesn’t mean it is correct.”
Marie, what makes you think you are correct. Yes there are alot of verses, if read with an already preconceived idea, that seem to alude to the fact that Christ may have been around before his birth, but it depends how you read them (especially after they have been translated into english by people with a preconceived idea in their head), for example, being predestined isn’t pre-existence. For example God said to Jerimiah…
Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Does this mean that Jeremiah pre-existed? Of course not. God is beyond time and space, he knew you before you were born also. Besides, how many times did God the Father (Yahweh) have to say he was ONE before the birth of Jesus for people to take notice?
ISAIAH 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
God is telling you straight from his mouth. Will you listen, or will put your hands over your ears and say “LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA”, simply because it goes against everything you have been taught by men?
God bless.
March 19th, 2008 at 5:57 am
oh i feel like i am going to throw up!!!!!!! isn’t this how it always goes with a false prophet leader. People give him more and more and more time. You are absolutely crazy to think that Ron’s prophecies said that this disaster of whatever kind will be in May. PUH– LEASE! Don’t do this. Don’t drag this crap out. Next the gullible will be saying we have till the end of 2008. NOT what RW said at all! We should have already seen and will be seeing major fireworks for 29 more days leading up to the biggie. Didn’t I recently read 4 major events would take place in April?? His most recent sermons have specified April even more so than the books. Don’t let RW “Armstrong” you, too.
March 19th, 2008 at 6:05 am
By the way, yes there are scriptures describing the creation of Christ. He was created, he was the begotten son of the father (note verse 4)
HEBREWS 1:1 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made (ginomai) so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Note the meaning of greek word ginomai used in verse 4….
ginomai (Gi-no-mī)
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
a) of events
3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
a) of men appearing in public
4) to be made, finished
a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5) to become, be made
God is eternal.
March 19th, 2008 at 6:21 am
Please don’t get me wrong that I am giving RW more time to fulfill his prophecies. I am saying he is already a false prophet because he is determining himself to be ‘a prophet’ and to believe any of his prophecies have credence you have to believe his construed theology of scripture in other parts of the Bible. His thinking on scripture is suspect at best.
We can debate obscure meaning of scripture all day long. Just because the trinity doctrine doesn’t make sense to you doesn’t mean that it isn’t the truth….and I don’t hold my hands over my ears and go blahhh blaahhh blaahhh. There are some people in the world that seriously study for biblical truth and want to please God with the way in which they live their lives that do not believe how RW believes.
To be clear, I am saying that I believe he is a nut job. Let’s see…..I was told as a 9 year old child that my folks might have to leave my little sister behind while we all went to Petra because the tribulation was on the way because the bible says…..”Woe to you with suckling child…….” Scared the you know what out of me….I had nightmares for years about what would happen to my family, myself. I was told I would not graduate from high school, get married and have children because we were fleeing sometime before 1975.
If you do some research and check it out you will find that much of this stuff has been said before - in different terms - in different times. Read up on the Millerites - the Great Disappointment.
This type of prophetic vision has happened over and over and over. The guy has an interpretation of the Bible that he cannot prove. RW won’t be proved out in the months of March, April, May or in 2011. He will just keep on changing his dates and what is going to happen when and sorrowfully, many will just keep on believin’ it because they are too afraid to believe anything else.
Keep on watching the sky…..RW doesn’t know anything about when this stuff will happen or HOW it will happen.
Later,
Marie
March 19th, 2008 at 7:12 am
Ironwolf,
Can you tell us how many people have been viewing (or at least subscribed) to this blog in the past couple of months? What about compared to say, November/December? I’m curious to know if you’ve seen a dramatic uptick in traffic lately (I’d love to get my hands on RW’s server traffic history)
hmm…just found something:
http://whois.domaintools.com/the-end.com
http://whois.domaintools.com/ronaldweinland.com
Checkout the links under indexed data (if you’re interested). Not sure how they get their demographics information.
March 19th, 2008 at 7:14 am
Dewayne,
I have no intention of “disproving” Weinland. The burden of proof is clearly on Ron to prove himself true.
My intention is to quite publicly let him disprove himself.
March 19th, 2008 at 7:16 am
Frank, Matt, Marie,
This is not the place to debate the details of the trinity, the eternal existence of Jesus, or any other particular doctrine. Futhermore, pasting passages of scripture into your comment is not only annoying: it is unnecessary. If you wish to reference a passage from the Bible, simply do so using standard notation and a link to that passage will automatically be added. For example: Malachi 2:3
.
Remember, this is a conversation salon, not Open Pulpit Night.
March 19th, 2008 at 7:22 am
article from 2005:
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45203
March 19th, 2008 at 7:26 am
Magisto,
With regards to your alien comment, I agree. But since the subject would be viewed as off topic, I will leave it at that.
Dewayne,
Your assessment of the economy is right on. Weinland is probably getting upset because he thought this would happen quicker, but now he starts to look bad because the plan is not working as fast. WallStreet is like a bunch of kids that (as one reporter put it) “sugar daddy Bernanke” gave them their weekly allowance, and then they rush out and spend it. See, all one has to do is to destroy the value of the currency and them the economy of that nation is done for, and that is what is going on. But by hiding behind the guise of saving the economy the devaluation of the dollar is ok.
I am in the U.S. Army and have some instruction on NBC (nuclear,biological,chemical) survival and possibilities. It would seem more likely that dirty bombs would be used, as one person on this post mentioned, it would be hard for terrorists to get their hands on a real nuclear device let alone get it to the proper location in the U.S. However this is assuming that the terrorists are the ones that would be doing this. Since I don’t believe Weinland is who he says he is, then where would he be getting information that has been confirmed by our own Gov. if not from “God.” Perhaps, he is just reading the reports that the government is putting out. Weinland names many cities by name, and those are the same cities the intelligence organizations have reported. Maybe he is part of something else, maybe he is completely false?
One other thing I would like to mention. If Weinland were a real Prophet than he would obviously know that the Earth has not been around for only 6000 years. Unless of course “God” is lying to him. Ironwolf, thought you might like that one.
March 19th, 2008 at 7:50 am
RC,
Traffic to this site has been steadily rising since I first started the Weinland thread back in November. Before that I averaged about 50 unique visitors per day. For the past couple weeks we’ve been getting about 300 unique visitors per day. In the past two days I’ve gotten about 600 per day. In the past two months, search engine traffic accounts for about 60% of the hits here, and the top search term leading people here is currently— you guessed it— “Ronald Weinland.”
March 19th, 2008 at 7:55 am
jonathon, rw never said the EARTH was around for only 6,000 yrs. He said that only MAN was around for 6,000 yrs. he said and im not quite sure on the exact amount of time but i think it was a couple of million years old. Facts straight please as we are talking about proving or disproving the FACTS of what someone is saying.
March 19th, 2008 at 8:03 am
Jonathan, I am no RW supporter, but I wanted to clairify that Ron teaches the earth is millions of years old, not thousands. He thinks that Genesis says “In A beginning” not in THE beginning. He teaches that the fall of Lucifer and dinos and such all came before the creation of man. I found all of this very interesting — it was one of the hooks that got me to read the rest of his books.
While I think the man is a total GOOF, I really think some of the theology is right on. Unfortunately, anything to do with salvation is WRONG and heretical.
March 19th, 2008 at 8:11 am
Ok, I apologize for stating that Weinland said the EARTH was only 6000 years old. Having said that, this still leaves the fact that millions of years is still vastly to short a period of time, not to mention that MAN only being around for 6000 years is still an absurd opinion.
March 19th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Yes Weinland teaches Gap Theory. In Worldwide days it was only Intelligent Design, and theories abounded amongst the laity as to whether the dinosaurs were “experiments” or “plants by Lucifer”. The ministers at the time (this was mid- to late ’80s) came down on the side of Lucifer. Gap Theory wasn’t even a gleam in the ministry’s eye at that time.
March 19th, 2008 at 8:26 am
==The Stock Market==
The stock market surged yesterday IN SPITE of the Fed rate cut. What is important to understand is that the reason the market is bad is because there are many international companies that issue public stock and some of them are flimsy to begin with. The Bear Stearns deal yesterday was a prime example of a weed and seed… a cyclical things.. that happens from time to time. It’s a good thing. As the shady companies get gobbled up, the market corrects itself.
There is no basis–none– to say that the US economy is on a downward spiral. Many COMPANIES are on a downward spiral. There’s no doubt about that, but the flimsy companies.. mostly banks with relaxed lending practices… dont’ last.
March 19th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Ironwolf—my traffic figures are half of yours, but the trends are identical. One wonders if the members are out there spreading the word?
If they are I would recommend people ask them about the reference to page 23 in the book 2008: God’s Final Witness: “…and the world will be shocked and in horror on the day that the seventh seal is opened.” Seventh seal’s been open for a while now and nope no shock or horror. What gives?
Weinland’s followers are maintaining it was only supposed to be a spiritual awakening (and they spout the “half hour of silence means thirty days” without even realizing how silly it sounds).
March 19th, 2008 at 8:38 am
????
Why would anyone give Ron until April or May to find out if he’s false??
Weinland WROTE and SPOKE that the predictions he’s made would come true EXACTLY LIKE HE SAID THEY WOULD… this included things BEFORE the Seventh Seal.. that didn’t happen.
If ANYONE reads the Bibe.. just the words…. they would see that God does not take away from what’s written and certainly DOES NOT ADD TO IT. In other words, when God says something is going to come to pass, he doesn’t change the rules half way through the game.
However, in Ron’s world of replacement theology, FANTASY and bunk doctrines.. anything seems to go.
March 19th, 2008 at 8:42 am
(Sorry to clog up blog, I)
Jonathan: the email I provided for you may be misleading as the O is actually a Zero…here it is again:
bit0xtra.thot@gmail.com
If you email me I can forward my question (s). Thx
March 19th, 2008 at 9:29 am
Matt said: ” it has dawned upon me that the traditional churches are really quite lost on what the truth is”
And he mentioned believing the bible is a coded book.
I don’t believe MOST churches are lost on the “truth” as the “Truth” is Christ according to scripture. They may be “lost” on other issues, which are not salvational.
The bible maybe is coded in “some ways” which Christ will clear up when he returns. The “coded” parts (if there are any) are NOT salvational…so we don’t NEEEEEED it decoded to know who Christ is/was and to follow him.
RW (HWA and splinters) would have you/me believe that there can never be disagreement between “churches” or somebody has got to be wrong. Everyone has to unequivically agree on everything and EVERY “code” or “unknown” MUST be KNOWN to be the TRUE CHURCH…
The disciples even disagreed Acts 15:36
Acts 15:39
Acts 28:25
Churches are going to have some WRONG things (beliefs) IN THEM. WCG had some WRONG teachings…so does RW. But the people DON’T have to agree, but still ATTEND them if they want to. The church we attend has NOTHING to do with salvation.
We don’t even HAVE to attend…yes yes I know the scripture…”Let’s not forsake the assymblying together”…but it isn’t a command…and we certainly don’t have to assymble with the SAME congregation all the time.
RW (and the other splinters) believe there is ONLY ONE TRUE Church….I happen to agree!
The ONE TRUE church are those with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, Who’s names are written in the book of life, who are part of the body of Christ, who are living sacrafices……And they ARE found in VARIOUS church buildings around the world….ON VARIOUS DAYS of the week.
March 19th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Traffic is probably up on this blog due to a number of factors - including the word being passed around from friend to friend. I heard about blog through a friend and passed along to others. I have family in RW group. I’m not worried the world will end as much as I am worried about their ‘world’ ending because they believe this kook and who knows what extent RW will go to keep from losing face when all of his predictions come down like a house of cards.
Later,
Marie
PS to Ironwolf. Didn’t mean to go off on a theological debate. Just pointing out to believe the guy (RW) would mean to believe certain theological arguments that most people find - should we say - a bit off the beam. It would make sense that most people wouldn’t give RW the time of day because of many of his biblical viewpoints. And as I stated earlier….these type of ‘prophets’ have been around before.
March 19th, 2008 at 9:42 am
RW (and splinters) just DON’T believe a person can be truly committed to following God…without ATTENDING a church….THEIR CHURCH.
They are simply wrong.
Only a person who looks himself/herself in the mirror and gets real with God (I would say “Lord” but these churches do NOT refer to God or Jesus as Lord…they use the word God and they use the word Christ, but they rarely or never use the word Lord) knows if they are committed to following him. WE as “onlookers” don’t know that. And aren’t called to make that determination.
RW (and splinters) just DON’T believe a person can be led by the Holy Spirit…unless you attend THEIR CHURCH.
They are simply wrong.
This would be too long of a discussion. I’ll just speak for myself….I have the filling of the Holy Spirit according to scripture. I will still have it while I NEVER attend his or any other splinter church.
RW (and splinters) just DON’T believe a church can really be TRUE unless it has ALL the answers…If they have ALL the answers what do they have faith in? Their answers? Their own understanding?
They are simply wrong.
There are some things they believe they have figured out, or God has allowed them to figure out. But so have “other so-called” Christians. But as “figured out” as it seems right now….we/they could be TOTALLY OFF when everything is revealed. But SO WHAT! Our faith is in a risen Lord, NOT in revealed understanding…..
March 19th, 2008 at 10:17 am
In RW sermon dated FEB 16th he is reading from his book page 176
He reads:
“The religions of the world have different views about God”. Even the groups in traditional Christianity (denominational or nondenominational) have different ideas about God. This is obvious since each believes its God teaches mankind something different from all others. And, we have already covered, each believes it is correct.
They are not! God is not divided. There is only one true God of all mankind, and He teaches mankind only one true way, one truth and one faith.”
Then he says….
“Isn’t that amazing…everybody thinks they are correct. If they thought someone else was correct…isn’t that where they would be?”
NO they wouldn’t! For one thing…HE can’t speak for ALL religions of the world. HE can’t even speak for Christianity in America.
This shows how much he DOES NOT look at Christianity in America!
Mainstream Christianity DOES preach the Gospel of Christ….THEY AGREE ON JESUS CHRIST. They may not agree on certain scriptures and they may have personal preferences on how their church environment will be…but these things are not salvational and they will say that from the pulpit.
I wonder when was the LAST time he listened to Christian radio. Just turned it on… Listen for a week. He would hear ALL kinds of sermons on “repentance” and “submitting to Christ”…. he may hear a speaker that says, “I don’t agree with other teachings on this or on that” but they will not say the other teachings are false….they will say the listener should make up their own mind.
Anytime RW or any other splinter talks about what “other” religions or churches teach….should be a RED flag. THEY don’t even listen or read ANY outside material. They wouldn’t even KNOW any names of mainstream speakers. They may know Dr. Dobson or Pat Robertson because they have appeared on National News. But they wouldn’t know very many names of religious leaders and they CERTAINLY wouldn’t know what they teach or believe.
March 19th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Just for clarification, since April 18th has passed without large scale calamitous result, can we say with collective agreement that this date has been revealed as contradictory to Ron’s predictions?
Or is there an offical hedging of this date, an attempt to wiggle-worm around it?
(Shall I take a poll?…Aye: Ron’s date is a flop Nay: No Ron is still right on target
Polls close Thurs 9am EST.
Email your Aye or Nay in Subject to:
bit0xtra.thot@gmail.com
Results to follow
March 19th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Sue, do you mean March 18th (you stated April 18) has passed without large scale calamious result?
I say - Ron’s date is a flop
Marie
March 19th, 2008 at 10:45 am
RW says in his message dated FEB 16th ……” In 1994 We (the WCG) were “spewed” out and the Holy Spirit was removed from us…from every one of us”….
The HOLY SPIRIT is the ONLY thing I can say that REMAINED with me when my world came unglued in 1994. The Holy Spirit was not taken from me….maybe him….only he knows.
WHAT a crock!
What about the scripture where Jesus said I will never leave or forsake you…
March 19th, 2008 at 10:46 am
FLOP FLOP FLOP
False prophet
False Prophet
False Prophet
March 19th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Marie
I was going by the April 18th date.
March 19th, 2008 at 10:50 am
OPPS I MEANT MARCH 18TH SO SORRY!!
(darn multi-tasking!!)
March 19th, 2008 at 10:54 am
(date corrected version, Ironwolf pls delete the above april one, thx & sorry for your time)
Just for clarification, since MARCH 18th has passed without large scale calamitous result, can we say with collective agreement that this date has been revealed as contradictory to Ron’s predictions?
Or is there an offical hedging of this date, an attempt to wiggle-worm around it?
(Shall I take a poll?…Aye: Ron’s date is a flop Nay: No Ron is still right on target
Polls close Thurs 9am EST.
Email your Aye or Nay in Subject to:
bit0xtra.thot@gmail.com
Results to follow
March 19th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Wow! An increase of approximately 120%. Most excellent indeed.
March 19th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Banncam, I think that you are right on! Some things in the bible may be coded so that we are not to understand until the time when God chooses to reveal them, we are not meant to know everything and God does have mysteries that He will reveal in HIS time. But, as for our salvation God would make something that important clear in the bible, he wouldn’t leave it up to interpretation, so you are right. One thing that bothers me about Ron’s 2nd book is the fact that he says that God’s intention for us is to someday be God’s ourselves yet in the Garden of Eden God told Adam and Eve not too eat from the Tree of Life and Knowledge or they would die. Satan told Eve to eat from the tree that they would become “like God”. That was satan’s lie. I brought this up before and Bzygirl said that the lie was “surely you won’t die” not that they would be like God. She was partly correct but my point was and is…. If God intended for us to be God’s or like God wouldn’t he have let them eat from the tree in the first place? But he commanded them not to. Am I wrong on this?
March 19th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Miss B - It’s hard to speculate at the best of times what God “would have done”, but Ron’s logic runs along the lines of, “OK, a 3rd of the angels rebelled and look what a mess that turned out to be, so I better test these mortals to see how they’ll use this Free Will before I go handing out eternal life and god-like powers.” Not that God didn’t know what the angels would do, or what each one of us will do, but we have to see what we would have done and what the consequences were.
It’s like the trinity, it doesn’t have to make sense ’cause it’s a basic philosophical paradox.
March 19th, 2008 at 11:45 am
oh, and btw - you must know there were two trees - the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. They were only prohibited from eating of the one tree (Knowledge) and NOT from the Tree of Life, until they had disobeyed and were banished. Hence, they had an open invitation to God-hood, but chose to believe the serpent and choose for themselves what is good and evil. It wasn’t a trap - it was a choice: who ya gonna listen to?
March 19th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Hey since there are only 30 days left til all the fun on this blog is over one way or another i figured we could play a little came called “chart the thunders” everyone should list some thunders that have started since the 18th…keep in mind the first trumpet hasn’t blown yet so expect nothing too crazy til april then we’ll know if RW is false or not. (keep in mind if RW is making this up these aren’t thunders but just shitty happenings in the world that society isn’t able to prevent yet (maybe never).
March18- Celebrity deaths: Vicki Van Meter (26) youngest female transatlantic flight, apparent suicide-Arthur C. Clark (90) sci-fi writer who inspired 2001 space odessy-Anthony Minghella (55) Oscar for English patient
Natural disasters: 9 deaths and other injuries being blamed on central US flooding
Random Violence: (on-going) “Tibetan exile groups maintain at least 80 people were killed by Chinese security forces” (cnn.com)
March19- Celebrity deaths: Ivan Dixon (76) Hogan’s Heroes, Kidney failure
Day in progress….
(btw i wanted to add the Atlanta tornadoes and the bear sterns collapse but i figured it’d be easier to just track from the 18th on, cuz if these thunders are supposed to be increasing we should be able to notice the trend within these 30 days)
March 19th, 2008 at 11:52 am
I am really sad that none of our RW church members are on here anymore. Does anyone know what happened to them. I know all about the big sermon blow up, but I remember one of the ladies saying that she’d stay with us till the bitter end. If you are out there, ladies, please say hi! If you aren’t allowed to say hi, are you SURE you are not in a cult??? Thinking of you… Praying your eyes will be opened.
March 19th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Vicki Van Meter is a relative of mine through marriage (Swear to God). Would you really consider her a celebrity?
March 19th, 2008 at 11:56 am
waytencee watch - that would very quickly escalate into a CNN news ticker - the precise problem with the thunders is that almost any newsworthy event counts in some way or another, which makes them pretty meaningless unless something HUGE (and/or explicitly predicted) happens.
I’ve been trying to make this point for several pages now.
March 19th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Well even if RW is telling the truth any thunder watch would seem like a news ticker…but its worth lookin at…i mean if i we go through march and april with 5 celebrity deaths, we’ll know thats’ not an ususual number and it’d be evidence against RW, same things if there’s a couple of storms but nothing serious…but if we get quite a few floods/tornadoes that kill off a few more people we might be able to say “hey that’s odd…” I don’t mind doing it cuz im checking the news and making notes anyway… And miss b i dont know how famous she was but if they’re reporting her death on news sites she’s a celeb…if i dropped dead tmmr it’d wouldnt make headlines…
March 19th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
if i dropped dead tmmr it’d wouldnt make headlines…
Me either : (
March 19th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
“i mean if i we go through march and april with 5 celebrity deaths, we’ll know thats’ not an ususual number and it’d be evidence against RW”
by this logic you should be satisfied with the absence of a spike in celebrity deaths since the book’s original publication ~2006.
Or the absence of deaths within the CoG ministry thus far.
What baseline for comparison are you using?
No offense, I just don’t think you’re going to prove much either way, but by all means proceed. It could prove interesting.
March 19th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
You said: “Wow! An increase of approximately 120%. Most excellent indeed.”
YES! More people will be discussing how the Shock & Horror isn’t happening!
March 19th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Renton,
Yes, heaven forbid that true beliefs about God should ever, you know, make rational sense. Where’s the fun in that?
March 19th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Watencee Watch,
Let’s not. You will always find bad news and you hardly even have to go looking for it because, “If it bleeds, it leads.” Wow, celebrity deaths in our time? Who’da thought?
March 19th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Banncam,
I think that’s a good thing.
March 19th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
I think it is going to have to be BIG, REALLY BIG to bring on shock & horror!
I mean, we’re used to seeing ONE or TWO huge hurricanes in one year. What about huge brush fires….we’ve had them. We’ve had huge land slides…We’ve had death and destruction in TN & GA with tornadoes.
When GOD does want HIS POWER and GLORY desplayed….there will be NO question….
If RW was annointed by God to make these prophecies, they will happen with POWER and MIGHT….not “trickle in here or there”….
It seems to me RW will be saying here soon, “Let’s count the train wreck that happened over there” and “let’s count that storm that uprooted a tree in KS” and “let’s count that family that got murdered in Chicago”….
GOODNESS!
I guess I gotta see LA fall into the ocean or an entire CITY destroyed.
I hate to say this…but now… if 2 planes hit buildings in NYC and took them down…I wouldn’t give RW credit…. That’s a big event…but NOT SHOCK & Horror.
March 19th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Ironwolf,
Less people discussing how the Shock & Horror isn’t happening is a VERY GOOD thing….
Later,
Marie
March 19th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
RW’s message I listened to today said, (not direct quote)
Jesus came but God was not calling all mankind to himself at that time. He was only calling a few. God only revealed himself to a few people. He was reserving his truth to be revealed now through his end time prophet.
What about the scripture: Matt 11:28-30
So RW is trying to say, Jesus came and the desciples were killed and the church was tormented for only a few?!?
You have to have MORE FAith in RW than in Christ to believe this guy
March 19th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Ironwolf -
to get off on a bit of a tangent, I think that the Garden of Eden is an attempt to resolve the Problem of Free Will vs Determinism and the Problem of Evil - and for being parables of at least a couple thousand years old, they do not a bad job.
I’ve never really read a satisfactory resolution of either (except ones that dissolve them as artificial constructs).
The problem is when people take them as literal history.
March 19th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
That scripture says “Come ALL who…”
“ALL” doesn’t really mean “ALL” if you believe RW….
“ALL” means “FEW” if you believe RW
March 19th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
About this Adam & Eve thing…
It is so easy to look back at that and think about what could have happened or why this or that happened.
Truth is…I’ve believed a lie for a big part of my life. It is easy to do. Why? Who knows?
Even though I/we followed a false prophet and made life decisions based in untruth….I DON’T regret one part of it.
I am in a REALLY good place spiritually so how can I have regrets? It all led me to s ONE on ONE relationship with Christ where I need not follow any man.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Wonder if Claire is having second thoughts yet about joining Ron’s church and if she is having any doubts yet? Has anyone contacted her? I hope that Ron didn’t scare the tar out of her by threatening to ex-communicate her from the church and probably forbid her to associate with us.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
How do we get the 7th seal opening on the 18th? One of Ron’s sermon’s on Feb 9th says ‘45 days until the 7th seal’. That would put it on the 25th.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Renton,
Why stop at the Garden of Eden? All religions are attempts at resolving perennial philosophical issues such as Free Will, Morality, Mortality, Suffering, and so on. Personally, I think the Garden of Eden story does a terrible job at addressing these issues. IMHO, the best answer to Free Will is: it doesn’t matter whether Free Will is an illusion or not. The best answer to the Problem of Evil (i.e., Suffering) is: God doesn’t exist and life involves suffering, so deal with it. The best answer to Mortality is: make the most of this life. The best answer to Morality is: the Golden Rule (which evolved along with us, and is not of Christian origin.)
OK, so enough about that here. If you want to debate these points, e-mail me.
ironwolf@dangerousgames.com
March 19th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Yes, Feb 9th the message was called 45 days till 7th seal…
But in that message he said, “38 days really…”
Whats up with that?
March 19th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Also in the FEb 9th sermon RW said the previous sabbath was 75 days till the beginning of the 3-1/2 year trib… then later mentions 68 days….then the sermon title was ‘the last 45 days’ or something of that sort….geeeeee this guy throws around numbers like I throw peanut shells at a baseball game. who can keep up with all the numbers thrown around? Maybe somebody could email the dude and ask for a flow chart…
March 19th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Some one mentioned the ’shock and awe’ in Ron’s book when the 7th seal is opened. I missed that little tid bit.
All along I had been thinking this (7th seal) was going to be the 25th. What I was speculating would happen would be a ‘false flag attack’.
http://www.spiritone.com/~pazuu/pow-mia/Ghost_Troop_Captain_Eric_H_May.htm
If nothing does happen I will feel a whole lot better about April, and then perhaps think about cutting back on the beer. Cant party too hard if the end ain’t coming.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Yes! Shock & Awe….
He said that…
He does throw the numbers around.
Did I mention Charles Manson interview…?…. Charles spoke convincingly in circles too….
March 19th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Hello All,
This is by far the best RW debate I could find and I have been following right along with you all since January. So I post now for the first time.
I also find myself agreeing with the possibility that Jonathan raised in a subtle kind of way that Ron W. may be false in a biblical sense, but somehow “involved” with something designed by man if some of these things come to pass.
I am guessing that this is what people are indeed going to think if something does happen and I imagine that RW may find himself in a dark room somewhere having to explain to “Jack Bauer” how he knew it was going to happen.
This is why I am going to need to see an “act of God” before I can truly start to jump on the bandwagon here.
Which brings me to what I wanted to bring up.
About a month ago I was browsing the “Edge AM” site where I heard RW’s last radio interview in December listening to some of the other interviews with government insiders, conspiracy theorists and prophets. There was one guest who seemed to stand out and I am surprised that that no-one has brought her up in this forum.
“Katti Dauer” makes a claim that although she has never met Ron W. or that he has no idea who she is … she is in fact the second witness. This interview was on 2/2/08 and just before I had heard Ron hint in one of his sermons that the other witness is going to be a woman. I didn’t make much of it because she has no real “credentials”, doesn’t belong to a church, is only in her early 20’s… and says this revelation just came to her one day. Besides, she states in her interview that final day of Christ’s return is a day later than what Ron has said.
But alas the burden of proof is on her as well as on Ron. And now a month and a half later I revisit what she says. Why?
Well… for starters … she states late in the interview that the first “catastrophe” so to speak would be a great flood that stretches from the “great lakes to the gulf of Mexico” (her words) and that in fact much if not all of the eastern U.S. will be under water at some point. She also claims that this event was her “choice” so to speak and this is in fact what she asked for.
Yeah ? Right ? This was on 2/2/08 … Yeah right.
Now … today is March 19th and at this hour …. the Midwestern U.S. from Ohio down to Texas is in fact flooding. Yes … this happens every spring to some extent … but then I remembered that her prediction for the final day came one day later than what Ronald said … and today is in fact the day after the day that people were “expecting” something to start.
I guess it remains to be seen if the weather subsides now … or if it gets worse? I guess it would be too easy if the sky starts acting in complete contradiction to what traditional meteorology would expect it to do. You know ? clouds moving against the wind and other miraculous things.
I’m guessing it won’t be that easy to tell. But for now it seems that this girl who virtually no-one knows of … who has a my space account set to “private”, who doesn’t come up on any Google search … who has no official connection to “God’s Church” …. may be 1 and 0.
Check her out. Listen to the 2 hour long interview. I’m guessing that this girl is dismissed outright by any “serious” believer in what Ron W. is putting out.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
One of the reasons that I think Ron is right is the way things are going in other ‘conspiracy’ streams. There is too much to go into, but for me it all dovetailed nicely into Ron being a self proclaimed ‘prophet’.
I have sat for hours in front of the computer exposing myself to all kinds of information. What I have come to believe is that the internet is the last domain the satanic ‘illumini’ (those in power who are really pulling the strings) -do not control.
There is so much that is messed up out there, that when Ron says ‘God is getting ready to put an end to all this’ I tend to want to believe it.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Not to beat a dead horse but here, again, is the exact quote from Weinland’s book with regards to yesterday (Tuesday March 18th):
“I know the exact day the Sixth Seal was opened, and the world will be shocked and in horror on the day that the Seventh Seal is opened.” [pp. 23, 2008: God’s Final Witness]
Bzzzzzzzzt! So sorry Rotten Ronnie but thaaaaaaank you for playing!
March 19th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Hey Todaysfate,
Trust ME…RW WILL not believe the other witness is ANYONE outside what he considers the true church.
If God spoke it in his ear, he would never accept any person having ANY TRUTH or CONNECTION to God that doesn’t have roots in HWA teaching.
I guess we’ll all find out for sure, but if I had a million dollars…I’d bet EVERY penny that RW’s 2nd witness is someone close to him.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Hey WW,
Thank you for giving us that exact quote…and book page.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Oh and by the way: The fifth thunder (of “Ron’s own choosing”) is for leaders of the various Church of God splinters to die (including Rod Meredith—check the bottom of the Interview Comments page on ronaldweinland.com if they haven’t removed it yet). Not celebrities.
Although I’m sure the old ministers of misery wish they were celebrities the same way Armstrong did……………
March 19th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Banncam—yeah here’s hoping people actually run into proselytizing followers of Weinland they can use it on eh?
March 19th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Went back in the blog and checked on the date of the opening of the 7th seal.
Claire UK Says:
February 28th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Peter,
We were both a bit wrong on the dates. A member of the church has just emailed me with the exact ones.
1335 days from the day Christ will return is 2nd Feb 08. The sealing of the 144,000 was completed on that date.
1290 days = 18th March 2008. That will be the opening of the seventh seal (and also the time when Satan no longer has the same power to deceive those in the Scattered groups. Some from those groups will begin to be awakened spiritually as a result). While there is silence in heaven for half an hour, there will not be silence on earth and the thunders will all ’sound’ powerfully during that time.
1260 days = 17th April 2008, the day the first trumpet of the seventh seal will ’sound’. It will also be the time of the beginning of what is called “The Great Tribulation”
Hope THIS clears things up
So, March 18th is definetly the opening of the 7th Seal not March 25th.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Kurt, just be careful. Just because there is so much messed up doesn’t necessarily mean that God is getting ready to put an end to all of it - or end it in the manner described by RW.
Your comment ‘I tend to want to believe it’ sends shivers up my spin as that is why my folks got sucked into the group we were in - predicting end times and horrors beginning in 1975. My parents could not make sense of sitting in bomb shelters during school hours preparing for a nuke attacks, the cold war, civil rights unrest, the Vietnam war and civil disobedience from the war, the sexual revolution and every other society upheaval in the 60’s.
They wanted to believe their end time guru too…then they would be insulated from the horrors to come and more important - blindly sit through sermon after sermon of RW type teachings and think they were smarter and better than everybody else because they knew the truth and what was going to happen. Poor pitiful ones who didn’t - or so they thought.
Problem was, didn’t happen…then it was all….well we didin’t really set dates…then it was….we had the facts right….wrong timing….yada yada yada.
These self-proclaimed prophets make claims that won’t happen. If God was to do the things that RW says, we would all know it and there would be no question. The reason they make these claims is because they are so very important in their own eyes and want everybody around them to think the same. By the way, get out the checkbook if you want to join their group. Free books is only the hook to get you in the boat…then look out!
Many, many, many prophets of doom have come and gone since the ascension of Jesus.
Later,
Marie
March 19th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
page 109 in RW book it says politicl leaders and well known entertainers and sports figures will also die in the 2nd phase of death.
Unless he’s changed his mind on that…
March 19th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
yes! for sure for sure WW.
I will use that reference.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Some more quotes to ponder:
“Before the Seventh (and final) Seal is opened, the Seven Thunders will become so pronounced that the validity of everything written about them in the previous chapter should roar loudly in the ears of anyone who is willing to admit the truth.” [pp.115, 2008: God’s Final Witness]
Continuing on, the top of the next page:
“Also, by this moment in time, there will be a strong, rapidly growing recognition within the United States that I am who I say I am—one of God’s end-time witnesses and His prophet.” [pp. 116, 2008: God’s Final Witness]
Pretty damning for Weinland, if you ask me. No matter how much wiggle room he thinks he has.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Todaysfate, If this woman is the 2nd witness her date would line up exactly with Ron’s.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
I don’t think he is very well known…yet.
I don’t see a strong and rapidly growing recognition…
Isn’t it funny the way he said, “BY THIS MOMENT IN TIME” …referring to the opening of the 7th seal…
March 19th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
This woman could be the real witness….and RW could be the imposter…
HE will think she is an imposter for sure….
He’s a control freak and the 2nd witness will be of his choosing…just like the thunders…
March 19th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Ah, I missed that “second phase” of the fifth thunder quote Banncam. Interesting quote two paragraphs above however:
“Then, those in the largest scattered group, who think they have escaped, will be lifted up to believe that God is with them because they are so filled with pride. But, when that happens, the deaths of many in the United Church of God will begin.” [pp. 108, 2008: God’s Final Witness]
Many deaths in United? Not yet. Here is the quote you referred to, two paragraphs down, Banncam:
“(2) The second phase of death will be upon notable people in
the world. It will begin small and increase in intensity as all the
thunders do. These notable people will include political leaders
and well known entertainment and sports figures. It will include
other religious figures within the various religions of the world.” [pp. 108, 2008: God’s Final Witness]
You mean “as all the thunders haven’t, don’t you Ronnie boy?
If anyone sat down with one of Weinland’s believers and went through these quotes with them one by one, they would have to willfully choose not to think, in order to not accept what was being presented to them.
Unfortunately, that is probably exactly what they are going to do.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Miss B;
Sorry, that clears nothing up because it came from someone other than Ron, who seems to have put an end to ‘others’ representing that church.
Marie;
Why would my desire to have God straighten this $#%& up world send shivers down your spine? Things are bad and getting exponentially worse. Do you really think we are doing that great of a job running this earth?
By the way, you don’t have to worry about me ‘joining their group’ until there is no doubt he is a real ‘prophet’.
What is up with his tithing anyway? My wife is in a Church and she tithes. What is different with this?
March 19th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Don’t you so hope that Ron is reading this? We would all be dying as result of one of the thunders that he is choosing.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Marie said:
My parents could not make sense of sitting in bomb shelters during school hours preparing for a nuke attacks, the cold war, civil rights unrest, the Vietnam war and civil disobedience from the war, the sexual revolution and every other society upheaval in the 60’s.
This is WHAT drives people to seek answers. Things in their lives or in the world are scary and unstable, people want ANSWERS!
Truth is, mankind is at enmity with God as scripture says. But each individual person has the ability to form a relationship with God and on an individual basis, it really doesn’t matter what goes on in the world, our eternal lives are secure.
This whole “individual” perspective is in direct opposit approach to RW’s (and splinters) way of religion. There is NO individuals in that form of belief.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Kurt, you are right but I just figured I’d go back and recheck some of the dates. Also Claire said something about this being a leap year. Would that have anything to do with the date’s being different?
March 19th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Hey … i’m just saying …. all of the cynics yesterday expecting Ron to be a complete failure because nothing happened on day one.
Well … today is day two and some girl said a month ago it was going to start flooding in the Midwest. And today it did ( in some places).
That doesn’t mean that its going to keep flooding from today forward, progressively getting worse until it becomes something of biblical proportions.
But you must admit that it could …. right?
As far as the girl … She is behind Ron 100 percent… believes in the 1260, 1290, 3 and 1/2 years etc. She just slipped in her interview and quoted the 30th of Sept 2011 instead of the 29th as the final day. That would mean that assuming the timing is correct … what we thought was going to happen yesterday is really happening today. Of course that depends on the time zone you are in anyway. Right?
March 19th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
With the recent concern of what could happen when nothing does happen, or something similar happens. I was thinking about the potential “frame of mind” RW has, and has created with the members of the COG-PKG.
I’m not a psychologist, psychiatrist or sociologist, but just thinking out loud about what some of the COG-PKG members and RW might be thinking or experiencing in the next few weeks.
RW explains (on page 110/111 2008GFW) that God is speaking to him, and he (RW) is speaking for God. This is also a section in the book where RW declares that the proof of his predictions is, “the answer that I am who I say I am will be given by the events described in both books coming true exactly as I have described. This will be the proof that I am God’s end-time witness and spokesman”. If they (COG-PKG) still believe RW is who he claims to be at this point in time, they have certainly held RW to a lower bar or are just so invested that they simply see what they want to see. RW also explains (on page 57), ”God has sent His prophets to different people over and over again, and each time, God has told His prophets to make it very clear that what they (the prophets) were telling them (the people) was absolutely from God and to them”. If you combine this “mind set” with the 7th Thunder, accelerated revelation of God to man (At first, this thunder is for God’s own church COG-PKG), and the 6th Thunder, growing revelation of God’s end-time witness is RW, the stage is set for some potential problems. RW also says, (pg 113) “God’s revelation to mankind will continue to accelerate as we draw closer to the end of man’s ruler ship and the coming of Jesus Christ to rule over the earth”. Combine the net effect of these thunders for those that believe RW. You not only believe what RW says and, that what he says is from God. But that you will have a greater knowledge of God, or in other words God will be speaking directly to you. I would also argue that this becomes more of a self fulfilling prophecy for the COG-PKG members. If they truly believe “correctly”, then their belief is going to strengthen in RW, and their ability to “know” what God is revealing must increase too. In effect God will be speaking directly to the members.
This sets-up a scenario were RW and the members of COG-PKG believe that their thoughts (revelations) are coming directly from God. That all of them would be justified in anything they do, because they believe the end-time is unfolding, or at the very least anything RW declares is actually a declaration/revelation from God. Combine this with the idea that they are in the midst of the end-time, or the end of man’s rule (man’s law). RW has in effect created a mind-set that could very possibly release them from otherwise reasonable behavior.
For the sake of argument, what happens if the US does suffer a terrorist attack? We are arguably long overdue. You’re a COG-PKG member, a bomb of some kind goes off in NY or DC, and you think the end of the world is beginning. In their mind they now believe that everything RW wrote is absolutely true (if they ever had a little doubt in the back of the head). They believe everything RW tells them is coming directly from God, and/or would they also believe their own thoughts are now coming directly from God too (7th Thunder)?
RW says, (pg 85) “By contrast, the government of man are filled with lies, corruption, special interests, excessive taxation, bloated bureaucracy, oppression, red tape, favoritism, injustice, bickering, fighting, war mongering, selfishness, egotism, pride, thirst for money and power, and on it goes!” (amazing…..sorry I had to throw that in ). This is just one example of how RW expresses his disdain for the “age of man”. Will RW also have little or no regard for the laws of the land?
RW has opined on the current state of the world as “sick”, when he describes particular world conditions, or individual actions he doesn’t like. RW thinks he is speaking with and for God. He believes we are in the midst of the end of the world as we know it. I would argue delusional. So what happens when things don’t pan out like he thinks they will? How long will he hold on to the idea he is right. What happens if and when he is confronted with an angry member(s). How angry or despondent will members or RW become?
It is evident that there is a lot of concern by people here who have family in the COG-PKG. I think for some us viewing from a safe distance, and having not invested our entire life and existence in the belief that the end of the world is about to take place, that these people will just pick-up their Bibles and pick up their lives. I’m not sure that is how things will or could play out. I know it has been said that a suicidal “Jones Town” is highly unlikely, but RW thinks he is talking to God, and the members think he is too. How many times have we all heard about or seen someone we know or think we know go completely off the deep end. Shake our heads and think what could they possibly been thinking. Our reality can be a fragile thing. It could be that the only thing RW does in the event of a nonevent is recalibrate is calendar, but he is not alone. RW has invested everything he has into this. I find it difficult to believe he just walks away from this. Mix in one overzealous member or two that has all ready prepared for the end and the real headlines could be generated from something other than cities being destroyed.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
You said: “What is up with his tithing anyway? My wife is in a Church and she tithes. What is different with this?”
Typically the difference is this….RW’s church (and the splinters) REQUIRE tithing attached to salvation. If you don’t give 10%, you are not going to be with us in God’s Kingdom.
In the OLD days (but it could still be happening) the ministers looked at your tithing and your “income” and see if you are really paying 10%. If not, you don’t get to “serve” in the church and you are …not really with them…
In the church I attend, they give the sermon’s on “give and it shall be given unto you”….and “being cheerful givers” messages…but NEVER is it attached to being saved. NEVER is it attached to church service….etc.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Miss B,
The immortal words of George Carlin come to mind:
Video of the entire excellent monologue here.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
You said: Also Claire said something about this being a leap year. Would that have anything to do with the date’s being different?
WHAT??? I hadn’t heard the “leap year” comment…
God is NOT bound by a calendar!
Look at Joshua 10:12-13
Again I say…GOD will make it happen….HE WILL SHOW HIS GLORY…
IF RW is REALLY the prophet….GOD will do it…NOT require his annointed to change dates or details…
March 19th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
As far as Ron W. is concerned…. I wouldn’t hold the man to such a high standard … He is only a man. And no man is under Gods direct control. He would not be a man without his free will…. the ability to be tempted … etc.
So pretend that Ron is exactly who he feels that he is. It doesn’t mean that he will be 100% right in everything he says. He may be in fact wrong about a great many things. God doesn’t have to explain to Ron, us or anyone else which part of the message is real … and which is not.
Even if you believe in Ron …. you simply MUST also believe and assume that he is also adding is own slant to everything he is given.
Its silly to think that he has all of the answers… and that this is not a learning experience for him as well.
He could be wrong about EVERYTHING he has said exept that simple fact that it IS happening now. He may come to find out that what he is meant to do also has nothing at all to do with “his church”.
You never know.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
You said:
Even if you believe in Ron …. you simply MUST also believe and assume that he is also adding is own slant to everything he is given.
Its silly to think that he has all of the answers… and that this is not a learning experience for him as well.
When a person is annointed by God (in the examples in the bible)… The prophet gives a pronouncement and GOD makes sure it happens exactly as his annointed stated…
This shows God’s Glory through the “pronouncements/judgements” of his annointed.
If someone claimed to be God’s annointed and makes pronoucements/judgements and God did not back them up…nobody would ever care about what they ever said again and they wouldn’t believe in their God either.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Banncam, I agree with you totally. This was just something that Claire said when she was being questioned about the different dates.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
NBC news just covered a huge storm system that covered 25 states in our union and has killed 12 people from flooding….
I’m still not joining RW church…
I don’t have to. I’ve already given my life to the Lord. My salvation is in Him.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Kurt,
Doesn’t give me shivers that the ‘mess’ would end. Praise God - yeah! We are discussing the ‘prophet’ and the message of this so-called ‘prophet’. That gives me shivers!
I would argue it’s been a mess from the beginning of the fall of man in the garden. Getting worse? In your view….I’m sure the folks that lived through every other era in human existence that had to live in war, famine, squalor, disease, death and every myriad of human ills would consider their world a ‘mess’ too.
To clarify, it gives me shivers to think of what this man is doing in the lives of my family! And…though I don’t know you personally….I would not like to see you sucked in either just because you like the fact that it gives and answer to you that time is short and all this crap will be over. I understand your thinking on it and am not criticizing your motive. I’m glad you’re taking a wait and see attitude.
But, the fact that people are discussing the flooding in the midwest as a possible sign is borderline nuts. It always floods in the midwest in the spring. Always. Sometimes worse, sometimes less. We had a really bad flood in 93 & 95 that was just horrible. It’s sunshine now and last time I check my desktop weather with the national satellite we are dry and the flood waters are receding.
Been through the piecing together of the news as evidence of prophetic events coming to a catacylsmic end!!! RW is claiming HIGH drama - everybody knowing who RW is and that RW is calling down some events as his perogative because he is somebody special. He’s special all right.
As far as tithing….let’s see….I think my family tithes 10% (on the net of couse they get a break there) and 10% to attend their annual feast in the fall (of course they get to spend on themselves) but they probably have to tithe 10% of the 10% to give to the church to pay for the facility. Plus they will have to pay 10% every third year to give to the poor in the church…no financial accounting of course for any of the distribution of such. I think they also have to pay to be baptiized and have records to prove it…..it’s a money cow….
Later
Marie
March 19th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
todaysfate, where did you see this girls katti dauer’s myspace, I can’t find it. Is the spelling of her name correct?
March 19th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Marie said:As far as tithing….let’s see….I think my family tithes 10% (on the net of couse they get a break there) and 10% to attend their annual feast in the fall (of course they get to spend on themselves) but they probably have to tithe 10% of the 10% to give to the church to pay for the facility. Plus they will have to pay 10% every third year to give to the poor in the church…no financial accounting of course for any of the distribution of such. I think they also have to pay to be baptiized and have records to prove it…..it’s a money cow….
****
Yes this is right. It is just ill advised to give any organization so much of your money… so much control over your lives and individualism. It is not required by scripture, but that is the nature of cults.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Hey Banncam;
Ron does not use the word ’salvation’. The way he puts it, as far as I can figure, is you either do what God commands or you die and get resurected in 1000 years, with another shot at joining Gods family. Thats cool with me. At least you wont spend eternaty in hell (which is what most churches use to contol those monies, and its all about the monies with them as far as I’m concerned).
My intention is to spend my monies on beer until Ron the prophet starts stricking you heathens down. Then I’m gonna get right with the Lord real quick and divert those tithes to the proper place.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Oh I forgot - they aren’t scheduing a fall meeting - so that 10% is probably done….and maybe they don’t have to do the 10% every third year for the poor because we will all be poor soon and there won’t be enough to go around.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
look at this website…
http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex_baba/engels/articles/whatisacult.html
Look at the “list”
It’s pretty much a check list on RW (and splinter groups) organization
March 19th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Okay Kurt, we all have a right to choose.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Kurt - you better check your thinking about getting right with the Lord real quick
I think RW talked about that some in one of his sermons. It might come to0 quick for ya! 
Don’t forget the dollar is worth nuttin’ honey by the end of April…
March 19th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
I like beer…mostly with pizza
March 19th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Hey Robert…
YES to your last comment….
The escalation of what he believes, “his thunders” are very important to him in proving he is who he claims to be…
And after listening to him for HOURS as many of you have, RW is NOT a humble man. He is VERY wrapped up on “proving himself”….
I hope I am wrong…but I don’t see him simply saying “oops…sorry, I was wrong…”
I’m very concerned about my family in his group
March 19th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Yup, 3/18 has come and gone and we are still blogging away…Jim Haggarty…I still stick to the US economy’s downward spiral…I’ve been in banking for many years and am aware of many contributing factors merging together(the perfect storm)…but that’s off the topic at hand.
I wonder if RW is consulting his wife(I mean the other end time witness) on what the heck is going on(or NOT going on)…there were some disasterous flooding going on yesterday and my prayers go out to those who were effected, but overall, it was a “normal” day in the neighborhood…It also amazes me that there seems to be as many interpretations on what RW wrote and has said as there are of the scriptures in the bible….don’t get me wrong…this is good stuff!!!
March 19th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
You know what is lacking here? A sense of humor. Ron seems to have a sense of humor. Do not think I am a Ron freak because I mention his name so much, I do that to keep the ironwolf ‘keep on the topic’ freak off this freaks back.
So anyways, what was I saying, oh yea beer! No, it was humor. You guys are stiffs! Lighten up like Ron does! Of course he found that the key to raking in the cash is to sell eternal death and not eternal damnation! No wonder he’s laughing to the bank!
Hey whats with this typing in the two words every time I make a post? Is this a sobriety test?
March 19th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Miss B ….
She gave the URL during the interview …. her name doesn’t produce anything in a search.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Forgive any insensitivity that I may be expressing to those of you with family in this church. I really know nothing of this church (other than what they put online) and if it is some kind of death cult, well then I am way out of line and do not intend to make light of it.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Todaysfate, Do you have the link for the interview?
March 19th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
It’s okay Kurt. It’s hard for me to have much of a sense of humor right now. I do need to lighten up…
March 19th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
To hear Katti Dauer
Go here:
http://www.theedgeam.com/guests/pastguest21.htm
scroll down a little you’ll see it…
they have her email listed as:
kat2dauer@hotmail.com
March 19th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Banncam, Have you listened to this girls interview? I’m gonna see if she will add me as a friend on her myspace to see if I can get a peak
March 19th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I haven’t listened
I might though.
Did you find her myspace?
March 19th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Banncam and Miss B …
I agree with you guys ….
Except that a running theme here seems to be that Ron W. hasn’t been making any “pronouncements” by date and time as of yet.
In fact … he has said early on in some of the interviews … that there is this “six months” window of uncertainty. Why is this? To give himself some breathing room … or to keep enough people tithing for a longer amount of time in order to raise the money needed to pay for a TV ad?
OR … could it be that he truly can’t know the date and hour just as the bible says. Even though he says he doesn’t agree with this … it appears as if it may indeed be the case whether he likes it ot not. Does it mean he isn’t the prophet? No.
OR … maybe Ron actually has a date and time in mind … exactly to the minute … but because he is HUMAN … actually harbors some doubt himself…. and simply chooses to not risk losing his church … his livelihood, the roof over his head … etc. Maybe his decisions are influenced by his wife and her unwillingness to “bet the farm”. That would be the human Ron getting in the way of the prophet Ron. Does he mean he isn’t the prophet? No.
Along comes this Katti Dauer … says that that Ohio and below is going to start flooding…. basically because “she said so” …. and it actually does flood to some extent today. In her audio … she “proclaims” this. Doesn’t give a date … but it seems to happen on the day … or the morning after the day that Ron says the seventh seal opens.
I’m willing to bet that people living in those areas are shocked, and saddened right now.
Hmmmmmmmm ….
Does that mean that she isn’t a prophet? No? Does Ron hoping or assuming that his second witness is someone he knows mean that’s who it will indeed be? No.
My point…. the more people pick him apart … the more he is going to appear to be confused and unwilling to put himself on the chopping block. The more he will doubt himself.
Katti on the other hand … doesn’t have anything to lose by making crazy claims. She has no forum … and she has no financial backing.
Me? I’m guessing that 2/3 of the world will be dead before the last 3rd even considers any “prophet” to be true.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Banncam, I found her myspace page. It is set to private which means she will have to add me as friend for me to view her page. Her headline for the page is “‘Kingdom of God’ coming Fall of 2011!!!!! WAHOOO!!!!!!!!”
Female
21 years old
CALIFORNIA
United States
Last Login: 3/19/2008
March 19th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
You’ll see that where Ron is impressive and smooth in his radio interviews … Katti comes across as someone who is clueless and unsure of anything but what she says she knows. Her story is quite far fetched and doesn’t really compare with what Ron says in his highly educated way.
But flood waters is flood waters. So its something to keep in the back of the mind.
Thats all i’m saying.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
You said:
I’m guessing that 2/3 of the world will be dead before the last 3rd even considers any “prophet” to be true.
I know what you mean…but I don’t believe the prophet will be trying to “get people to believe them”…
A true prophet will be doing what Jonah did. He/she will proclaim the Power and Mercy of God, pointing humanity toward repentance.
People who have already repented and are already following God KNOW the end of the story…
And it WON’T be totally up to the prophet, OTHER Christians will also profess repentance and Christ to those around them…
March 19th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Todaysfate - just to let you know….I live in the midwest where the flooding has occurred. Nobody is shocked by it….we had much weather forecasting ahead of time saying we were going to get heavy rainfall. It happens every spring….normal occurrence. It does, however, sadden us when people lose their lives or their homes due to flooding. Shocking…no…sad….yes…..I could predict extreme flooding in midwest people losing lives and homes and be dead on center……every year….somewhere…….
March 19th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
What I think will happen….
There will be floods, stock market “stuff” and death and who knows what else…till Christ comes.
There will be a prophet…and when he prophecies …it will be something we’ve NEVER seen before to Show the Power and Glory of God. Anything that resembles anything we’ve seen will not get the attention of man
March 19th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Problem is… people like RW have s