Welcome back my friends, to the show that never ends! Or perhaps it will start ending in 18 days, like Ron Weinland says. Or perhaps it won’t be until July. Or perhaps…
Part 1 Basic info and links.
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5 FAQ
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10
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on Sunday, March 30th, 2008 at 11:05 am and is filed under False Prophets.
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March 30th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Weinland Watch quoting Ron Weinland:
I want more from Weinland than this. In fact, if he admits he’s a false prophet I demand several things:
1. A public apology.
2. A detailed explanation of how he decieved himself.
3. Reparations to those harmed by his teachings.
4. An ongoing commitment to exposing other such false prophets.
I think everyone here should join me in demanding these things, and insisting that his soon-to-be-jilted followers demand them too.
March 30th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Todaysfate,
The only person I am putting on trial here is Weinland. For me, the “end times” concept has already been put to the lie by these simple words: “Behold, I come quickly.”
God didn’t tell me to go build no boat. Go build your own damn boat.
Yeah, why doesn’t someone do something about those Dark Ages, or that Bubonic Plague, or that Polio, or that Smallpox, or that gangrene, or that scurvy, or that cleft palate, or… wait, nevermind.
March 30th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Peter,
Tell you what. For anyone who believes that the collapse of the dollar is imminent: It’s not too late to send all your money to my Paypal account, which is the same as my e-mail: ironwolf@dangerousgames.com. After that, you will be truly unburdened when that money becomes worthless— you won’t even need to take the effort to toss it into the streets.
Glad to help you guys out.
Good going, Peter! I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts on them.
March 30th, 2008 at 11:10 am
RC,
Sorry, no. Unfortunately, Wordpress wasn’t designed with mega-threads like this in mind, so I’m coping with it the best I can. On the plus side, the fact that people have to re-subscribe to each new thread as I open it assures that no-one is getting spam from the Weinland Channel indefinitely.
March 30th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Michael,
You just refuted your own “time doesn’t exist” idea when you used the concept of rotation, which is: “change in angle over…” what? Anyone? Bueller?
Yes, time.
This is called the “fallacy of the stolen concept.” It’s like saying “There are two reasons why I don’t believe in numbers: number one…” or “I’ll show you that time doesn’t exist— this will only take a minute. Now…”
If you want to debate this, then do so in e-mail.
March 30th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Kurt,
Look it up: Troll.
And yes, Kurt, in your desire to play “devils advocate” you have at times confused a number of people here (myself included) about where you actually stand. I recommend you adopt a single, consistent persona and stick to it (unless your position really does change, of course.) Things are confusing enough here without a bunch of split personalities running around.
March 30th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Repeating it here so it doesn’t get lost in the burger-flipping:
Observant “critics” will also note that Weinland has already set a precedent for cutting and running when he can no longer stand the heat: He did it to at least one Worldwide Church of God congregation, and he followed it up some time later with a repeat performance at his United Church of God congregation.
In both cases, members of each congregation did not know Weinland was leaving, until it was a done deal. Even money says that this is exactly what he plans to do on the 17th April, to the CoG-PKG. If he doesn’t play either of the “Waaaaait until Julyyyyyyy!” or “The bride of christ wasn’t ready.” cards.
March 30th, 2008 at 11:14 am
I would demand those things as to what Ironwolf has said. Perhaps he should go back on all of his radio interviews he has done and say it.
March 30th, 2008 at 11:15 am
“It’s not too late to send all your money to my Paypal account,”
LOL - Thats classic !!!
What if you actually start to recieve money?
I wouldn’t put it past some of these poeple.
You may have just started a “following”.
March 30th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Ironwolf ….
So Ron W. is false simply by virtue of what he claims to be … which you know to not exist to begin with no matter who it is.
Right?
March 30th, 2008 at 11:23 am
2. A detailed explanation of how he decieved himself.
… thats an easy one …. “Satan”.
3. Reparations to those harmed by his teachings.
…. here’s hoping … I was planning on taking my April 11 pay check and invensting in a back yard bomb shelter instead of paying the mortgage. Ron beter be ready to pay me back. Only kidding.
March 30th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Ironwolf;
Yea, I can see how that devils advocate thing was being a ‘Troll’, and I think me insinuating other bloggers of being spies from the COG-PKG is is also ‘Troll’ like behavior as well.
I am new to blogging. No offense meant.
As far as the split personalty, check this out:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5993344784355496325
March 30th, 2008 at 11:51 am
I have been wrong before. I could be wrong now. But would I bet against myself? No.
If you’ve been reading what I’ve written here for as long as I think you have, then I’m not sure how much clearer I can make it to you.
March 30th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Kurt,
That video was completely off-topic… and entirely wonderful. Thanks.
March 30th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
I tell you what… if RW actually puts the money where the mouth is and confesses his failed prophecies then he’s the dawgone George Washington of false prophets. The first man to voluntarily lay down his office as false prophet and turn the reigns over to someone else. That’s friggin commendable. He’ll be the talk of European high society.
I think Ironwolf’s list is completely in order. In fact, I think one more item should be added: that Ron step down as minister as well, and permanently. No elder, no deacon, just a regular joe. Let him go sit in the audience and remain silent.
March 30th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
I don’t think that [Weinland stepping down permanently] is likely at all, at least not according to this 2005 Feast report a former member of the CoG-PKG just sent me………..
March 30th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Kurt,
Very good vid
March 30th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
thanks weinlandwatch for that extra info. I read what you posted. Great stuff! Added a comment.
March 30th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
hehe The “NOT ONE WORD” sermon! lol I remember listening to the recordings of that. I wondered what the people on the inside felt. Now I know.
My paraphrase:
‘If you don’t believe Jesus was just a man [and He was raised up like I will be] - NOT ONE WORD! If you don’t believe, get out now! ….but we need to be patient with people who don’t believe, because we care.’
March 30th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Yeah that falls in line with the “I’ll escort anyone [professing Messianic Judaism] out by the ear!” comments from the sermon 22 March…….
March 30th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Thanks Kurt for that video!
March 30th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Ron talks about these web sites that mock and criticizes him, and he says we should get a life. It is chilling to hear him reach out to the young people in his sermons.
He may have been speaking to me when he says to get a life. After all I have not lost anyone or anything to his ministry. And yet I keep posting…
Posting on a blog like this is fun for me. But the more Ron reveals of himself the more I can understand the fears of those who have loved ones in his Church. So it is not so much fun anymore.
The last time I blogged was in 03 to try to stop the war. It was different then.
March 30th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
well, time is drawing to a close and watch what the important religious leader says on April 17 and 18th. Time for the two witness to begin prophesing will begin at the time in jerusalem and the second witness will be revealed. Obviously, if nothing happens in the next five weeks that is physical-Ron will not be who he says he is. If the trumpets of the seventh seal are spritualized away then he will not be who he says he is. It is clear that is turning point in cog-pkg organization is coming in the next five weeks. There will be no excuses made by me as a member.
March 30th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
W Says;
Who are you?
March 30th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
I used to post earlier in the discussion, but I headed off to take care of family or friends etc., I have signed on as a different name than before because I too lazy go back and post what name I used before.
March 30th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
How can you post here and be a member of the COG-PKG?
March 30th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
because people need to keep the minds open is these matters and now follow blindly at the whims of the leadership.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
That is the truth. There is no doubt there.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Are there many like you who are keeping open minds?
March 30th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
some people still staying open-minded, but probably will not post here after the last several sermons on not posting on blogs.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Can you get in trouble for posting?
March 30th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
There are people concerned about their loved ones in COG- PKG.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
interesting question, not sure, but in all things you have to see, hear, feel, and touch with an open mind. It is clear that the turning point for the organization is coming in the next thirty five days. Whether or not I get into trouble is not the right question, but whether or not this is place where the truth exists. Right now, I have an open mind and I stay put because the people I associate with are all rational thinking people.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
W, why have you and the membership given RW so much latitude? If you have been reading this blog most of us here have all ready come to the conclusion that RW us false. How do you feel about the lack of any single prophecy coming to light, no 5th thunder during the 6th seal, no significant event occuring during the 7th seal., etc, etc.. How would you characterize the feeling at this time in the PKG? Are people beginning to wonder? Are you surprised at the level of attention RW gave to the “skeptics” & “critics”? Do any other members display or share any skeptisicm? We understand that RW has forbidden visiting this and other websites. What happens if RW finds out? Do you know if RW has any of his “people” monitoring this and other websites? Do you know if RW is personally monitoring?
March 30th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Yes, you have to have a balance attitude in all things biblical, spritual, financial, rational, and emotionally. All I can say is that people worried about their loved ones to hold tight and keep both eyes open, but not try to force them out of the church. It all depends on how old they are and whether or not they listening to the sermons and comparing it with what is said in the Bible. Are these loved ones not paying their bills or going to the doctor or something?
March 30th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Do you think/ feel that is the right place to be? At one point, I felt that to be the right place to be myself. But here I am talking to someone that is forbidden to talk to me. That in itself seems messed up. Sorry if that makes no sense.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Yes there have been some who have forsaken paying bills/fulfilling their financial responsibilities because of what Weinland has been preaching.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Robert S,
Back off with the interrogation tactics, please.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
I am sure people are visiting the different web sites that are negative toward pkg. Personally, I am giving RW the benefit of the doubt for the time being, but I am paying close attention. I can speculate and whether or not it becomes true, but be rested assured that if nothing happens I will not be moving the date back. The feeling in pkg is that the end of the age is near, and no one will question him as one of two witnesses for several more weeks yet. Everyone is paying close attention to world events and if nothing happens, a few people will stay the entire 3 1/2 years, but I will not be one of them if nothing happens. It seems like he will declare him not a be true if nothing happens either.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Kurt, W can speak for himself, which is why I beleive he is here. I’m not interrogating, I am asking simple straightforward sincere questions, which W can choose to answer or not, for himself.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Thank you for speaking to us w. We have been cut off from those in COG-PKG .
March 30th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
I got to head out, but if someone in the church has stopped being bills, then they need to reevaluate their priorities. People must stay on top of the financial business even if this is the end of the age. I see no where in the Bible to stop having a normal life at the end of the age.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Why are you here W?
March 30th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
No it isn’t in the bible to not have a normal life; it is because Weinland is preaching that a third of all plant life, animals, and tens of thousands of people are going to die, people are not going to treat fiscal responsibilities as a priority—if they truly believe the armageddon Weinland is selling them, and that destruction is set to begin (within 6 to 12 months) April 17th.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Thanks for the response W,
Couple more questions as long as Kurt doesn’t mind, there has been some speculation on how many current members are in the PKG, do you have any iidea of the actual number? Have you seen that number increase, decrease, or stay the same lately?
March 30th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Am I the only one disturbed by the phrase “no one will question him as one of two witnesses for several more weeks yet”? So much for April 17th! Looks like the membership fell hook line and sinker for the “by Pentecost” or “by July” Weinland statements made at services for the elders’ meeting in Cinci yesterday.
I wonder what Weinland’s excuse is going to be in July. Oh that’s right they’re going to start gearing up for Atonement then, and after that, the Feast of Tabernacles (2008) will be back on again as “god progressively reveals” things of course because Weinland hasn’t “got the fog. First the fast and then the Feast after all! Smile brethren!
March 30th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Am I the only one disturbed by the phrase “no one will question him as one of two witnesses for several more weeks yet”? So much for April 17th! Looks like the membership fell hook line and sinker for the “by Pentecost” or “by July” Weinland statements made at services for the elders’ meeting in Cinci yesterday.
I wonder what Weinland’s excuse is going to be in July. Oh that’s right they’re going to start gearing up for Atonement then, and after that, the Feast of Tabernacles (2008) will be back on again as “god progressively reveals” things of course because Weinland hasn’t “got the foggiest idea” what’s going to happen until it’s upon him.
First the fast and then the Feast after all! Smile brethren!
March 30th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
W;
As you can see we have a spy amongst us, there I go being a Troll. God speed.
March 30th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
WW,
You wrote the following:
“Weinland Transcripted: That’s a good starting point. I plan to get some verbatim quotes from the sermon up from it. The only (minor) quibble I have with the transcript is that Passover is the 18th, not the 14th.”
I believe he was referencing Lev 23
: and refering to the Jewish Passover being on the evening of the 14th, not the 15th like so many people believe in the scattered church according to Weinland.
Yes the Passover is on the 18th of April on our calendar, but it really is the 14th of the first month on the Jewish calender.
Hope this helps
March 30th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
WW, it sounds like there are at least a few others like W, but if you’re all ready predisposed to thinking we are in the end-times anyway, believed RW hook, line, and sinker, I can understand how a PKG member is going to rationalize these inconsistencies, they simply “want” to believe. Sadly from my perspective. Your concerns as well as family members, are well founded, this could get messy
March 30th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Robert S: I’m not “w” and I don’t have exact inside info on the numbers in the church, but simple logic may suffice:
Presuming the baptismal numbers given during the announcements are correct and not inflated, @ approx. 20 baptisms a week since Jan. ‘08, approximate 250 - 300 so far this year in the US. The overseas numbers are much, much smaller (there are only five members of the Queensland congregation, for instance, likely all in the same family, and there were only thirty baptized out of the entire international membership while Weinland was in the Netherlands), and figure approximately twenty members per US “congregation”:
I would be very, very surprised, if the number of baptized and attending members in the CoG-PKG worldwide is at or exceeds a thousand members in total. Weinland isn’t kidding when he says they are a small church.
The number of “interested by-standers” (back in WCG days they would have been known as “co-workers”) may be larger due to Weinland’s church’s reach across the Internet. But even Weinland has acknowledged in sermons that these aren’t “true” members, and is starting to back off from encouraging children to join up, because of parental pressure (which I heartily applaud) and potential litigation problems the church might encounter because of that.
Here is hoping the informational efforts ex-CoG members like Ironwolf, Ambassador Watch, Shadows of WCG, and maybe even my small effort, can make the numbers even smaller.
After the “several weeks” passes before members will even think of questioning Weinland as one of the two witnesses (W uses some interesting wording there—does that imply the members do not question Weinland’s wife as the other witness?), perhaps the church will grow even smaller.
March 30th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Robert S, you are correct, there was some mention of the 14th Nisan (that wasn’t made clear in the transcript) as opposed to the 18th which is when CoG-PKG is having their Passover in the sermon.
As for the rationalizations, and “w”’s liberal stance, believe me I know, I know in spades: I have USED some of those same rationalizations, around ‘91-’93 when the Tkaches were trying to bring the changes down like the hammer of doom, and suggesting things that were (to my “converted” mind) completely heretical. Even after the fateful sermon in December of ‘94, we stayed in for two years, hoping that things would get, if not necessarily “better”, then at least a little less confusing.
Of course there were others in my congregation (every congregation had at least one or two) who were considered “liberal”, in the sense that they didn’t let the church ru(i)n their lives. Naturally they welcomed the changes and went on as if nothing had really “changed” in the first place.
For every one or two who had balanced heads on their shoulders however, there were at least a hundred more who consulted the pastor, before they redecorated their house, changed jobs or schools, or considered a purchase such as a new house or a new car.
I have been on the other side of that looking-glass, and I know what it is like, to have that absolutely unshakeable, unfounded faith that is based in nothing more than what had been pounded into my head, sermon after sermon after sermon, for as far back as I could remember.
I know they believe. I know, too, how badly they want to believe, even as Weinland’s house of cards is being scattered on the wind.
This could indeed get messy. Especially with Weinland painting himself into a corner, setting fast and firm dates, then backing off, then setting new dates further in the future. I know why people want to believe him, even when he changes his story time and time again. They want to believe, not Weinland himself, but that their own trust in Weinland, that their own faith, has not been misguided from the very beginning. Which it has.
Sadly, that is not the case, and the “shattered faith syndrome” spoken of here is what many members of the CoG-PKG have yet to face, if they are not already facing it now.
March 30th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Robert S, Robert S, Robert S;
“Your concerns as well as family members, are well founded, this could get messy”
Wrap my mind around that! What does that mean?
Robert S, Robert S, Robert S?
Am I being a troll? Just kick me off I don’t need this crap.
March 30th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Thanks WW, you guys do good work, even if your efforts only reach a small number, any number prevented from signing up to the RW lunacy is well worth the effort
March 30th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Hold off, perhapses I misunderstood what was said.
March 30th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Not sure where this guy is coming from.
March 30th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Long time listener, first time caller. Always wanted to say that.
Great googly-moogly, w. Your post has lightened my heart!! Tell everyone like you that they have overflowing support. MANY are in other COGs watching and praying and hoping and will stand by you all in everything. Even the people here who are not in any such group would love to see all these out of any harm’s way.
I know what it is like to get caught up with Mr. Weinland. I have many loved ones that have fallen for him. PLEASE take care of yourself.
w, I would ask you to please contact me by email in private. Completely private, completely off the record. Contact me at this address (copy and paste because it has to be exact) before this time tomorrow if you are interested:
tJiq69QK9BB1r6vw@spambox.us
March 30th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Thanks Robert S. I certainly hope so. It gets a little disheartening at times; it sometimes feels as though I am yelling into my own “echo chamber”. Then I cruise by AW, Shadows, and here, and I know I’m definitely not alone.
March 30th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Kurt, if you had the ability to put yourself into someone elses shoes, figurativeley of course, you might be able see the serious psychological investment members of the PKG have made. An investment like that is not just discarded like the garbage you toss out from the kitchen waste basket. It can create serious psychological scars, and depending on the individual can manifest itself in many different forms. Why do think this site exists in the 1st place, why do you think so many ex WCG members are concerned? Do you have the ability to see beyond the end of your nose?
March 30th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
exactly, Robert.
These people feel they are led by God. By God! Not Ron. They follow Ron because they believe they follow God. Does that make sense? When these people are failed by Ron, that is tantamount to getting kicked in the nads by reality and they have to face that perhaps they were not led by God. That’s like having your parents die. It’s like having the law of gravity suddenly shut off. Reality itself will crash down for these people. Now they have to worry about bills, bankruptcy, where to live in some cases. But what’s more than that, their view of eternal life after death rested on their blind faith in this heartless con artist. He’s not only stolen their money!!
I lack the skill and the terms with which I can stress the importance enough of the terrible time those people are about to experience.
March 30th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
The real question here is if Ronald Weinland is false because his April prediction will not come true?
Or….
If Ronald Weinland is not one of the two witnesses?
Also, in your opinion, who are the two witnesses? Are they churches? Are they actually two individual people? Is the book of Revelation a book in the Bible that is a fictitious symbolic bunch of sh*t?
March 30th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
For many people in scattered offshoots from former WCG, most of the independent pastors I know are concerned by the amount of publicity that this man is getting and the number of unsuspecting, uneducated people that are following this man. RW and David Pack should be ashamed of themselves for extorting tithes from these people. From his books it is apparent that he doesn’t understand what was taught in the former WCG. For clarification about British Israelism The Churches of God, for the most part, teach that the Israelite countries are not part of the beast power. They teach that the two countries of England and America are Ephriam and Manassah and that these two countries are what God’s wrath is going to come on. It is taught that the throne of England which houses the stone of destiny, is the throne that Jesus will return to. I put this in for clarification.
I hope I haven’t overstepped my bounds.
March 30th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Weinland definately had a field day with his critics as the sermon topic. I cannot believe that he spent so much time talking about the critics and their bad attitudes. (I would really want to know how his followers felt following Saturday’s sermon?)
The only question that I have is who wrote the email that suggested that his “tongue” should be cut out of his mouth? The best part was that this same individual asked 2 times to be ordained as an Elder in Weinland church. Why would anyone want that responsibility. You would probably have “Usher Duty” or “parking duty” before and after church. Who would want that? And, if you pissed off Ron by disagreeing with him on some issue, then you probably would be forced to have “extra duties” or get out of his church, depending on Ron’s mood!!!
Unfortunately, after listening to 2 and one-half years of sermons, it is evident that Weinland does not like people who disagree or question his thought processes. Weinland likes “Yes, Sir” people, and unless you are one of these sheep who would never dare to question his authority, then you would fit in just fine in his organization. The question that I have is why is his membership so small and has been small for years? It has never seemed to grow. I remember Ron in one of his sermons stating that he was in disqusted with a television personality who filled entire stadiums week after week (hint: Joel O.). He calmly stated that he would be dealt with by God. Actually, I believe that he was jealous of him. That’s probably every preachers “wet dream” to have a stadium filled with people and to watch the money - roll in!!!
Weinland talks about the critics having a poor attitudes, maybe he should look in the mirror. Its unfortunate for us critics, because if Weinland is who he says he is and assumes the role of one of the end-time witnesses, we all probably are dead. In the last sermon, he basically implied that we will all die during the next 3 and one-half years, because we would not be capable of repenting. I do not know how he can be so sure.
March 30th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Kurt: just watched the video…my right hemisphere thanks you!
W: you know by posting here you are foresaking RW…don’t you???… I give you high kudos for being so open-minded, but it really is a contradiction that you are here. I lost my closest friend’s open-minded spirit to the strong-hold of RW in a very short period of time…and we have gotten to the point when we talk about RW and the end time ends it ends up in a heated discussion…so I just back off…I don’t want her to think I am attacking her decision…but by me attacking RW, it pretty much means I’m attacking her spiritual beliefs…I love her too much to do that and I do respect everyone’s right to believe in what they want…..I just can’t stomach RW…like my friend says to me:”don’t kill the messenger”…what I know is: “the messenger twists the message to suit his needs.”
I know members of the COG read this blog….RW needs to know his enemy..”the evil ones” (that’s how he refered to us in his last sermon.)….well, let me tell you, I’m not evil…far from it…and I resent RW’s persecutionary remarks against people seeking the truth, communicating to each other about it, (whether critical or sarcastically). and RW has a “prophetic license” to get away with threats in his sermon (I can’t imagine that is God’s words he spoke)…I said it before, and I think it bares repeating…RW is a dillusional bully.
March 30th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Doug, if I may answer your question. Hello, by the way. Ron’s church never seems to grow because every few years he takes the money from whatever church he’s in and runs off to form a new corporate organization.
March 30th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Hey Robert s;
Got a big nose and cannot see beyond it, just think you totally mishandled that. Hope we hear from w again.
March 30th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Doug not every preacher wants everyone;s money. Yes I would like ot see the seats filled but they can keep their money.
March 30th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Peter: the answers to you questions:
RW is false…period
no…he is not one of the end time witnesses because of answer above.
We are not in the end time.
Peter: what exactly do you believe or not believe????…your questions have no rhyme or reason….are you playing with us or are your thoughts really that scattered?
March 30th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Well when are we in the end times Robbi? I guess you give no validation to the Mayan calendar and think that is a bunch of crap? Have you studied it? If you don’t believe we are in the end times now, I think you are watching too much CNN and Fox News and being mind controlled.
Do you believe in the Bible? Do you believe it is the word of God? You might see no rhyme or reason to what I have to say, but I don’t see much of your opinion about the Bible, end times, and who the two witnesses are. Whether it is some other 2 people that will come along in 100 years/1000 years from now? Or if they are two churches? Or if the book of Revelations is a bunch of crap.
March 30th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Things are bad and getting worse, oh and guess what, doing nothing hasn’t solved anything!
Peter seems to want to feed on peoples natural fears.
March 30th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
To anyone: correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t RW say that the opening of the 4th seal was marked with the terrorist attacks of 9/11?…if so, then why would the opening of the 7th seal be marked with just prophetic spirituality….wouldn’t it make sense it would have been marked with something that would have paled the 9/11 hits in comparison??…honestly, the more I think about it, the more contradictions I find!
March 30th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Robbi (I like your name BTW)
You are doing the right thing by keeping the lines of communication open with your friend. She will soon need you
your support. Since from what you said earlier, neither of you were COG members before, her “investement” may not be as great and having your support and freindship available will go a long way.
Listening to WW & Richard S’s characterizations of the “hard core members” is actually frightening. Thier investments are so completely internalized with such core beliefs, they are desparetly going to need serious help and support once the truth becomes realized.
It’s really so sad and disturbing when I read WW last post
March 30th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Peter: I can see you are searching for truths….that said, I will repeat myself once again….I do not believe in the Allmighty God..therefore, I do not believe in the “end time”, therefore, I do not believe in the end-time witnesses and I do not believe in the bible as the written word of God Allmighty(notice how I cap my letters when refering to God, that my friend is out of respect to those who do believe)…..I have read the teachings of the Mayans and their calendar long ago, probably before you were born…so yes, I am familiar. I DO believe we are in for turbulant times, more terrorists attacks on a scale we have not experienced before, but also believe it is not the end of mankind as we know it…we have the capability to stop the madness without blowing ourselves up in the process. I HAVE HOPE for mankind, whereas RW DOES NOT. that’s about it…
March 30th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
9-11 was the 6th seal
March 30th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Hey Robbi;
You must have missed that part about Gods prophecy being gradually revealed. And it was the 6th, not the 4th. But anyway, moving along here.
So there was a space of 30 minutes, something from the bible, lost my train of thought, Oh yea! it was a spiritual revelation that the 30 minutes was a space of 30 days of quite that had not been revealed until now.
The harder you look the more contradictions you will find.
March 30th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Robert S: I know there are things my friend does not tell me because she knows I will worry even more for her…I tell her every day that I love her, and she knows I do….and no matter what happens, I will be there for her, always!
March 30th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Kurt, it’s spelled QUIET not quite
March 30th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
6th seal…I knew that…didn’t proof read again…sorry about that !
Kurt: I got that “gradual part”…you mean the back peddling?
Robert S: do people call you Robbi as well? (mine is not short for Robert though)
March 30th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
I just want to thank you for creating a place where all the garbage that is being spilled is cleared up. I almost bought the storyline, but something kept telling me that is was not true. The man is a gifted spellbinder.
March 30th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Hello Felicia, I hope I had some part, in clearing up that storyline.
March 30th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
p.s Peter: if you are in your 30’s..I commend you for searching out truths, most 30somethings I know are searching for more $$$…but remember: TRUTHS are personal, can be as unique as every individual who seeks them. As an old proverb states: “with age comes wizdom to some, and to others more stupidity”
March 30th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Robbi,
I’m actually a Jr, so my Dad was Bob, I am Rob. My Mom uses Robby
RW used the term Spiritual for the impact of the 7th seal, and now there is some question whether the 17th will be spiritualized as well, so thats were the 3 to 6 months, and for some end of the year, and for others whenever any catastrope occurs is coming from.
March 30th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Felicia: did you go as far as being baptised in the COG?…if I may ask…
March 30th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Robert S;
Thanks for clearing up that spelling error of mine. How could I have any possible chance of making it to the return of Jesus without the ability to spell? Thank you so much, you are so special to me.
March 30th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Robert S: Sad and disturbing but true. I’ve been exited for almost fifteen years now, and I am only now just coming to terms with being born and raised in the church.
Mind that could be because when my family exited the other family members (who were “called to the truth”; not born and raised in it) just dropped everything CoG-related like flipping a switch. So it all got swept under the carpet, and we walked around pretending as though we had never believed or behaved in the strange and wacky ways that we did.
If my story adds one more voice to the ever-increasing clamour of the harm that has been done, and still is being done, in the name of Armstrongism, then maybe my experiences were worth it, in some small way. I would not be able to provide a beacon against the darkness after all, if I had not once walked in that darkness myself.
March 30th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Ironwolf: have you noticed more new people signing on to this thread since the last sermon? I have to wonder if some of RW’s followers were a little disillusioned with this last sermon…also…
do you have any control over the 2 typed words we have to type in before commenting?
March 30th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
WW, your good work and intentions are noticed and appreciated. Like I said, even if you prevented only one person from getting sucked in it was and is well worth the effort. When I landed here so many weeks ago, I had no idea the scope of the problem.
March 30th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Kurt: stop being so sarcastic..you don’t have to take things so personally!…you gotta learn not to sweat the small stuff….you should be more concerned with RW’s characterization of us….”the evil ones” who will be dealt with. If all you’re guilty of is mispelling a couple of words, then you’re in pretty good shape in my book my friend!
March 30th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
turning in…good nite everyone
March 30th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
it’s been a while since i’ve checked in here. i am thrilled that we have some CoG members posting again. God bless you!!!
hi robbi, how are you doing?
WW could you post the link to your page again. Sorry, i misplaced it and don’t remember which of your 1000’s of posts it was on. Thank you!!
March 30th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Katie: couldn’t leave without saying hi to you too! I’m hanging in there, how are you?…did you stay long in the “great debate”? I haven’t been in since the first night…too heady for me…I really prefer to debunk RW, not the belief in the Allmighty.
March 30th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Robbi, you said you studied and researched the Mayan calendar so long ago, that it was probably before I was born. So 30 years ago huh? What books were you reading during that time that discussed it and that discussed 2012?
Do you know that it really all started coming out during the mid-1980s. That was just one book during that time. Oh ya, there was a 1975 National Geographic that discussed the Mayan calendar and it did discuss the beginning date, but never did it mention the end date, you know why? because they did figure out the clues yet at that point of time. Further research was done, new discoveries and that is how they got to 2012. It really is 2011 though.
And ya, I had a feeling you didn’t believe in God or the Bible but you believe in this new age stuff like Eckhart Tolle, “A New Earth” book, that Oprah highly recommends? You choose to believe that over the book of Revelations? Ok, whatever suits your fancy.
Do you honestly believe man can help save this world now? Do you honestly believe we, all of us, can transcends our ego-based state of consciousness so we can achieve personal happiness and also end conflict and suffering in the world? I would like that, but in reality it is not going to happen. That has never been achieved throughout human history and there is no way it could be achieved now for various reasons.
March 30th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Here’s a word from a lurking individual who really hasn’t a clue. For crying out loud! I want some hope, some reason for the insanity. Weinland is feeding off of me! Where is God? We need him now more than ever. Nothing makes sense. HELP!!!
March 30th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Robbi, about to turn 30. I can tell you this, a year and a half ago, I was out buying clothes at Macy’s every weekend. Buying nice clothes to look good, partying it up, really taking pride in my body and working out. Doing that steriod stuff to try to look good for the ladies. Then all of a sudden about last March, I was illuminated. My state of consciousness changed. I can’t say that Jesus came to me or God spoke to me, because that never happened. ha! But I will say, I stopped becoming shallow. I stopped trying to live in the materialistic state of the world, (about money, toys, etc.) knowing that it could all change over night. I would rather understand more about my surroundings, life in general, why we are here, previous civilizations, other points of views, keeping an open mind, being a free thinker.
March 30th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
oooooooh Peter: are you trying to push my buttons! I know the Mayan calendar has been “corrected from 2012 to 2011″ and yes, you are correct…there was no internet back then., and very limited books..oh my gosh..I’m dating myself..you found me out!…however, way back in the dark ages, there were college classes on ANCHIENT CIV, and there were many learned and traveled men and women….can you believe it, some of us hippies were actually paying attention back then? I have no idea who Eckhart Tolle is, and no, I’m not a “newager”…I do, of course, know who Oprah is, but I do not watch her show…I used to watch her when her show originated from Chicago, back then it was “shock TV”, she rivalled Phil Donahue…oh my gosh, I’m dating myself again.
Peter, I am positive you are much more well versed in the advanced Mayan civilization than I will ever be!…but the point is, I’m not searching…not in that area anyway…atleast, not right now and not in this thread….what I do know is that RW is a dangerous leader to many whose lives may be shattered when they come to the realization that he is a false prophet, and that worries me!
March 30th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
now…I really am turning in…later…
March 30th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Ironwolf, your perception of my argument is more than fair. I’m sure you realize that many of my other statements had similar fallacies. In order to make my point (which was very elusive) I cheated by ignoring the basic principles of reasoning and debate to GET to the point. I did this to keep the argument short and allow others to interact. In my eyes, many individuals are getting way to lengthy on this blog, just to sound structurally correct. To be fair to you and your readers, I will restrain from exploring tangents that blur my arguments. Anyhow, the point I was trying to make is thatI live in the here and now. Yesterday already happened and tomorow has yet to occur. That being said, I have yet to see any proof that anyone can predict future events with absolute certainty. I do believe there are many events that one can make a logical guesstimate about; however, the event if predicted does come to pass is nothing more than the occurence of an educated guess (or some other form of guess. I.e. delusional, hallucinated, dreamt, etc.) and not of divine revelation. RW is makin vague predictions and leaving himself outs at every turn. I have found several holes in RWs predictions and just need to clarify my interpretations with others such as yourself.
Some issues that I would like to discuss are as follows:
1. Did anyone else notice RWs responses after Katrina? said that was nothing? Yet was proud that it had happened and at the same time sounded disappointed that more hadn’t perished? (Selfish, not Godlike)
2. In his book 2008 GFW, he states that he is granted some personal wishes like some sort of Genie is passing them out to the 2 final witnesses. This would seem to go against his disbelief in the symbols that others utilize to celebrate holidays. In addition, if he is now Godlike, what would he care of the pastors of his former COG. He has stated several times that God is not here causing disasters and diseases. That being the case, why would RW chose to impose future deaths of those he worked with in the ministry?
3. Here is why I believe that RW is being evasive: He states “By the fall of 2008, the United States will have collapsed as a world power, OR it will have BEGUN it’s collapse and no longer exist as an independant nationwithin SIX months after that time.” He then asserts that “There is a MARGINAL, SIX-month window of time God has not yet revealed concerning this specific moment of TIME.” In these two quotes alone(page 244) one could reasonably deduce that he is looking for outs to milk this thing along. If this perception is unreasonable or innaccurate, please enlighten me.
By the way, did anyone hear how upset he sounded (was) over seeing an Easter Bunny last Saturday on his was to give his sermon last Saturday? Maybe the Easter Bunny left rocks in his eggs when he was a boy?
March 30th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
So I guess if April rolls around with nothing happening that means that Harold Camping is a false prophet and also Dr. Carl Johan Calleman is a false prophet. Oh but wait, they aren’t calling themselves prophets, they are just telling us what they believe is going to happen from their research.
March 30th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
So Robbi, did you know who Terrance McKenna was back then? His whole time wave zero theory? You did say you followed that stuff when you were a hippie so you might know who Terence McKenna is.
March 30th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Katie:
The URL to the blog is linked in my name in the comment, but if you are looking for the “entry-point” primer page on Weinland, that would be here.
The main blog is here.
For “listener” if you want hope, I suggest you look in the mirror. Ask yourself what you, personally, can do to make your small part of the world a better place each day. Even if all you do is pick up one piece of litter or recycle a single newspaper. It is the small causes that have the largest effects. (I hope……)
As for the world around you, know that “the world” has seen worse than this, and will see worse than this yet. Things are not nearly as bad as the prophets want them to be, and the doom-and-gloom they are preaching is only to keep the the cash-cow milked. Open your eyes and look around you, really look around you to “the world” that Weinland is telling you to forsake.
After all, this world is all we have, prophets and prophecies notwithstanding. The fact that you are putting your life on hold for someone else, anyone else, because you believe you are separate from the world and called out, is wrong. You are a part of this world, and this world is a part of you, and no rules, regulations, and restrictions are ever going to change that.
There are good people in this world. None of them are members of the various Churches of God. There are some good people in some of the various Churches of God, but they are the shining exceptions to the rule, and they are very few and extremely far between.
One last thought and then I must be off for the night as well: Harold Camping believes in leprechauns. No really. Leprechauns. If you don’t believe me, check for yourself.
March 30th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Katie said..
“I found Jesus’ willingness to take my punishment for my sins”
So everybody else must be wrong? Before I take my last breathe I’m just going to say that I found Jesus and that he lives in my heart and live a wholesome life..I’ve been down this path with several churches and I know for a fact this is bs.
March 30th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Don’t give up. listener, There is a plan being worked out. All those who don’t take the time to prove all things, will not see that History proves the future.
The book of revelation is proven by understanding history laid out in Daniel.
March 30th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Hey WW,
This is what Camping said as you already know!
“Before we finish this analysis of the Liang Bua cave disaster, we should take note of one additional thought. Repeatedly, we hear fanciful stories of leprechauns and elves, and in Indonesian and Malay folklore, of Ebu Gogo and Orang Pendek. These mythical stories describe very small humans who apparently have appeared in many countries of the world. I believe these stories are developed because it would appear that at various times during the 7,000 years following the Flood, skeletal remains of pre-Flood individuals who died in the Noachian Flood were unearthed. Because of the tiny size of these individuals, fanciful imaginative stories were developed concerning them.”
You make it sound like he is saying there are really leprechauns out there, or were out there in the past. If you read that quote above, it really doesn’t. So stop trying to discredit this guy too from his research and understandings. Even Camping has been claimed as a false prophet by some people out there, but not once did he say he was ever a prophet.
You could discredit Terence McKenna is you would like too, if you actually happen to know who that guy is, and say, oh the guy is a nut since he was always on LSD. You can try to discredit anyone if you try to nit pick on something they have said that doesn’t adhere to your beliefs.
You could even discredit Einstein if you would like by trying to take something he has said, and then mold it into making him look like he wasn’t all that brilliant and had it completely wrong.
You make it sound like Weinland is going to do some ritual blood sacrifice on its members. You make it sound like they are some Heaven’s Gate cult. Why?
Let me ask you this, and I don’t know where you stand with God and the Bible. Do you believe in God and the Bible and that Christ was resurrected? I have no clue really where you stand, but I sure do know where you stand with Weinland and Camping.
March 30th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
WW I truly feel sorry for you. I know you have been hurt and there are thousands of other people just like you. My son being one of them. He spent his teenage years in the church and saw a lot of hypocrisies in the hierarchy. What I have told everyone that I have talked to is this. don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. If something is true it will be true today and tomorrow. People say and do stupid things. Leaders are sometimes bad. You can find them in all walks of life. There is truth, there is faith, there is hope. I admonish all people to keep the faith, prove all things.
March 30th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Porter, there is no baby in the bath water. But there are a few rats.
March 30th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
pastor porter - are you one of those who have proven the book of Revelation through Daniel- let’s see the first go around via ‘1975 in prophecy’? Just wondering…. a lot of people have been hurt from ministers standing behind a podium knowing little about what they were talking about - for instance around 1972, 73, 74, like ‘you won’t be graduating from high school because the end is near… sound familiar? Probably not - as most that lived through it, preached it, still believe it - oh ‘what we taught was right - timing wrong’….seem to have amnesia about what Armstrong taught that was full of crap, too. There is truth, there is faith and there is hope - but it has nothing to do with anything Armstrong or any of his splinters teach.
March 30th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Ekimks and Marie, I’m sorry that you two have been hurt so bad. For clarification, and I hope I am not preaching here, I’m stating my beliefs merely for clarification. I do not set dates. When it happens it will happen. But history proves prophecy. Here are some of the things that I teach. If you find fault with them please tell me in PEM
I teach that you should eat your tithe before God, you should not give them to anyone else. I do believe and keep the things that my example did in the new testament. I teach that you should keep the Saturday Sabbath, If in your heart you feel you wished you were somewhere else other than in church on the Sabbath you should be somewhere else, your not doing any good at church. I teach that you should keep the holy days, they give a picture of the plan of God. I eat clean foods because they are good for me. If it isn’t done in the new testament by Jesus or the apostles I don’t teach that we must do it. I believe in baptism and the laying on of hands. That’s basically it. That is the baby, most have thrown out everything. anyone is welcome to come to our church and no one is ever asked for or pressured for money. There is an offering box in the back and if anyone wants to donate it is up to them. There are no salaries here. We own our own building that not one person in the congregation was asked to contribute to and it is paid for. it is five years old and is about 5000 sq. feet, not big but big enough. I hope everyone gets the emotional healing they need.
March 30th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Hey Listener,
I know everyone has their opinion and there are no shortages here, but here is mine, I hope it helps you.
When ANYONE is looking for hope or answers in ANYONE ELSE, there will always be problems. No one can fill that void, or empty place in someone else.
I have found my place (of hope) through PERSONAL study with the bible, without time frames or judgements from others. Without the need to please anyone, go anywhere, pay anyone, agree with anyone or prove anything to anyone.
It is a personal journey, with a personal Christ.
March 30th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Pastor said, ” they give a picture of the plan of God.” speaking of the Holy Days…
This is NOT provable from scripture.
It is ONLY a theory based on scripture
March 30th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Banncam, I didn’t ask you to believe what I wrote. I said these were “my” beliefs.
March 30th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Pastor, I like Acts 15
and the books of Colossians and Galations.
March 30th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Okay, you are right
March 30th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Porter, The “baby” you describe deserves to be thrown out with the bathwater.
And in exactly how have I been hurt so bad? On what do you base this statement?
These were rhetorical questions. Your statement while clothed in sympathetic terms really was intended to marginalize my considered opinion. You can believe all that crap if you want, but keep your faux sympathy to yourself.
March 30th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Then are you a Pauline theologists? I particularly like this passage in Ac 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
March 30th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
yes I love that scripture too
March 30th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
In Ron’s interview with the Edge on December 15, 2007, it is mentioned that he would not go to Jerusalem until the time that the 2 witnesses would die in September of 2011. Apparently, as Weinland refers to us as the critics, he must of learned something from us regarding Rev 11:2
. In his last sermon he changed his mind and will be going to Jerusalem as he assumes the role of the 2 witnesses. The question remains will he stay there in Jerusalem for 42 months as required? Here is the transcription. http://weinlandtranscripted.wordpress.com/
March 30th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
In Ron’s interview with the Edge on December 15, 2007, it is mentioned that he would not go to Jerusalem until the time that the 2 witnesses would die in September of 2011. Apparently, as Weinland refers to us as the critics, he must of learned something from us regarding Rev 11:2
. In his last sermon he changed his mind and will be going to Jerusalem as he assumes the role of the 2 witnesses. The question remains will he stay there in Jerusalem for 42 months as required? Here is the transcription.
It 12/15/07 Interview part 2
http://weinlandtranscripted.wordpress.com/
March 30th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
only on your statement about rats. I really do feel sorry for all those who in times past put their trust in human leaders and who have been hurt and are damaged. I wish I could make everything better, I would like nothing more than to be close to friends that have gone out of my life because they were hurt by unscrupulous ministers. There is nothing I can do but wish. I wish I had some wand I could wave and give the thousands of people all their money back. That is not possible .there are still rats out there but not everyone who believes like I do is a rat.
March 30th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Me thinks RW will take a little tour of the Holy Land and come back.
March 30th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Pastor - I don’t know you and wouldn’t judge your motives or what you teach - that’s up to you and the people who listen to you week after week. I’m sure you are very sincere in your beliefs.
Yeah, I was hurt by false teaching from the pulpits of Armstrong and all his false teachers. I haven’t thrown the baby out with the bathwater at all. In fact the opposite. I have found faith, hope, healing and and truth in my relationship with Jesus Christ. Amazingly, God answers my prayers and I don’t keep the 7th day Sabbath. Amazingly, God has worked in a multide of ways in my life since leaving lies perpetrated by Armstrongism.
I am read this website and others because I have family tied up in RW’s group - and I am very concerned for them. I also have family tied up in other splinter groups. It is sad to see them so bound up by the belief they are the one and only true Christians and God has been so very inept that the gospel has not been preached for over 1900 years???? really????? I wonder what God will say about that.
Original question that went unaswered - do understand Revelation through Daniel - including the ‘1975 In Prophecy’ route???
Thanks for your concern for my hurt. My Redeemer lives and He has, most definately, made lemonade from lemons!
March 30th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Pastor,
Just preach Christ. HE is the ONLY wand that matters. ALL that “OTHER STUFF”….Sabbath, Holy Days….FOOD….EVERY BIT of it…. matters NOT ONE BIT.
But if you are preaching/teaching the others… You are part of “them”
March 30th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
Yay! I love lemonade Marie!
March 30th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Woo Hoo WW! I think YOU are correct!
RW has changed things up a bit and is keeping a close eye on this blog.
If NOT himself, one of his “mini-me’s”
March 30th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Banncam - so what do you make of this Holy Land trip - is RW saying he will be going over there soon???
March 30th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
yeah April 17th RW & little woman (possibly the 2nd witness) and his 2nd in command & wife.
4 of them going.
March 30th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
I think WW is correct. They are changing up some things because of critics.
RW originally said he wouldn’t be going to Holy Land till it was time for him to be killed… But in REV… of course…that isn’t how it is supposed to be…
so,…we’ll see what RW comes up with.
March 30th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
I wonder what they think they are going to accomplish?? That’s kind of scary - what if he decides to spike the Passover wine. I forgot when they are keeping Passover. Will he be out of the country for Passover?
March 30th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
I’m thinking yes, they will be gone for that, although it would seem strange.
I don’t know what they will try to accomplish. HE certainly doesn’t have much love or respect for “Messianic Jews” so I don’t think he will be going over there for any type of “come together” with Jews for Jesus.
Who knows with RW!?!
It may be sort of like all those years in WCG going to the FEAST in Africa or France or where ever….there was NEVER any missions there, no purpose to help or serve people…just go…serve yourself, have a good ole time because it is to picture God’s Kingdom…
Maybe he wants to get the “lay of the land”….
March 30th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Marie,
DID you read all the previous posts about yesterday’s sermon? Sounds like he is REALLY mad at this blog!
I haven’t listened to the unedited version of the message yet. I will do that tomorrow…
March 30th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Revalations 11:10
“The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth” - NIV version.
Doesn’t sound much like the two prophets are suposed to be especially liked by the majority of humanity.
March 30th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
A great song and clip I like to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKzW0D_pjho
March 31st, 2008 at 12:15 am
Exactly peter ….
Maybe we should quit calling it the “end of the world” and start calling it the “return to Innocence”
Because thats what it is.
Still … the video is corny
March 31st, 2008 at 12:29 am
Corny? um ok. Your perception and opinion. What is not corny to you? If you can’t understand that history repeats itself in cycles and the beauty of that video, than I don’t know what you watch, read or listen to.
March 31st, 2008 at 12:43 am
its time to leave now for reading and expecting the things self-called prophet Ron - as I mean a false one - are occupating my mind.
@todaysfate
Yes, you are right, we ARE living in the end-time, but this doesnt mean that we have a specific date to await for because end-time is exactly the time Jesus described his disciples 2.000 years ago, and since then the last days are running, like revelation tells us. So be careful, Jesus will come soon - but the most important thing is, to be prepared ALLTIME! Also the time after April 17th and even if nothing curios happend like Ron wanted us to believe.
@Robert
Thank you for staying here with your blog as an atheist inspite of this is a very worthful and senseful space for thinking about what you prefer the Golden Rule or as Jesus told it LOVE!
See you later in the end of April… good luck to all of you!
March 31st, 2008 at 3:31 am
I thought it might be “fun” to check if there is anything significant about the April 17 date :-
(amongst other events)
1521 - Martin Luther appeared before the imperial [assembly] where his refusal to recant his criticism of the Roman Catholic Church resulted in his excommunication.
1790 - Benjamin Franklin dies.
1924 - Benito Mussolini’s Fascist party wins the Italian elections.
1969 - Sirhan Sirhan is convicted of assassinating Robert F. Kennedy.
Those born on April 17 ….
“…the impression they make on others is undoubtedly a strong one, for they vigorously promote their lofty ambitions with unrelenting certainty and expect others to fall in line with their wishes and convictions…..And because they typically translate their profound thoughts into energetic action, they may frequently find themselves leading the less imaginative…..April 17 people may find enlisting the help of others an arduous task…..they may appear to be somewhat unyielding individuals, who are not afraid to voice their criticism…..It is vital that they try to develop a more relaxed and tolerant approach within every area of their lives…”
I wonder if RW was born on April 17 ?!
———————–
I became more worried when I saw the events for April 19 :-
(They include names like Charles Manson, David Koresh, Timothy McVeigh, and The Pope !)
(amongst other events)
1587 - Sir Francis Drake sinks the Spanish fleet.
1775 - American Revolutionary War - Battle of Lexington and Concord.
1909 - Joan of Arc receives beatification.
1936 - First day of the Great Uprising in Palestine.
1961 - The Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba ends.
1971 - Charles Manson sentenced to life for the Sharon Tate murders.
1993 - Siege of David Koresh’s compound in Waco, Texas ends.
1995 - Oklahoma City bombing by Timothy McVeigh.
2005 - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger elected Pope Benedict XVI.
I really hope that the CoG-PKG members don’t do anything crazy on April 19 - when they realize that nothing happened on April 17.
By the way, isn’t it curious that the Pope will be in New York on the 3rd anniversary of his election, and it appears that RW is planning to be in Jerusalem on the other side of the World. He couldn’t get much further away from his flock on the days that they will probably need him the most.
March 31st, 2008 at 5:38 am
You said, “He couldn’t get much further away from his flock on the days that they will probably need him the most.”
Yeah, this is very strange in my book.
Seems to me if there was really going to be some big stuff happening he’ll want to be close to his followers to “explain it all”…
But as WW showed earlier, scripture says the 2 witnesses will be in Jerusalem for 42 months (I think that was the time frame I read)a… so…he may stay there… and run his tv commercials!
March 31st, 2008 at 5:40 am
Hey Reinhard…
I have to agree with you too and stop allowing this whole issue to occupy so much of my mind.
I have a business to run that has been sitting and waiting for me to pay attention to it….!
I won’t be able to be on the blog quite as much as I have been. I’ll check on it though throughout the day.
March 31st, 2008 at 5:46 am
Peter I liked that clip
March 31st, 2008 at 5:48 am
Just for the record I am not weinlandtranscripted, but I owe WT a huge debt because they saved me a massive amount of time. Here is WT’s transcript of the 3-29-08 sermon, “Three More Weeks”. I completely blanked out that part at the end (or must not have been paying attention where Weinland called on his critics to die. That’s just too precious isn’t it?
By the way I have a feeling our gracious host Ironwolf has been busy with real-world things….I can’t see the “pastor” here being allowed to run on at such lengths unchecked otherwise. I also note Porter has not answered questions about 1975 in Prophecy, except to say that he doesn’t set dates, and to sing the same old same old blame-game song that all the other CoG ministers (and even WCG’s PG, Tkach Jr.) try and lay on those of us who have exited.
Remember people! If we choose to reject “god’s truth” once we’ve been “called to it” it’s all our fault! It is to be a long walk off a short plank in the third resurrection for us! Smile brethren!
Yeurgh. Contrast the pastor’s attitude here with the attitudes of the actual CoG members who have commented on the WW blog as of late, and you’ll get to see the real disconnect in the Churches of God: It’s the ministers.
Always has been. Always will be. Weinland may be at one end of the spectrum and Porter at the other (maybe Porter’s closer to the middle he is a BI proponent after all), but they’re still on the same spectrum, of Armstrongism. And if you think I’m just saying that because I’ve been “hurt” Porter, think again.
Think of Armstrongism like the Titanic, Porter: We “rats” deserted that sinking ship years ago: You appear to us as though you are still clinging to the last plank floating somewhere in the Atlantic with a few other desperate souls.
It’s been over seventy-five years since Armstrong started preaching Armageddon, Porter: Three-quarters of a century later and that kingdom ain’t come yet!
Oh why do I even bother?
March 31st, 2008 at 5:56 am
Here is what Ron is saying about his critics.
120:02: Weinland chastises the critics by saying, “God mocks you critics. God mocks those of you who twist and distort what is true. God will mock your life and what’s going to happen in your life and its going to happen swiftly upon you. Thank God, because your mouths and your attitudes need to come to an end and you’re going to find out that God is not playing games. After April 17, I would fear to be in any of your shoes, truly, truly, truly! …what I say after that day carries a lot more weight.”
For a complete transcript of Ron’s most recent sermon visit:
http://weinlandtranscripted.wordpress.com/
March 31st, 2008 at 6:11 am
I wonder how Weinland would respond to this?
The following is a direct quote taken from the 7 Feb 08 page of his website. QUOTE: “We are now feverishly trying to simply plan for the burst of activity that is coming our way over the next couple of months. We are there! As it was mentioned in this past Sabbath’s sermon, the final countdown has begun, as the 1335 days before the actual day Jesus Christ returns began on February 2, 2008.”
I wonder if there has been a huge “burst” of activity? Must be kind of slow considering that he his very much into keeping his eyes on his critics.
March 31st, 2008 at 6:38 am
Ironwolf. I am amazed at your stamina. This is the biggest list I have ever seen and the comments are passionate, civilized generally, and thoughtful. I think Weinland is unworthy of all this effort but I am compelled by all these writers to jump in.
If I’ve repeated this forgive me I wrote something a couple days ago but couldn’t find it so I think it never made it in.
March 31st, 2008 at 6:45 am
“What I say after that day [April 17] carries a lot more weight…..”
“And for all the critics if by the end of July and for most likely around Pentecost if nothing has clearly caused great destruction and death I will make it very clear that I was a false prophet.”
If nothing happens on April 17th, or during the DoUB however, Weinland’s going to hang on until Pentecost or July before he “will make it very clear that [he] was a false prophet”.
I really wonder which excuse he’s going to use in July? “God reveals things progressively”? “The bride of christ [the church] wasn’t ready”? “God’s time is not our time”? “I haven’t the foggiest idea what’s going to happen”? (He said that, what, fifty million times on Saturday?)
March 31st, 2008 at 6:53 am
WW, I do not know what a B1 is. I wasn’t around in 1975, and I didn’t go through the 70’s in the church. I was a member in the mid 80’s Only after the group quit keeping the Sabbath some of us had no where to go. Some of the older members asked if we could start a Bible study. I was not a pastor or ever ordained in any of the COG’s. The congregation asked that I be ordained as their pastor in 2001. That is my history. I have laid no blame or guilt on anyone. If you feel guilty then it is on you. I believe what I believe and you are welcome to believe what you believe. I have laid no blame on anyone here. I have also tried to answer honestly the questions posed to me. I do not understand the questions about 1975. If I did I would answer them. I would like to make this statement for the record. The things that I teach are things I believe are provable from the bible and history. I have not attacked anyone here. I also have only stated things that “I” believe. I have not tried to proselytize or do any such thing. The only reason I posted here in the first place was to show that people still in COG’s are also concerned about RW, DP, and anyone else that sets dates, screws people out of their money or otherwise causes pain. Good luck and God Bless
March 31st, 2008 at 6:56 am
WW & Weinlandtranscripted - I was attending to a family member recovery from surgery over the weekend and didn’t get a chance to listen to RW’s service live. Are you telling me that he devoted the larger portion of his sermon talking about his critics?
March 31st, 2008 at 6:56 am
I’m just wondering what Rotten Ron and Johnny Redneck think they are going to accomplish by going to Jerusalem
March 31st, 2008 at 6:58 am
Weinland mentioned near the beginning of the 3-29-08 sermon that “many are starting to murmur” [with regards to the expensive locations being chosen for the services and the holy days] and “w” who posted here yesterday hinted that some members have Weinland on a deadline of their own (either three weeks or five weeks depending). Weinland has set his own “deadline” by “Pentecost or July” if he even returns from “Jerusalem”.
Really this whole sermon, listening again, was pure damage control (especially since it pre-empted the Mystery of God part 6). Could this be a sign the church is starting to unravel from within?
March 31st, 2008 at 7:06 am
He also said for the next couple of weeks that he was going to be preaching about Passover, Pentecost, and Unleavened Bread. I’m sure he’ll dive back off into prophecy and all of this since he can’t ever really stay on track when he speaks.
March 31st, 2008 at 7:06 am
He is in big trouble if he is into damage control already. As the ‘true end time prophet’ he should be too busy keeping up with the magnitude of all the ‘events’ happening and his ever increasing fame around the world. (That makes me want to puke to even write). If he is spending this much time talking about critics in a sermon there are things unraveling from within. No doubt. I bet that Elder’s training meeting was a lot of fun!
March 31st, 2008 at 7:16 am
Weinland is basically a small man who wants to be important. I’m sure he’s extremely excited that they are getting new members all the time, but the few that join every week really don’t amount to much. And this will all be very short lived for him. Its really pretty sad that they’ve spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on books and internet advertising and he’s not getting the recognition hoped for. I’m sure some of the new members are really sincere, but I’m sure there are an equal amount of people that are just afraid to ignore something that seems so captivating. They don’t want to miss out on an opportunity to be involved in something so important. They know nothing of that churches history and are probably as confused as they can be when he talks about other splinters, HWA, etc.
March 31st, 2008 at 7:22 am
Some of the folks (as in the case with my family) were too young to go through the first go round of 1975 in prophecy that didn’t happen. RW gave what they considered a plausible reason the WCG blew up. That was what sucked my family members in. It has been downhill from there. They are more ingrained in his culture and separating themselves more from family that 5 years ago they wouldn’t think about missing. As in not being here when family is in hospital recovering from surgery. It is very sad what RW is doing - although he rails against his critics - he is the one who walks on thin ice.