Ron Weinland: Discussion Part 13
“I would not want to be in your shoes - come April 17.”
— Ronald Weinland addressing his critics in a recent sermon.
— Ronald Weinland addressing his critics in a recent sermon.
Wow, that’s only 14 days off. Brings back childhood memories, I tell ya. Oh! Here’s one now…
From 1975 in Prophecy, published in 1956 by Herbert W. Armstrong.
Illustration by Basil Wolverton.
Part 1 Basic info and links.
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5 FAQ
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10
Part 11
Part 12
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:19 am
banncam would you define splinter? If you were ever in WCG or any other COG group and you believe in God then aren’t you technically a splinter?
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:22 am
No, splinters believe the HOLY DAYS picture God’s plan
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:23 am
This is HWA teaching that is NOT provable by scripture.
(unless you add to them I suppose)
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:24 am
Yeah, I remember that picture Ironwolf
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:27 am
John Greenberg,
Because you come here and parade your lack of education like a frickin’ badge of honor. Apparently you can’t even find the link about Pascal’s Wager that I provided with which to educate yourself. Because you are not merely ignorant, but willfully ignorant.
Besides, this is not a forum to debate Pascal’s Wager. You might try the Is Belief in a God Reasonable? thread. That is, assuming you take a little time to educate yourself first.
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:33 am
Turn sound up…
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/port_lofi.cfm?sound_iid=64279
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:36 am
Yup! That’s the sound I hear!
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:41 am
From the Edge Radio Transcript:
Dan: What differentiates you from other prophets?
Ron: April 2008
Since anybody can make this claim.
Lets hold God’s true end time witness to his ‘word.’
No skipping ahead please.
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:47 am
Hmmm. Does “Duped” change the bell curve on “w”’s “informal poll of 112 members”? I wonder.
On reflection, “w”’s “informal poll” may just be more church-sponsored propaganda. Trying to keep the sheep placid as best you can “w”??
Anyone want to take bets on “w”’s actual identity? Given that church members are banned from the blogs and chat rooms, and that he has inside information on the elder’s meeting in Cincinnati on Saturday, he has to be an elder at the very least. Well, that, and the ability to question 112 members of the church.
Clearly “w” is not a lay-member of the organization. One wonders if the self-implosion of the church can be far behind, if there is already mutiny in the ranks?
April 3rd, 2008 at 10:27 am
Ironwolf-enstein,
Just out of curiosity, why are you always on about Pascal’s Wager? It seems to be a fine means of decision making. Then again, I’m not using to prove there’s a God. Atheist’s Wager is probably a better fit for you. What’s your opinion about that wager?
April 3rd, 2008 at 10:29 am
weinlandwatch,
A fine bit of deductive reasoning. I say the gauntlet has been laid down. Care to retort, “W”? … if that is your real alphabetical notation!
April 3rd, 2008 at 10:47 am
Bencamm Said:
“You Sunday keeping people? can pray all you like. God does not hear you.
This is the teachings of the splinter groups?
Do you notice how alot of mainstream “Christian” churches have services on Saturday as well as Sunday? Is this a “just in case” measure?
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:03 am
BANNCAM If this is the biggest mistake that I make in my life then Praise the Lord, for surely doing the same things tha tJesus did won’t condemn me.
I just wish people like RW would hush, they give the rest of us nuts a bad name.
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:11 am
Re: Fred Porter’s question about the SDAs/Baptist Adventists:
It is all fruit from the same poisoned tree, Porter, namely the Church of God 7th Day. This is the church that Armstrong splintered from in 1933.
Google “Millerite” or “1844 The Great Disappointment”, and you will be enlightened as to where HWA really came from, with a dash of Mormon and Quaker theologies thrown in to add a little “spice” to the mixture.
It is all fruit from the same poisoned tree. Religion is the root of all evil in this world, in my opinion.
Spirituality, that’s different, and in individual cases, not always as harmful. But I wouldn’t be welcome on the “Is Belief in God Reasonable” thread because I’m an agnostic panentheist, and such discussion is off-topic here.
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:14 am
Richard Saunders,
Why am I “on about it?” Because others keep bringing it up like it’s something new that I should consider, when in fact it’s old as the hills and dry as a molted snake skin. Basically, it has serious, serious flaws. But as apparently you didn’t hear me say before, I’ll say it again: I’m not going to debate it here— it’s off-topic.
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:27 am
Ironwolf 3D,
I’m not attempting to debate. Nor requesting one. Just wondered what your opinion was about the other wager. Forget I asked.
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:42 am
SORRY Weinland Watch, DIDN’T MEAN TO BRING IN PERSONAL BELIEFS HERE!!! However I believe that is mostly what is presented here. I think most people here believe RW is only self serving, but some people are on a wait and see mode like I am.
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 am
oh! by the way RW wouldn’t like our group either. we sing modern contempory praise and worship songs and none of our people are dumb enough to send him any money.
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 am
Marie,
Anyone that watches huh? What if I didn’t watch it? Am I supposed to take someone elses word for it? Can you PROVE to me that that the price of GAS is in fact going to go down?
Yes … I expect it to … based on my experience … I think you could say the same thing?
Do you and I have experience in witnessing for God? Can we say we know what being a “prophet” of the end times is like? How it goes?
Do you think Ron W can say that? Could Jesus? I don’t know … according to the Bible he was a little surprised himself when he found out what is mission was. Thats kind of strange considering that he um .. IS GOD.
So my conclusion… either athiests are right…. or … There is something about how God operates himself that we do not understand … nor should we try to figure it out.
What I feel I am capable of figuring out is what is happening arround us. Your point is correct … when things completely stop happening the way we expect them to … I mean completely … THEN will you know something is up?
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 am
Pluggedin says:
Can’t you see sarcasm when it’s in front of you?
I’m speechless … is that why you have been taking the earths temperature for 40 years and can show documented proof that it has NOT been getting hotter over the last 20 years at a faster pace than it has during the last 20,000? And faster over the last 2 years than those last 20?
How on Gods green earth can you make such a claim … when there are people on this earth who are very plainly NOT OK? Can you provide absolute proof that there are more people “OK” today then there were yesterday? Or even that this number is staying the same? Who are YOU to define what “OK” is? … Hmmm… Who am I to define what “not ok” is? Right? I don’t think I do …. I’m just looking.
What “science” is studying whether or not “things” are OK? . Where is the PROOF of what YOU are saying?
If you can show this to me … then I would say YOU are the prophet.
Or is this just something we are supposed to assume on “FAITH” … As IronWolf will be glad to point out to you … “FAITH” is a flawed concept.
But I don’t think it is. WHY? Because the source of faith (The Bible) says … that things are going to GET WORSE. It also says that the majority of people will be BLIND to it. … Hmmmm… and THAT is what this little segment of collective minds from around the world seems to be proving to me. What about you?
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:55 am
Fred,
You mean you don’t sing Dwight Armstrong hymns? What kind of splinter are you?
I am kidding of course. I hope we can agree to disagree. But the CoG7 is where Armstrong got his start. Most Church of God congregations either whitewash that fact, or ignore it altogether. I hope yours does not.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
WW I know the background. I have been around the block a couple of times myself. No we don’t sing the funeral dirges. We do sing hymn’s mostly more modern ones, some classics, I especially like the spirit song. you would probably enjoy our service even if you didn’t believe in God.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Pastor said, “BANNCAM If this is the biggest mistake that I make in my life then Praise the Lord, for surely doing the same things tha tJesus did won’t condemn me.”
Scripture says there is no condemnation in Christ.
If you are in Christ, you are not Condemned. I am also in Christ, therefore we are even.
Problem is… the splinters do not teach I am in Christ. Splinter groups claim you cannot BE in Christ and worship on Sunday.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:10 pm
TF, since your post was short, I read it.
YES the splinter groups teach you cannot be in the Body of Christ unless you keep the Sabbath on SATURDAY. They do not believe your prayers are heard, nor answered.
The churches who have services on SAT and Sun DO NOT offer either day as a commanded assembly. Rather, they offer both days to fit schedules of those who would want to come together to worship. The SAT. service is NOT a “JUST IN CASE” worship service. IT is held for the purpose of having doors open to those who would WANT to come together in praise for God.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Not going to go there with you Banncam, everyone has to make their choices. Judge not and you will not be judged. That was the title for most of my sermons for 5 years after WCG.
That’s why I’m not judging RW, I’m just scared he is going to do something more stupid than he’s done already.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:17 pm
All who are on this blog take notice….
WW is CORRECT when he shows the origins of WCG/HWA teachings. IT is ALL through the splinters including “Pastor’s”
HWA had a “few” of his own twists on things, but most of what he taught, he learned from other groups.
Isn’t there a scripture that says, “There is nothing new under the sun”???
OH YEAH! Ecclesiastes 1:9
THERE REALLY IS NOTHING NEW you know..
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Passover Service Instructions highlights:
Buy your own wine.
Download last year’s Passover service if you are in Europe or even if you’re not, in order to “be fully prepared”.
The Passover service this year will be held in Jerusalem and posted on the site “immediately afterward” as a complete file.
Solemn evening, solemn ceremony, only baptized members (classic WCG)
This year’s service is Friday evening, the 18th of April 2008, after sunset.
Footwashing part of the service not mandatory if you are by yourself. (LOL)
Re-enact the last supper and ponder the last meal of the christ figure in the canonical christian new testament scriptures (classic WCG)
Sing In Thy Loving Kindness Lord or “if you don’t know the words just listen to the words of the song and ponder their meaning”
Well, that rules out a suicide pact…at least for those keeping Passover by themselves, or in living room congregations.
The larger groups, run by the elders are an unknown factor at this point, and anything could happen, at those larger Passover services.
Anyone know if any of the elders are more fanatical than Weinland?
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:18 pm
I’m not judgings RW’s salvation.
Just making a judgement that his prophecies are NOT unfolding has he has proclaimed. Therefore he is FALSE
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Pastor Porter - Not trying to pick on you - AT ALL. I have very good friends and FAMILY that are sabbath keepers. That is great and fine if you want to do that - it is your tradition and fine to do. However, I would caution using it as a measuring tool of who ‘true christians’ with ‘God’s Holy Spirit’ are. That is patently false and not biblical. Nor is the plan of God as pictured by the Holy Days as taught by Herbert Armstong.
None of the CoG splinters keep all the days that Jesus did. John 10:22
indicates Jesus was at the temple during “The Feast of Dedication”. Do you keep the “Feast of Dedication”? Do you set your passover table with bitter herbs and a freshly killed passover lamb? Probably not. These were things that Jesus did that most 7th day sabbatarians do not do as part of their tradition.
Weinland picks and chooses from the OT & NT what he wants to follow. Fine. Don’t judge the rest of the world based on his ideas and assumptions. Unlike John Greenberg said in his post earlier - some of us here DO study the Bible and have come to differing conclusions on what we must do to ‘follow Jesus’.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:20 pm
OK… First timer hear, but I’ve been reading since thread 1.
I haven’t seen any comments on the picture from HWA’s 1975 book that is portrayed at the head of this thread.
Is that a wedge shapped UFO in the sky?
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:20 pm
I think my family will be fine at passover.
There are like 9 people in their congregation…..
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Hey ArkieDog,
I have those old books in a box in the garage…. I don’t know if that is a UFO or not…
But it brought a chuckle to me when you asked.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Just wondering if that is one of HWA’s or Ron’s demon ships…
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:31 pm
That’s what I said Marie. Everyone makes their choices. I’m not judging anyone, not my job. no one should judge anyone else, not their job either. Everyone seems to put forth their ideas and if someone’s idea doesn’t fit that idea or modern Christianity then they are automatically condemned to crap. Rw is probably nuts adn has drawn in “many” people especially people who are just starting to study the Bible. one of our members who moved to southern Calif. had started a Bible study on Friday night adn there were about fifteen young people coming until two of them found weinland’s book and all but two have left and joined him. This is scary.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:31 pm
We always had lamb for supper on Passover………I think that was a personal family tradition tho’………and oh yeah my family really likes lamb. That helps.
With regards to Passover, bear in mind that anything could happen, in the Passover service that gets uploaded from Jerusalem. Members are instructed to use last year’s Passover service “just in case” or if they are in Europe (different time-zone). So likely it will be the same, as the instructions state, for the home churches or small congregations.
Now, for the larger congregations, there’s no telling whether or not the newly-fledged elders are going to “stick to the script”. That’s if anyone can get hold of Weinland after the 14th April in the first place.
The Weinlands and the Harrells will be keeping Passover, the Saturday sabbath of the 19th (when the big announcement that the 2Wit is the little woman goes down) and the first day of unleavened bread, Sunday the 20th, in Jerusalem.
Either they’re going to be keeping it by themselves (or with whichever elder(s) and family are travelling with them), or those “sermons” have already been recorded, and will just be uploaded at the appropriate times (usually about two hours before the time listed on the website).
I note that “w” seems to have disappeared back into the woodwork from whence he came. Sorry “w” I didn’t mean to scare you off.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:33 pm
RW…is completely FALSE…and we will all see that on the 17…. so I will see you all back here on the 18th…and if not, and I’m wrong and RW is right..my bad..
But being from Vegas I’m gonna bet on this one… see you all on the 18th!
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:36 pm
In RW view… the Holy Days picture God’s plan. Understanding this “plan” through the Holy Days is how COG & Splinters identify themselves as GOD’s people…
Here is a NORMAL picture of the Feast of Tabernacles….
Save 10% of your income (this does NOT include the 10% you mailed to headquarters for your 1st tithe)
Determine your “festival destination” How about sunny Florida! (or Hawaii or Australia)
Make your hotel reservations
Take your $7,000 and LIVE LIKE KINGS for 8 days. Eat all the clean foods in the NICEST restaurants you can stand. Have ALL the fun and enjoyment you can stand and would never normally do. Attend Disney World/Epcot, Go to Sea World, Go scuba diving. Attend church daily with other believers, listen to stirring messages.
REALLY EXPERIENCE the GOOD & pleasurable physical things earth has to offer, knowing it is ONLY a FRACTION of what you will enjoy in God’s Kingdom.
Come home and really feel closer to God than ever and bask in the knowledge that one day you will have ALL the pleasures God has to offer in His Kingdom.
OOOhh it is SOOOO wonderful!!
Problem is, the family sitting next to you in your weekly services didn’t have such a time. The father lost his job and the wife had health issues. They attended the closest Feast site and ate TV dinners the whole time. The kids did get to go fishing every day for fun and walked on trails through the free parks. The pleasure and enjoyment they saw pictured for God’s Kingdom is a VERY different Kingdom.
Anyone that celebrated the FEAST saw this or participated in this VERY scenario. It sickens me.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Pastor Porter: “Judge not and you will not be judged. That was the title for most of my sermons for 5 years after WCG.”
That’s good but circumstances change.
For instance in this case how can we judge somebody when he already pre-judged all those who do not attend his church and basically the entire world as being ‘deceived.’ In his last sermon he has ‘judged’ the critics for not agreeing with what he was doing by threatening them with his own prophecy! (caring and understanding my ass)
The problem here is he DOES NOT ANSWER ANY questions and remains an enigma. So far despite his (best?) efforts he showed NO proof of his legitimacy while there is PLENTY of proof about his own crooked history. ie the shattered lives Armstrong left in his wake.
If somebody declares himself an end time witness then he should act as such. Not like this degenerate fool.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:40 pm
I havent been talking much because, well, my grandpa passes away on easer morning things have been pretty crazy these past weeks. =[
Anyways! I can across something that said that the two witnesses are actually the two Achangels Gabriel and Michael. This idea never crossed my mind before but it makes sense. IF Ron is one of the witnesses he would be Gabriel, I say this because of what ron said about being a spoke person for both the witnesses. Gabriel in the bible does go to people such as Daniel as a spoke person for Michael and the Lord.
So, all im really trying to do here is see the point of view IF ron was actually who he says he is. Futhermore, the second witness…Michael? does not reveal himself intill sometime in april according to Ron.
Oay so if you guys do some reseach on the Archangels you will see that they are Different…Gabriel gives visions and prophecies, and Michael is the war cry and protector of the sons of Adam.
Please elaberate!
P.S. Michael is NOT Jesus, thats just silly. =P hah
-Magisto
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Don’t forget to put in your second and third picks Banncam! How often were THOSE words spoken in your local congregation, when the festival cards were being handed out huh?
My family got “lucky” we ended up living in a prime Feast location for fifteen years. So, we ended up like the second family in your account, Banncam, more years than not. I did get in a couple of Feasts “away” that matched your first account, though. A couple out of almost twenty years of church attendance isn’t bad at all right?
Weinland will definitely be in the wind as of 14th April. Mark my words.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Yeah WW!
Our family traveled A LOT….
Just THIS past 2007 FOT, an uncle & Aunt went to Ireland. They also traveled through MANY European countries while they were there…
They are in one of the splinters NOT RW group.
Anyway, just looking at photo’s and talking… They mentioned that there were a few families that didn’t get to attend any site because they didn’t save their money… They didn’t OBEY God and save their tithe money….
WoooW! This is a major major problem in their group. This is Right up there with not keeping the Sabbath! I of course said, maybe they had financial problems and just couldn’t… well of course their are NO excuses!
The families who struggle financially ALL year long because of no education, no good employment or simply “issues” are shown very little if any mercy at all.
Do you think the Uncle would have given enough money to those in his congregation to at least attend even if it required he STAY home from Ireland? NO WAY!
The FEAST pictures God’s Kingdom, therefore, we MUST CELEBRATE and “Live it up”….
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:54 pm
ArkieDog,
I think that’s just an digital artifact of the scanning process— Wolverton often used fine, woodcut-like parallel lines in his work. When scanned at low resolutions, that can cause moiré patterns to creep in.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
I believe in the Bible it is written that these two end time witnesses have some amazing powers granted to them. Seems like Mr. Weinland professes to be one of these two end time witnesses ( and the spokesman for both - which I don’t recall reading in my Bible and that seems strange ).
Anyway - while I think allot about what he says is for the good - I find it difficult to believe that his self proclamation that he is one of the two end time witnesses. If truly he was - wouldn’t he be able to demonstrate great power? Certainly - the Bible celarly states that these two end time witnesses will have these amazing powers, and be able to torment the earth with plagues and the like as often as they want to - and they will not
be able to be interfered with.
Seems to me that he could get allot more attention by a simple demonstration of this undeniable power. hmmm….
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Benncam,
I believe you are exactly 100% correct here. Those are my beliefs as well. I don’t claim that my own beliefs fall 100% in with yours.. or anyones “label”.
But here is my dilema … Ron W, COG, the splinters, etc … do believe in Christ. They believe he died for their sins and has risen just as you do … just as I do. So … Even though they don’t pray, even though they would say that you and I are not “in Christ” …. would you say they are? Perhaps we know the concept of “gods grace” better than Ron W? Does that mean he isn’t going to heaven?
Still … the topic of end times, particuliarly the book of revalations … deals with what Christ needs to do about those pasky “non-beleivers” … so any talk about it is going to seem harsh and ugly but normal standards.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:05 pm
They believe in Christ as savior. They don’t believe Christ’s death is “ENOUGH” to be saved. You must also Keep the Saturday Sabbath and Holy Days. Christ died for us yes, but YOU also must DO other things… in order to be “saved” although they don’t believe is using the word “saved”. They do not believe anyone is REALLY SAVED. Whomever is “saved” is really unknown. There is NO security in Salvation with RW or COG or splinters. You can do EVERYTHING YOU KNOW to be right AND believe in Christ’s life/resurrection and STILL NOT KNOW if you will “MAKE IT” to God’s Kingdom.
All YOU on this post…. TAKE NOTICE. RW, COG & splinters…. THESE teachings are NOTHING to play around with. You will do better to stay away from them all!
They do not like the word GRACE. They will not speak on it…
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I believe the 2 witnesses will NOT come out of AnY specific religion or church. They will be Christ followers….
They will NOT have a ministry to send money to… they will not ask for money or followers…
The things they proclaim will have World Wide empact… not USA 1st empact… or COG 1st empact
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
That truly is sad Bann cam…. you are right.
But you didn’t answer my question.
Even if they don’t believe Christ’s death is “enough”… is believing in Christ’s death at all actually enough?
Or are we going to condemn them for condemning us?
Heck … there are some Catholics out there who still believe that a divorce is a one way … non-negotiable ticket to hell. Along with abortion and being gay.
I’m glad to see that they have lightened up a little bit in order to keep up with the changing “times” … but have the words in the Bible changed?
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Hey DazedAndConfused,
RW has to be the spokesman for the 2 witnesses because he is a control freak and also because the 2nd witness is probably his wife. Which…women have no voice in his church…therefore his wife won’t speak…
It is all nuts! he is NOT a prophet/witness. He is false.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:20 pm
is believing in Christ’s death at all actually enough?
His LIFE/DEATH/RESURRECTION is enough, if you believe the bible.
John 3:14-16
John 3:36
There are more… Ironwolf does not want us to discuss scriptures here.
JUST KNOW…
The COG, Splinters & RW do not believe these scriptures are enough for salvation.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Benncam … You are right again …. seriously … BUT …
Although perhaps twisted .. Ron W IS a Christ follower. … Did God tell you personally that Ron still will be part of his own church or “Religion” a month from now?
I agree …
I’d say that we are the people that this is “first” impacting. Along with people looking deeper into the end times before learning who Ron W is… and the folkes who heard the Radio interviews. I know I am not COG.
I believe everything will and MUST happen as you describe. … The only difference between me and you here is that I was not burned by any form of COG in the past … and still think that Ron can be “transformed” by God.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Ok TF… You are being dumb again… “Although perhaps twisted .. Ron W IS a Christ follower. … Did God tell you personally that Ron still will be part of his own church or “Religion” a month from now?”
this is why I quit reading your posts
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Now that was a good laugh Banncam!
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:31 pm
JUST KNOW…
The COG, Splinters & RW do not believe these scriptures are enough for salvation.
And what is wrong with that? They are still saved for believing at all. That is what the Bible says. If they think they need to do “more” … more power too them. Maybe they will get “extra” credit.
Sure … they are “strict” … but you know what? Some morals ARE strict. Being strict is not the same thing as currupt. If they are currupt … that is a different matter and I will agree with you wholeheartedly.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Re: The “christian” stance of Weinland’s sect:
Bear in mind, also, that Weinland took the WCG’s binitarianism one step further in 2005, when he began preaching the Humanization of Christ doctrine that is apparently one of his pet theologies.
It goes one step beyond the standard binitarianism of WCG, which said the christ figure existed with god before becoming human, but became human, i.e., became the christ figure, when the old testament god used the power of the holy spirit to plant the seed of the christ child in Mary.
(I think I got that right it’s been a long time since I exited and I never knew we were binitarians when I was in………)
Weinland’s sect is unitarian, i.e., they believe the christ figure did not exist “with god/as god/part of the god family” prior to god giving his only begotten son, AT ALL. As in, the christ figure was completely human and not deified until his resurrection (which was always downplayed because the resurrection is yet-to-come, and not a central part of the theology, the way it is with catholicism). Then the sect becomes polytheistic after “the kingdom come” (Remember: three-quarters of a century and we’re still waiting for that kingdom to come!), and everyone who is a baptized member becomes a member of the god family.
Except not, because only 144,000 becomes old testament overlords, in Weinland’s spin on traditional Armstrongism.
I’m definitely not a -tarian of any stripe now, but I never could wrap my head around what the trinitarians mean by the holy spirit being a person.
Apropos of nothing and perhaps a bit off-topic, I see the verses cited for the holy spirit as a person, and I see “breath”, I see “spirit” I see “force”, but nowhere do I see person. (The masculine gender was apparently added later.)
Then again, I always have had an affinity for that particular Quaker belief that Armstrong subverted so terribly……………
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Whopsy doodle…look what I found!
Revelation 11:6
says that these 2 prophets are ‘men’ NOT man and woman.
And more interestingly…
“BOTH” of them are able to bring every types of plagues down to earth!
And does not say WHATSOEVER that one of the witness will be the spokes(woman) for the other!
Tick Tock! Tick Tock! Need that Proof Ronnie Ol Boy.
I cant make heads or tails out of what he is suggesting…unless he is
*gasp* adding things to the bible when he is not supposed to?
By God! That would warrant a ‘Proof’ wouldn’t you say Watson?
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:34 pm
“this is why I quit reading your posts”
Thats a shame Benn … I think you are right about alot of things .. but the Bible shows clearly where God uses theives, prostitutes, and other unfortunates for his glory.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Note that this:
is from the New International version of the Bible…
Revelation 11:6
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Benncam
Just so you know … a blog, debate, dicussion, whatever consists of …
Point —> counterpoint —> point … etc…
Not.
Point —> “quit reading your posts”
Are you open to defending your ideas rather than just declaring them?
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Firestorm, scroll up to my previous post, it might help you.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Firestorm …
Rev 11:6
… and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.
But not “when” they desire huh?
Are you suggesting that they are going to “desire” to do this often?
Dang … than perhaps that is why when they die we are all suposed to rejoice in the streets.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Todaysfate:
Why would you not think preaching behind a pulpit that you are the ONE and ONLY spokesman from God and ONE of the TWO end time prophets and is not corrupt? This guy is on a trip elevating himself, his church, HWA, and the CoG above everybody else. This is simply NOT true.
“IF” the end time witnesses as described by folks that believe in the ‘end time theories’ from the book of Revelation were from God as described in scripture - there would be NO doubt. The ’signs’ and ‘wonders’ would be spectacular. EVEN if he were a ‘false’ prophet from Satan - as you have opined about in earlier posts - if you believe the ‘Satan’ of the bible with all this incredible power ‘ there would be ’signs’ and ‘wonders’ that would astound a multitude of people.
RW’s prophecies about what was to happen BEFORE the 7th seal have not happened as he has stated. Plain and simple.
Or - if what we see now is what RW considers the ‘thunders’ it’s like taking a whiz off a bridge over the Mississippi…ain’t much of a rise in the river.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Right AGAIN WW!
RW has his own twist on who Jesus was/is.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Todaysfate Says: “Are you suggesting that they are going to “desire” to do this often?”
With the specific mental deficiency Ronald is suffering from
and the threatening nature of his sermons…
the answer to that will be yes…a LOT.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:54 pm
RW will desire to do many mean and ugly things to Catholics first and Jews second.
I arrive at this from his own messages.
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:00 pm
“The spirit may be willing but the flesh is weak.”
Wonder if Witness Weinland got over that chest infection yet??
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Expect this to come suddenly people…
I don’t think that Ron himself isn’t going to get much advance notice.
Its going to be more like … “hey ya’ll … watch this”…. bammm!!!”
Is there any indication at all in the Bible that Mosses knew in advance what was going to happen? No … beforehand … he only knew that something would happen. Did he send a postcard to the pharaoh telling him he was going to come at some point in the future and turn a staff into a snake … turn rivers into blood, etc… etc…
No … because each time a plague came … the pharaoh was given NEW a choice to let it continue or not.
Why is that hard to understand?
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Firestorm,
Pharaoh had a chance to stop his plaques…I don’t think we’ll be given that chance since the end will be inevitable once it starts.
Anyway, You’re confusing me a little - do you beleive in Weinland or not? It seems sometimes that you agree with Bancam/WW and other hard core anti-Weinlands, and other times you seem to support him. Maybe I’m reading your posts all wrong. Just Curious.
Either way (for me), April is the month to watch…at least for Weinland’s predictions - we may be in for something further down the road, but we won’t know. Fun times!
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Oops…the Pharoh comment was directed at TodaysFate’s comments. Sorry.
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Banncam,
Actually, that’s not true— if that were the case, why would I go through the trouble of installing a plug-in that turns scriptural references into links? I don’t want preaching here, and I want to keep the conversation reasonably on-topic.
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Marie,
I don’t think I said anything about not being currupt … I just don’t think it matters to God. He will use who he wants, how he wants, and when he wants. It may be hard for us to believe, but Charles Manson believes in Christ … and if he has asked to be forgiven … he is going to heaven. Does that seem fair? It doesn’t have to. I think that a good sign for you and all of us to know that Ron is the real deal … would be if he simply “stops” being currupt … right before our eyes.
… I guess we will have to simply agree to dissagree on this one.
Its this mentality that continues to drive me insane … if we don’t see reason to cry yet … then I guess God will have to give us a better one.
Thats what revalations is trying to tell us. Are we that spoiled?
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Each one of us makes a personal choice … God was after the pharoah that time … this time he is after all of us… God knows that this will take 3 1/2 years to do it. I already have a hunch … other Christains may take more time… some atheists will take the full amount of time… some will chose to never chose. The end.
It makes sense to me …
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Todaysfate: “Is there any indication at all in the Bible that Mosses knew in advance what was going to happen?”
Well that’s not a fair comparison. Moses did not carry a Bible in his pocket.
Todaysfate: “Are we that spoiled?”
I wish!…
You are describing a world with equality, for lack of a better term a Star Trekish future.
So no we are not spoiled…far…far from it.
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I have several reasons that I too think shows signs of Ron W being “false”.
But … based using what I tried to say about Moses as an example… I don’t think that we have come to the point of no return yet.
I simply cannot subscribe to the two main lines of “proof” people are attempting to provide here …
#1. That the hostory of the COG and everything about it can only mean one thing about Ron W.
#2. That there are no “end times” at all … because nothing is “actually” going wrong with our world that we can’t get through ourselves or havn’t been through before.
I frankly can’t relate to #1 … at all … because I had not experienced it for myself.
And on #2 … well … Thats the key to all of this. Each of us has our own idea what true pain, suffering, and bad news is … I guess thats why its going to have to get “really” bad. Thats unfortunate. But it is what the Bible says needs to happen.
What I can tell you about my own “Church” experience … is that the entire subject is taboo. We just would rather sing .. then go there. Like that will stop it from happenning. I have learned that if pressed on the subject .. ANY cleargy will admit that it is coming … and it wont be pretty … they just dont know when… but they don’t want to make you sacred… for fear you stop coming to church… so they tell you not to “worry”.
As far as the nitpicky things like worshipping on Saturday? … I don’t believe it is a stretch to believe that God might expect us to follow his word … exacty as desribed… we expect our children our employees to do the same.
But I believe that God isn’t bringing the wrath to puniush or convince those already saved that they need to worship on sat. I believe it’s coming to convince those who don’t think there is a God at all .. that there is.
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Banncam you were right about the feast. There were times that we had no money and it was hard. I remember those times. However we figured out that that is not the way it is supposed to be. WE plan enough activities for everyone that everyone is busy most of the time adn it is all paid for either by our church or the festival offerings. We average 7000 in festival offerings and spend 7500 paying for everything. no teen left out no matter their age. We usually have 150-200 at our feast site. That way everyone has a good time and no one is worried about having to pay or be embarrassed. I must be dyslexic when I type “and” it always comes adn.
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:48 pm
What I meant by that is how many “Christians” fall into the trap that they are secure and saved… and as a result .. may never arrive at a feeling of “urgency” needed to sometimes actually stand up and make a change for the better.
I believe this is brought on by Satan. I believe a false sense of security is what he wants us to have while the world goes to crap.
This is why EVE was tempted in the first place … all she knew of God was him infinate love… she probably didn’t think that God would truly “punish” her for something as silly as eating and apple.
Just my thoughts.
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Pastor, you do it as it should be done then…
Although, the thought that the Feast in some way should “picture” God’s Kingdom is absurd
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:52 pm
well we all have our own ideas about that
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Yes it is …. how do you know that Moses wasn’t a drunken, womanizing, loser, before realizing he was a prophet of God and would deliver his people?
You don’t. Its not something we submit an aplication for.
So we shouldn’t play that PC stuff when talking about GOD. We invented pilitical correctness.
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Whoa………look what I found in the Wikipedia entry for Jerusalem Syndrome:
Michael Dennis Rohan:
“Michael Dennis Rohan is an Australian citizen who gained worldwide infamy on August 21, 1969, when he attempted to set fire to the Al-Aqsa mosque, located atop the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Rohan was arrested for the arson attack on August 23, 1969. He was tried, found to be insane, hospitalized in a mental institution and later deported from Israel.
“Rohan, a Christian and considering himself “the Lord’s emissary”, stated that he tried to destroy the al-Aqsa Mosque acting upon divine instructions to enable the Jews of Israel to rebuild the Temple on the Temple Mount in accordance with the Book of Zechariah, thereby hasten the second coming of Jesus as the Messiah to rule the world for one thousand years.
“Rohan stated that he had attempted to burn down the mosque after reading an editorial by the Worldwide Church of God’s founder Herbert W. Armstrong in the June 1967 edition of his The Plain Truth magazine, of which Rohan was a subscriber. The Daily Telegraph newspaper in London pictured Rohan on its front page with a copy of The Plain Truth magazine sticking out from his outside jacket pocket.”
My family joined in ‘76. We never heard of ‘75 in Prophecy and we definitely didn’t hear about this.
Anyone else (ex-member) ever hear about this? According to the wiki article, the church tried to spin it to say Rohan was only a co-worker and not a baptized member, but it would be interesting to know the truth……..
It’s not like any of the church’s records pre-1994 exist anyway; you just know Junior had his minions go through and shred it all, even as they were lowering Senior into the ground…………….
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:07 pm
If i get anything out of this Banncam and Todaysfates back and forths have been informative…thanks guys i twas starting to sound like “RW is false” “no he’s not, he’s smelly and false” “no no, he’s false smelly and loud”…in here…
whether u believe him or not it helps to try to imagine what the guy on the other side of the fence is thinking which is what i think Todaysfate is attempting….
The way some of you are describing what a prophet should or shouldn’t do makes it seem as if you’ve never read the bible for yourselves…the prophets were far from perfect…all of them had their flaws and this is just from a few chapters and verses in the random books in the bible, never before did anyone have this much info on a self-professed prophet before so we gotta keep in mind whoever ends up being the end-time prophets will not be perfect…that could be RW on the 17th….or a two totally different people 17 decades from now…either way if their prophet hood was supposed to be that obvious there wouldn’t be any point to mention false prophets in revelations…its something thats’ hard to prove or disprove til the prophecies are supposed to occur.
At the very least RW has a realistic p.o.v on Christianity. Most people in the world if we did a poll would say “i am a good person” the avg. Christian not excluded…people just think “well i never killed anyone, or raped anyone, and i read the bible” and assume they’re good…not realize we’re all guilty….not because some original sin…that original sin just led to the idea we can be our own gods/godesses…we’re born into sin because we are bred to sin. Our parents lie…teach us to lie…parents tell a baby not to lie bu they lie to eachother in front of it and have u ever seen a 3 or 4 year old kid get caught something wrong…”i didn’t do it”
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Wow. Just following the links in the articles. Rohan tried to burn down the Muslim mosque because of his belief in Armstrongism…………and it led to riots and violence all over the world………………
:-( 
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Todaysfate: “Yes it is.”
No because Ronald has the bible to show as proof to back up his supposed future prophecies and Moses only brought ‘himself.’
That’s why I think it’s not a fair comparison.
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:12 pm
I fell into that trap long ago…i started thinking…hey im a pretty good guy…until i realized im no different than the murderers and theives the only dif is that my life hasn’t placed me in the same exact conditions as them but in many ways if im not careful i can develop the same mindset.
Imagine if u will someone punching in and out of work. think about how many people steal hours from time to time…in their heads its not much harm done…and they wont get caught, now ask yourselves how many people would do that same time card trick if they knew they’d see an extra MILLION dollars in their check and were guaranteed not to get caught….MOST people…the 13 dollars u stole vs the million u stole if u had the chance are the same crime, either way u add to a cycle of stealing, cheating, lying to get ahead…a little lie there, a little cheating here and we have NO idead how it affects other people. that 13 dollars might’ve been the exact cutoff for your company to lay people off somewhere halfway around the world. and when we’re using that 13 bucks to see a movie we’d never consider that.
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:12 pm
WW,
I did know know about this incident. I bet they want to forget it! ha ha
I’m not surprised though. I won’t be surprised if someone tries to make RW’s prophecies come about too.
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Marie, Benncam,
Thats what I am afraid of. See… if something totally credible does happen on or arround 4/17 … what will we think then? Which way will we go then?
Have you even considered this? Do you feel as if you are somehow submitting to Ron W by just considering the next step?
Be honest here … do you feel deep within your soul that the “Holy Spirit” is telling you that what ROn W is a looney? Have you ever experienced what you would call the “Holy Spirit”?
Me? I think maybe… but I am not sure. I do believe that if Ron is true… and if I am in some kind of danger on a mass scale… and if I am meant to survive … then it will come to me when it needs to. Maybe not. Or maybe it will just be paranoia.
But to me … the only answer is to start getting in the frame of mind now … by reserching, talking, and thinking about it… because if something happens … its going to be vary cloudy to figure out why it did. Unless it just comes to you.
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Banncam:
“I won’t be surprised if someone tries to make RW’s prophecies come about too.”
Don’t say that. I’m already worried about some of Weinland’s elders getting a little too zealous about Rotten Ronnie’s predictions of death for his critics this Saturday past………………
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:21 pm
waytenceewatch,
What you are describing is “earning” salvation which cannot be done. Some people believe this. They think, “well, I’ve never really done anything wrong, I’m a good person so God will accept me into Heaven”. They do not know the savior and they do not know they cannot earn their way to salvation.
The only remedy is reading scripture.
This is why I reject all those “add ons” HWA claimed.. (Holy Days = God’s Plan, among others) “Pastor” on this blog continues to believe a man’s opinion. So do all the COG splinters. Main stream “Christianity” has its false teachings too.
For people who believe in the Bible, it is all you need. All the other “Christian” and “Cult” books/booklets… They will lead to problems. Spiritual, physical, emotional, financial
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:22 pm
There it is again … if someone actualy tries to and succeeds in making the prophesis of (not just Ron W) but of the bible come true …. then they will in fact .. have come true.
Doe the Bible explain how prophesis have to come to pass in order to be valid?
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Todaysfate Says:
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Thats what I am afraid of. See… if something totally credible does happen on or arround 4/17 … what will we think then? Which way will we go then?
Have you even considered this? Do you feel as if you are somehow submitting to Ron W by just considering the next step?
I think the signs and wonders of the false prophets aren’t actually supposed to be miracles but illusions and tricks, like the pharoahs men who turned their staffs into snakes…it wasn’t an actual miracle the devil’s power is in his lies…they were nothing more than the david copperfields of that time so modern false prophets would be staging events to fool people. but i dont think RW has the power or money to stage the events he’s predicted…if he’s proven false it’ll be cause NOTHINg out of the ordinary happens….
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Ex 7:13
I thought it was God that hardened pharaohs heart.
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
In response to Banncam…knowing christ is more than saying or even thinking christ lived and died….its knowing why christ was sent, knowing Gods love for sending his son and living according to that…
I you dont want to get wet and i tell u that its raining…you show that you KNOw what im saying by carrying an umbrella, if you go outside and wish to say try and tell the rain “i know you’re here” you’ll be wet…
Knowing christ, knowing God, is understanding what was written and to live by it…when we do good deeds we don’t do it for god, it doesn’t benefit a being who has no needs…its for our own good, when you refrain from sin its because sin is deadly, not merely cuz god might punish you, but it leads to self destruction…
Like a parent tells a child don’t play with fire…if he ignores it he’ll get burned, if he listens the parent doesnt get and prettier or slimmer or taller lol…the child just didnt hurt himself…
God thought about all of the possible ways to create beings with unlimted potential but if he let them run rampant instead of just killing eachother left and right they’d eventually be destroying galaxies at a time for selfish reasons…its only right that he should give them guidelines to follow…not because he wants to restrict us…but because he’s all knowing and knows any other way will lead to doom on a universal scale….so while we’re still at this low level he needs to correct us…so one day if we will make our OWN organisms we wont infest them with our flaws and it’ll prevent of from filling the UNIVERSE…not just earth…with evil…
for example the fruit from eden…it wasnt that god put it there just to test us…its likely something that was MADE for us to eat…when we were ready…
like a kid who first learns to walk, wants to run, and they fall, over and over again, only when they learn to run can u put them on a track team or something, otherwise they’d hurt themselves and others
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:42 pm
2nd Timothy 3
:
1. This know also … that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy
Perilous times? There is no mention of nulear bombs here. No supervolcanoes, earthquakes, or El Nino. No assiniations, government oppression, mass murder or mass suicide?
Who the heck is Timothy quoting here anyway? Haven’t people been lovers of themselves since adam first saw his reflection in the lake? Isn’t being disobedient to parents a normal part of growing up? Havn’t people mocked since before the time of the flood?
If these things have always been going on … then… might they be getting more intense near the end? Is it easier to get a divorce now than it was in the past? It is harder to “disipline” a child than it was in the past?
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:44 pm
the devil won’t actually produce real miracles….so we don’t have to worry about weinland carrying out the events himself to prove his point…if he is under the devil’s influences his ’signs and wonders’ will be through lies and fooling the public. only God has the power to perform miracles or give that ability to whom he sees fit.
Its like this all over the world. Like in Haiti voudu priests are devil worshippers who mix catholicism with satan worship (saints=demons)…but they have no REAL power…they deceive…things like fish poison which stops the lungs and heart then they give the antidote and the person has suffered brain damage…the person ends up a walking fool and the families are convinced the devil has magically turned their loved one into a zombie…and they’re tricked into giving up their life savings…its all lies…if Ronald weinland is false NOTHING will happen…the kind of destruction he’s prophesied he doesn’t have the means to fake
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:47 pm
benncam, there you go attributing things to me that you do not know to be true. You can’t earn salvation it is a free gift. We are saved by Grace through faith, and faith brings forth works. Jas 2:18
sry ironman,
so you see you are jumping to conclusions that are not valid.
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:48 pm
WW said, “In response to Banncam…knowing christ is more than saying or even thinking christ lived and died….its knowing why christ was sent, knowing Gods love for sending his son and living according to that…”
You are correct. This is why the “journey” is the walk with Christ. Where we are in relationship with Him.
It is more than reading it and believing it. The parables Christ gives are “interactive” between master/servant. This means real interaction between the two.
You mentioned earlier (maybe a week ago) that the “destination” was mentioned so much in WCG that the journey was never Emphasized. But now you realize the JOURNEY IS WHAT CHRIST and LIFE is all about… I believe you are right on this…
WW… YOU and I… we think alike
I just don’t have the brain power you have!
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:50 pm
YAY Pastor!
You are correct. Therefore… the SABBATH and HOLY DAYS are great traditions, but NOT attached to SALVATION or identifiers to God’s people!
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Yea that’s pretty much what i was thinkin with less words…even as a kid it always disturbed me when people said “im saved”…not even jesus was saved til he died and woke up days later…so none of us will know how good we are til our bodies rot and he that is was and always will be shows us his might by opening our eyes.
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Banncam: That stuff about the christ figure wasn’t posted by me, sorry. I’m irreligious, and an agnostic panentheist to boot: My version of deity, if one actually exists, is impersonal at best, and comes closest to being described by string theory, than the canonical christian scriptures. Sorry.
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Fred,
Sounds like you want to eat your cake and have it too. As long as you aren’t harming yourself or others, it’s all good.
Pax?
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Oh well, WW
At least you don’t spin and talk scriptures in circles like most religious people do!
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:12 pm
John Greenberg;
If you recall I was the ‘bait and switch’ guy. You basically said that its in the Bible that you are judged immediately after resurrection. Ron has been saying all along that the judgment is at the end of the 100 years.
Like anyone who has read the bible, I have my own spin on it. Since Ron is a ‘Prophet’ he has Gods spin on it and can end all this confusing spin from people and churches. What a marvelous thing.
Most of the bloggers here seem to be former members of Churches associated with Ron’s. They seem to be here to prevent Ron’s internet advertising from recruiting new members, much to Ron’s Chagrin.
Some bloggers come with questions and are gone.
Then there are some, usually with names sounding like John (Harrell) and Wayne (Mathews), who come on here to speak in a most forceful manner supporting Ron and condemning this site and its bloggers.
It is almost as if Ron himself is replying to the blog, switching the 100 year bait with lake of fire scare tactics.
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Apparently you can notify the Israeli health authorities ahead of time, if you suspect someone is going to Jerusalem, who believes they are one of the biblical figures of either the old or new testament (Jerusalem Syndrome)……but I can’t find a specific address on the Internet, and I fear the email would get lost somewhere in the multi-hospital system “switchboard” on the Israeli Health web site………
Anybody here got international calling on their phone plan?!?! I would say, according to the study done here, Weinland could be accurately reported to Israeli health authoritirs as having “Jerusalem Syndrome Sub-type II(i)” —- now we just need to let someone in charge at the Israeli Health Authority know, before April 14th. Whaddaya think?
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:14 pm
“authoritIes” ugh I need coffee
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:14 pm
sure does taste good. We are going to observe NTBO on the 19th and have prime rib and leg of lamb, twice baked potato, corn, green beans, salad, fruit salad, deserts, some good wine, and a lot of good fellowship, and the church is paying for the catered meal
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Magisto,
My condolences to you.
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Hello everybody - I am still here. Sometimes I have to bleep in and read real fast then bleep out. But I try to stay tuned in as much as I can even though I can’t always post.
IW - That pic out of the bible story books brings back some old memories. I still have my set. I think my Mom still has the old gray-ish set somewhere.
That pic is prob what is in RW’s mind about what everybody is going to look like when he gets done with them.
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:20 pm
WW - did you see a posting on RW site about his trip to Israel?
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:26 pm
That is one thing I miss the night to be much remembered……..we always had between 20-50 people at our place………it was quite a production……….all out of our own pockets tho’.
Funny how the calendars have gone the way of the splinters; every CoG group’s calendar is different; 19th for CoG-PKG is just an ordinary sabbath, I know of one other independent CoG in Southern Cali. that will keep Passover the 19th, and am I mis-remembering that we (WCG) always had NTBMR(O) a week or so prior to Passover?
Speaking of wacky calendars, check out Triumph Prophetic Ministries some time: That splinter’s entire reason for existence (and for collecting tithes from its members) is so “apostle” Bill Dankenbring and his family get an all-expenses paid vacation to Jerusalem every year, to sniff grain sheaves under the Solstice moon…..from this effort comes the far-out (and not even close to any of the other groups’ calendars) “Holy Days According to Bill”. No I’m not kidding; Dankenbring was the one who was circulating the tabloid Prophecy Flash! in the late 80s, very early 90s, before the ministers caught wind of it and “warned” the members against reading the thing.
At present, the advertising supplement of The Journal (Connections) is similarly filled with various ads proclaiming “We have the one true holy days calendar!”
Sigh. The days of the little paper wallet card (How hard-line was my family? We always put up the calendar to go by the wallet card only was not “converted” enough. :roll:) are long since past, I fear. You want a sure-fire way to bring all the CoGs back together? Get them to all agree on the same holy days calendar.
Yeah. Never going to happen.
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:27 pm
CallieMae: Yep. It’s already up on the blog. I’m trying to figure out how to notify the Israeli Health Authority right now.
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:29 pm
To keep the contradiction train chugging along…
In Revelation 11:3
(international version) notice how God will FIRST give them power THEN they are supposed to their Prophecy thing. So how come Weinland is Prophesying now un-officially??? God has not GIVEN him ‘powers’ to do so yet!!!!
Well anyways if his job becomes official (17th) then on that day at FIRST he will be given POWER’S and THEN he will be able to be fully fulfill his role as an end time prophet. NOW…if he continues to make spiritual b.s claims AFTER the 17th then he would in-validate himself because then God did NOT give him and the other witness any powers…it’s a simple fill in the blank exercise for people with pea for brains.
(btw there is NO official/unoffical job claiming b.s. in the Bible either but whatever he just makes up stuff as he goes along)
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:42 pm
WW that ain’t ever going to happen. It took me a long time to figure that out. However there a few independent groups that we fellowship with that seem to have some sense. We have an open fellowship but none of the “corporate”groups will have anything to do with us. we’re too independent for them. We observe the NTBO the night after we observe passover(communion, Eucherist or what ever you call it).
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Yes..
A date here
And a date there
here a date, there a date
EVERYWHERE dates dates….
It’s all a moon watch, a calendar watch, a 24 hour period watch, days watch…
ALL for what????
Galatians 4:9-11
Revelation 21:23
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:44 pm
This just in:
Results for “Myrtle Harrell”:
Etymology*:
——————————————————————————–
Forename:
Origin: Greek
Meaning: The Green Tree
Even odds the little woman isn’t Weinland’s little woman who is the 2Wit. Or is that what Weinland wants everyone to think??
Crap. There I go, speculating just like Rotten Ronnie wants. I swore I wouldn’t do that.
I really don’t care who he announces as the second witless. I just hope the Israeli Health Authority gets its hands on the lot of them before they get into the country, not after the sermon on the 19th………..
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Yeah…and there’s that horribly overlooked bit in Revelation 22:10-11
that renders the entire book moot.
“Do’oh?” Me thinks.
But hey, I’m still over on the Ark blog waiting for an answer to penguins. Why discuss hermeneutics at a time like this?
Jon
P.S. Welcome Pastor Porter! Always nice to meet a civil believer. Are you an actual pastor? If so, may I ask with what church?
I’m a former minister myself. But then I found Sri Chimony.
I kid, I kid…
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Aaaaaaaargh. No verses from Revelation here please.
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:51 pm
SORRY, sorry…
: )
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:52 pm
WW the reason that ain’t ever gonna happen is because the “leaders” of all these groups would have to share and that ain’t gonna happen. they want the “respect” AND TITHES of the members and they are desperately afraid of losing any members. I’m glad I don’t have that problem. I tried to get this group to go somewhere else and they refused. If they ever do, I will make a killing on the building. Before someone jumps the gun don’t go off on me, I built the building and it was all my money.
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Do you think he wants to be in Jerusalem at that time so he can have an alibi so he wont be blamed if something happens and his org is blamed for it? You know, the April 17 disaster that is supp to happen?
Who is the Israeli Health Auth? If they try to give them some shots or vacc - they prob wont take them because they are against any kind of vaccines.
My Daddy made us take the vaccines when we were kids even though the Church didn’t want us to. So ridiculous.
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Found here:
Example
“A South African man, suffering from bipolar affective disorder and with a history of several stays in hospital in his homeland, visited Jerusalem on four occasions, each following a manic episode culminating in admission to hospital. According to this man, he came to Jerusalem in order to kill a man who had raped his daughter. His family always forewarned the Israeli health authorities of his visits and, consequently, he was admitted to hospital immediately upon his arrival in Jerusalem.“
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:59 pm
FYI: here was what I was thinking the 2nd trumpet would be (just in case the nukes go off).
http://www.geocities.com/northstarzone/TSUNAMI.html
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Fred,
You’re right about the larger splinters. They definitely can’t/won’t give up on the gravy train. Flurry and Meredith’s respective edifices to “the work”, not to mention the $80million bucks’ worth of members’ money United just spent on a strip of land in Texas, are proof enough of that.
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:00 pm
jon, I don’t know if I am or not. The congregation in 2001 asked that I be their pastor. I was ordained in 2001. If that makes me a pastor then I guess I am. That and six dollars will get you a starbucks coffee.
They listen to me about as long as it takes them to get out the door. Ha, Ha
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:01 pm
He might get his a** kicked over there if he doesn’t watch out. If he really goes over there and not just some place where he can make a film or a tape in some room that no one can tell where it really is. Like Osama does sometimes. If he really does go over there, he is going to stay in the nicest hotel and eat at the nicest restaurants - you know. All at the expence of the “brethren”. And take some tours and get some nice souvenirs.
Did he say he is going to publicly announce all this? How public? CNN type public?
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:03 pm
WW - how can we call the I H O and tell them RW is on his way………
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Kurt,
Interesting. A 600m tidal wave. Wow.
But, then again…
Kinda reminds me of prophets. Scccccary stuff…then they vanish. Heh.
Let’s hope that’s the case if and when Cumbre Vieja decides to assume the wrath of God. See, I for one do ‘not’ want people to die in mass.
I’m silly like that.
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:09 pm
CallieMae: Nope, he’s just as vague as ever. Hell, he might end up going to Jerusalem, Pennsylvania, if he lands on the no-fly list for his predictions of nuclear armageddon. The US Department of State visited the WW blog at least once, after I posted the relevant quotes from the March 1 sermon.
They never came back, but we can always hope Rotten Ronnie got on the no-fly list from that, can’t we?
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Okay WW…
Colossians 2:16-17
How about this one….
days…dates…
They mean NOTHING….
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:13 pm
calliemae one in 94 boys are now autistic and it is directly related to immunizations. They say they are mercury free on the bottle, but on the instruction paper in the package it says that they may contain mercury, a