Happy April Fool’s Day, folks! Although the timing of his big prank is a little off, my favorite April Fool Ron Weinland says there are only 16 days to go before… well apparently he hasn’t the foggiest idea! Heh, that’s a good one Ron; you’re such a kidder.
Part 1 Basic info and links.
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5 FAQ
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10
Part 11
More than 45,000 people infected; at least 67 have died of dengue fever in Brazil…something else that can be seen as a thunder (or not depending on which side of the RW/end-time fence you live on)
If anything significant does happen, who to say that RW and his crew aren’t involved in some way or directly causing it…. I mean like a bombing , assassination of the pope, or something that hits world wide news.
The problem with his prediction is that he doesn’t pronounce WHAT will happen on the 17th or during the seven weeks. So ANYTHING that does happen could be construed as a fulfillment of his prophecy…
shoot the arrow then call the target after it’s been hit. Well, he’s already shot the arrow, now everyone is looking for the target.
This prophecy is as vague as your daily horoscopes.
Dangerous game we are playing here….
The only thing that would be concrete, would be something on a worldwide scale that NOBODY could deny…
I think the smartest thing for anyone of us, is to step back and watch, paying careful attention to how we react.
Because the moment we let ourselves get caught up in all these theories and predictions we will lose clarity, and become shortsighted.
Then we will fall into the trap of what Ironwolf sited on (page 1 of this topic) as
confirmation bias:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
M
waytenceewatch: There has ALWAYS been plagues in 3rd world countries, earthquakes in various places, floods in Indonesia….come on the thunders were supposed to ‘mainly’ shake the United States and Canada. How is 45,000 people dying of denge fever in Brazil (although sad) a rumbling thunder in America?????
Anybody that watches the stock market, financial market and commodity trading could have told you that gas prices were going to be on the upswing and will once again go down when demand lowers and supply increases. Supply and demand folks…not a thunder….we are a capitalist society with ups and downs – normal cycles of expansion and contraction happen…not a thunder
MoMo
Armstrong was never a JW. Armstrong came out of the Church of God – Seventh Day. However, the JW group and the CoG-7 (specifically G. G. Rupert) did get some of their prophetic source material from the same place.
Weinlandwatch,
Even if Ron Weinland calls fire down from the sky on the 17th, I will not believe him. Why?
I know his fruits too well to believe he is a man of God.
Assume for a moment for the sake of hypothetical arguments that something will happen on the 17th. Well, the Bible predicts false prophets, as Todaysfate has pointed out, and it says they will be numerous and some will be supremely convincing. The Bible says those who don’t love the truth will believe these false signs. What is the Bible’s definition of truth? Jesus says God’s word is truth. And that word is love.
I am not the only one who understands that RW lacks love. And that is the main key to look for – not signs. The difference between RW and, say Elisha, is that RW habitually lacks love. Elisha did what I understand to be a terrible thing that the Bible records but does not say it condones. (Prophets of God need not be absolutely perfect.) But, then again, Elisha got his – as he is the only prophet I am aware of to die of a wasting disease. Perhaps Elisha could lack love for a time, but repent. David wasn’t perfect, but he was continually repentant. RW lacks love – period – and he is unrepentant. I will follow no man who lacks fruits of the Spirit.
If possible I would like to clarify for many what the COG’s teach, I do not believe or teach everything I am listing here, but for information only. They teach a hierarchical government from God down, naturally putting themselves in position between the members and God. They teach three tithes, the first is to go to them, the second is for you to use during festivals, the third is to be used for an assistance fund for the poor and homeless. They teach offerings at each of the seven Holy Days. If a person wishes to give a freewill offering above this it is up to the individual. They teach various versions of going to a place of safety to escape the tribulation that is to come on the world. They teach that God is calling many millions of people in this age, but few will answer so are technically not responsible in this age. They teach resurrection in their order. The first resurrection is when the people who answer the call in this age are resurrected. the second is for all people throughout history who haven’t answered the call or never heard the call this is the 100 year period at the end of the 1000 years. The third resurrection is for the great white throne judgment. This is for those who answered the call and left, ie: the cares of this world, or rejected the rule of God during the 100 year period. I submit this for information purposes and to clear up some misconceptions. There is more that they teach but these seem to be the major misconceptions. If anyone needs more information I can be emailed at fporter@sdcog.org. Ironman I hope I haven’t overstepped my ground here.
“The process of all that will occur, with the sounding of the First Trumpet, will begin on April 17th and continue to increase in destructive power (consequences) for the following seven weeks.”
Goalpost just moved again… That’s it. I don’t need to wait ’till April 17th, I’ve seen and heard enough from this crack-pot.
Todaysfate:
1. There are no “Illuminati” or reptililian shape-shifting aliens plotting your demise
2. Any current global warming is not man-made (see the warming of all inner planets…cyclical solar activity)–Al Gore is an idiot
3. The sky is not falling, chicken little…we will be ok
–pluggedin out!
Pastor
Your info is correct.
I would like to point out that not ALL of the COG’s teach that exactly anymore. For example, many have debated ‘the place of safety’ and the third resurrection. But in general, you’re spot on.
Todaysfate Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Jack …
Do you believe in the Rapture?
No Sir, I sure Dont, However, I try to have my soul in the best shape as possible at all times….I beleive that the Catholic Church is the one true chuch (PLEASE DONT RESPOND TO THIS), However, I am a grounded individual so, IN THE END, if im WRONG, i will say to God, ‘DEAR GOD, IM SORRY, FORGIVE ME, CAN YOU LET ME IN” (I hope Iron would do the same) ..if he says NO, you should have known RW was correct by all the miracles he SAID he was going to perfom but DIDNT!!!”, then you know what, it wont matter to me cause we’d ALL FKED at that point as NO ONE would have beleived GOD was nuts!!!
April 17th seems to be some sort of last-ditch-effort diversionary tactic.
He will be able to show some sort of physical evidence via revealing the 2nd witness (show & tell)…this will cause a mild stir and he will be busy answering questions…about where, what, who this witness is about. And of course play on it sidestepping the question of what actually did happen in April. Which will be filled up with Pope’s speech ‘interpretations.’ Unfortunately these 2 ‘physical proofs’ will be more then enough for the hard-core congregation.
Insert 25cents to continue?
Sorry I’m all out of quarters.
Funny how everything is “spiritual” except the Two Witnesses, isn’t it?
IF on the 18th RW says “This is exactly what will happen, this is exactly when, and here are some fireballs from the sky as a down payment…” THEN I will be surprised, ELSE yawn.
As Emperor Palpetine from Pink 5 would say, “Foreseen it! Foreseen it! Foreseen it!”
don’t forget the COG believe what sets them apart from the “rest” of the world is their SABBATH keeping.
If you DON’T keep the Sabbath… YOU are NOT God’s people. The HOLY SPIRIT is given to ONLY those who KEEP the Sabbath.
This of course is NOT scriptural
You Sunday keeping people… can pray all you like. God does not hear you.
This is the teachings of the splinter groups…
This is why I asked Pastor if he teaches the Sabbath as a command. …
He didn’t answer…
He says these things about proof: “…why should they?…why should anyone believe this?” (not exact quote but close enough)
So according to his OWN definition what was his reason to get mad at his critics????…when God will provide the physical PROOF anyways!
…to be confirmed on April the 17th. Although I’m not sure…he likes to
contradict himself all the time.
Firestorm: I wish it would be a last-ditch-effort tactic – Oh how I wish it were so. It is only the beginning of the non-sense from this guy. Just wait…he will play this out as long as possible….most normal people will lose interest and move on (as I intend to do) but his mesmerized followers will continue to hang on and on and on… it just makes me ill and sad.
yes, if history is any indication…
look at “pastor” on this blog for instance….
HE still is following HWA teachings afterall
I would also like to point out that those “free-will offerings” are usually enforced (or at least they used to be enforced) with a fire-and-brimstone rendition of Acts 5, usually in the form a sermon titled “the wages of sin is death”.
As for “John Greenberg”, the one thing everyone failed to notice was that he is NOT a member of Weinland’s church (he even said so go back and check) so therefore I’m not going to bother debating with him; most of the “followers” of Weinland on this board as of late, have not been actual baptized members of the church (likely as a result of Weinland’s diatribes on the 15th and 22nd March with regards to members staying off of blogs where the critics are).
“w” I thank you for your “inside input”, it seems credible, and is a very important window into what is actually going on inside the church, and confirms what I have been saying all along: As the goalpost changes, “converted” members of the church go right along with it.
Banncam, nsj, Marie, my thoughts are with you and your families. I know it doesn’t make you feel any better, but it may be a good thing that they will stick with “the church” beyond July; the elders are now “in charge” and if Rotten Ron isn’t on the no-fly list to the Middle East already, he’s likely to get carted away for Jerusalem Syndrome while he’s over there, if he’s not careful.
Passover Service instructions have now been posted on the church’s web site. They are urging members to have a backup copy of last year’s Passover service on a CD or a computer. “The basic service remains the same from year to year.”
This suggests that nothing untoward is planned for the Passover service (it also suggests Weinland might not be around to give it). Mentions of Atonement and FoT (combined with did I read somewhere the church’s feast reservations hadn’t been cancelled?), suggests that the church membership may be alive and well after the 17th. At least that is my hope.
Latest post on the blog has come to the same conclusion we all reached on Saturday: The goalpost has indeed moved again.
The thought that Weinland might be going to Jerusalem in a “last-ditch” effort to prove himself (if he really is drinking his own Kool-Aid) is sobering, and unpleasant; even if he doesn’t take the other members of the church with him, I have no desire to see harm come to Weinland himself, or to his wife, as a result of his delusional beliefs.
I wonder if Johnny Harrell is drinking the Kool-Aid? If he doesn’t believe Weinland and wife are the two witnesses, he may be able to prevent anything untoward from happening. If the Harrels are as brainwashed as all the rest however, there’s no telling what’s going to happen to “god’s end-time prophet”, on April 17th.
Maybe that’s why Weinland gave himself the “day after Pentecost” date? Life insurance from god to make sure he makes it back from the Middle East in one piece?
Banncam, This is why I asked Pastor if he teaches the Sabbath as a command. …
He didn’t answer…
Must have missed that post, sorry, Yes I do. I teach that commandment keeping is necessary. As did Jesus. Mt 19:17
Just for the record. I do not teach that you should give tithes to the church. That is a false teaching perpetuated by all almost churches, greedy suckers that they are.
Johnno,
Click here to see my answer to Katie on this very question.
Fred,
Nope, that was good and relevant information, and corroborated by my own experience as a youth in and later member of WCG.
Sabbath as a commandment…
Yes. Splinter of COG
Banncam, I wonder if you would call the seventh day adventist a splinter COG, or the seventh day Baptist a spliter of a COG? Bot h teach commandment keeping.
kurt said:
“This (Greenberg) sounds like a bait and switch.”
Kurt, if you haven’t read the Bible, there’s nothing I can do for you. It’s all there in Revelation. After the second resurrection, judgment commences, with those names not written in the book of life being cast into the Lake of Fire.
There’s no bait. There’s no switch. I’m not affiliated with Ronald Weinland. I’m just someone who reads the Bible and believes it. I’ve heard nothing but biblically sound doctrine from Mr. Weinland. If anyone on here actually believed or read the Bible, they’d agree with me.
renton said:
“no self-proclaimed “prophet” should go uncriticized unless there is truly no grounds for criticism: in Ron’s case this just isn’t so.”
There’s no valid biblical criticism on this blog; be serious. This place is a haven for unbelievers and atheists who haven’t cracked open their Bible in years. I haven’t heard one single valid refutation of the biblical doctrine he preaches.
People – stop pretending you’re unbiased. Go back and read your 12 pages of comments. Stop innocently calling yourselves “skeptics” or “critics”. At least have the balls to come out and say you 100% don’t believe this guy and stick to it.
Ironwolf said:
“you are ignorant.”
Because some guy I never heard of had the same opinion as me, I’m ignorant? Whether 1 person or 1000 people shared the same argument, it doesn’t invalidate the argument. In fact, I still haven’t heard you address the actual argument.
If you were open to honest debate, that would be fine, Ironwolf. Note that I haven’t insulted you. I have simply shared my opinion on your blog, which I thought was a place of honest intellectual discourse. If you disagree, at least disagree with the opinion, instead of simply attacking me. As the administrator of this blog, people are looking to you to set the bar.
Richard_Saunders said:
John Greenberg,
I have lengthy experience with Mr. Weinland. That is why I have the opinion I do about his legitimacy. Should you eventually come to think as I do, God bless and protect you…”
Thank you for your calm and reasoned reply, Mr. Saunders. I would be interested to hear more in detail about your experiences with Mr. Weinland. As I have stated before, I am not a follower of Mr. Weinland or his church. I do believe the book of Revelation, which states two endtime witnesses will emerge on the world scene. Could Mr. Weinland be one of those witnesses? It’s possible. I have listened to the man speak and read his works, and have found them to be biblically compatible for the most part. What I don’t understand is some people’s willigness and eagerness to condemn the man prematurely; perhaps they have had bad experiences in the past – I don’t know. However, they cannot allow that to cloud their judgment and reflexively stereotype every emerging personality on the scene as a “false prophet”. The Bible says the fruits determine whether someone is sent of God or not.
As for me, I am very careful who I proclaim a false prophet or not. If somebody is truly sent of God, I am not going to risk incurring his wrath by declaring his messenger full of lies. I am simply going to calmly wait and see. I have commented on his doctrines. I cannot comment on his predictions, because I simply do not know. I wish others would be as cautious, before making crude jokes and simply assuming the worst. I find the environment here to be rather unattractive, with putdowns, mocking and jeering the norm, so I will not tarry here long.
Marie said:
“There is a difference between denying a human being is God’s prophet and denying God..”
You are the one that declared him a false prophet. I have simply said that if you are wrong, you will have to live with the consequences. Unless you do not concede that you could be wrong, in which case discussion would be useless. I have conceded that I could be wrong; however, I lose nothing if that is the case and gain everything if I’m right. The inverse is true for you. If that is fine with you, I am saddened, but cannot do anything about it.
__________________________________________________________
I posted to give an alternate opinion than the many doubting ones I have seen here, and I have done that. I cannot spend my life on this blog pretending to care whether or not I convince anyone here. Frankly, I wonder why those who don’t even believe him spend so much of their time here. We all have our own beliefs – some here shout a little louder than others. I have shared my opinion; you have shared yours. Only time can tell now.
If Ronald Weinland truly is God’s endtime witness, then God has sent his message. It is up to every man to believe for himself and make a choice. If they were serious at all about it, they would crack open their dusty Bibles and study long and hard. I have no desire or need to convince people of my belief; I’ll leave that up to God. Because when you really think about it, it comes down to the free will that we’ve been given and what we plan on doing with it.
- John G
no, but you are a splinter of WCG
John said, “perhaps they have had bad experiences in the past – I don’t know”
Yeah! YOU don’t know…but if you choose to follow him… YOU WILL
It seems that the only reason the ‘April’ date is mentioned is to get the critics off the back of his church and the same with all hardcore non-believers. (the play book has changed) In this way he can strengthen his reclusivity over his own church minus a few disgruntled about-to-quit members. His accounting books by now can take a hits anyways…
Very good strategies, very good plays…all for his personal benefit no doubt.
I have been reading these posts (and the archives) for a while now.
I was a member of WCG from 1988-1995 – About a year ago I was contacted by a “friend” from those church days – we went for lunch – she gave me a copy of 2008 GFW – After a period of resisting, the book “hooked” into me – I contacted the RW website, began keeping the Sabbath, tithing and listening to sermons – The best part for me was a renewal of God-conciousness – the worst part was my concern about family members, who didn’t “see” it.
There have been an increasing number of “red flags” – here are a few:
1. In many of RW’s sermons, he is actually yelling and speaking in an abusive manner to the listeners – repeating things over & over – getting more & more worked up about them – My insides were feeling sick of hearing the words “sick, sick, sick” over & over again.
2. A few weeks ago – RW lost his voice and was unable to give the Sabbath sermon – this is the man who calls himself “God’s spokesperson of the two witnesses” – the man who “God has chosen to spiritually feed us Sabbath to Sabbath” – very strange that he loses his voice.
3. RW’s book describes the “Seven Thunders” occurring during the period of the Sixth Seal – PG 86 “The timing for the Seven Thunders is during the period of the Sixth Seal.” Those thunders are described in the book as physical events (not spiritual ones) – they have not taken place as described in the book – ( he writes over & over throughout the book that the exact fulfillment of what he has written will verify that he is the chosen spokesmen).
4. I became aware of the “pay prior to Baptism policy” – That was a real shocker for me.
There is a positive side to all of this – when I said to my husband last night about being “duped again” – he said ” well, you are human” and we had a good laugh. I may still be a bit naive – perhaps now a little less so.
My thoughts, right now, are about the other members of the church I have met – I wonder if they are “seeing” these inconsistencies and falsehoods – some might be afraid to allow themselves to think or speak these things – (with the dogmatism of unity RW puts forth). This post is for any of them who might be reading. You are not alone.
John said: “It is up to every man to believe for himself and make a choice.”
Many on this post, including myself, HAVE chosen to believe the bible and Christ….
THE end time witness will be calling people to FOLLOW CHRIST… NOT himself! RW is NOT calling people to follow Christ. HE is calling people to follow HIM and the Sabbath. BIG Difference.
YOU should fit in NICELY with RW and his group (any other splinter for that matter). They assume people don’t know Christ, Don’t know God, Don’t read the bible, can’t prove anything by scripture, live like the “world”…
Yes, you will fit in nicely with them John
Duped!
YOU are SO right! I’m so glad you recognized it when you did.
Can ANY REASONABLE person believe GOD will ALLOW HIS witness to lose his voice???? Give me a break!?!
“duhh oh yeah, i want to get that message out…but my guy just lost his voice…what am I gonna do????”
NO WAY!
In order to write a prophetic book, God MUST have revealed the information to the author before he wrote it. He states on page 9, “The answer is not anything that is stated or written because words by themselves do not prove credibility and truth. That which man has written about God does not prove it is true. Only God Himself can prove what is true by bringing to pass exactly what He has said.”
I take this to mean that Only God himself can prove the authority or anointing of the person professing to be one of the 2 final witnesses or prophet by bringing to pass exactly what the witness or prophet proclaims or predicts.
On page 17 of his book he states, “It is now with boldness, confidence and great clarity that I give to you what God has given to me. I am to announce through God’s direct revelation, that I am one of the two witnesses”
By his own words, this cannot be proven by words either written or spoken. They must be proven by God’s own work in accomplishing what the witness proclaims.
UHHH… WHERE’s THE BEEF!?!
He said ALL kinds of things in this book…. according to RW’s OWN words….God is NOT making them happen as he supposedly revealed them in 2006!
It’s crazy!
More statements…from the prophetic book…
REMEMBER this stuff was “a direct revelation from God” to HIS end time prophet!
On page 83 of RW’s book, he is discussing the transition between the Sixth seal and the Seventh seal. He states, “The transition of both phases is coordinated to lead into the opening of the Seventh Seal.”
He also says this, and this is an important detail, “The physical phase of transition that is occurring during this present Sixth seal is the period when prophetic end-time events escalate, on a physical plane, with increasing destructive power that is best depicted as a pregnant woman in labor pains. But there is more to this phase of transition that will lead to the opening of the Seventh seal and the destruction that will come at the blowing of the first four trumpets.”
Okay, (cricket sounds)…. the 7th seal openend…. (cricket sounds)
WHERE is the increasing destructive power…. It should have been here by the opening of the 7th seal…
Hello… echo echo echo
Time to move on, folks. Conversion continues over here.