“I would not want to be in your shoes – come April 17.”
— Ronald Weinland addressing his critics in a recent sermon.
— Ronald Weinland addressing his critics in a recent sermon.
Wow, that’s only 14 days off. Brings back childhood memories, I tell ya. Oh! Here’s one now…
From 1975 in Prophecy, published in 1956 by Herbert W. Armstrong.
Illustration by Basil Wolverton.
Part 1 Basic info and links.
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5 FAQ
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10
Part 11
Part 12
Jay29 said:
“…I believe Weinland might be right, but I haven’t stopped my life, I still pay bills, I still get laid…my life isn’t on pause, I’m not a baptized member. I love the idea of living in a better world though, I refuse to stop living in this world for the sake of people’s opinions, even though I love to examine them…”
My sentiments exactly.
Banncam said:
“…For John G & Jay29, I suppose you don’t want to hear any “cry baby” talk or whining from those 52 abused girls who were taken from the LDS cult today…”
Are you honestly equating the COG with the LDS church, Banncam? You’re equating the treatment COG members received with the alleged abuse the LDS girls received? That’s not even close to honest, it’s indirect slander. I think you should apologize. In fact, I find it rather despicable that you would capitalize on these girls ordeal to make a cheap point.
CallieMae said:
“…John G doesn’t know WTH he’s talking about. Obviously, he never had to go thru with it. Maybe he needs to go join RW church for a few years if he likes it so much and have it crammed down his throat, get broke from 3 tithes. Go be lorded over and told how to live every aspect of his life, even what to eat, how long to wear your hair. I bet he won’t take it for very long…”
Let me clarify since so many people seem hellbent on misunderstanding me. My point is we’ve all had bad experiences in the past; some more than others. But there is a vein of people on here who seem very bitter about it, and vengeful. It seems these people blame the COG for everything that has gone wrong in their lives. The reason I brought my own childhood up is because both me and my brothers experienced the same thing; yet they are bitter and angry while I am content and peaceful. I didn’t go to public school either. I didn’t socialize with unbelievers. There were many other rules. But I think it was one of the best childhoods of my life. I was sheltered from much of the evil that exists in the world. There is good and bad in every situation. There are some on here who are content to wallow in their self-pity like pigs in the mud; it is unsightly and unseemly. If you wish to calmly warn others about perceived dangers in COG philosophy, by all means do so. But to pervert the process into a self-masturbatory action of eternally feeling sorry for oneself does us no good at all.
Weinland Watch said:
“…Nowhere does Weinland say (publicly) that it is the Pope he is referring to with that quote…”
R.W. might not have named the Pope specifically, however other evidence and research points to the possibility of the Pope playing a major role. I encourage you to check out this site.
http://www.666man.net
Marie said:
“…I was told I would not graduate from high school. – from the pulpit & at home
I was told I would not get married.
I was told I could not talk to my grandparents about ‘the truth’ because they would not understand…(really???? amazing how much they did understand)…”
Out of all the experiences I have heard, I will say that I think affirmations such as these are detrimental to a child growing up. These right here are negative experiences – and we all have these to some extent or another. They might be of a different texture or consistency, but we all have bad experiences. And I am glad, out of everybody here, that at least you provide some balance by also pointing out the positives in your life, Marie.
I worry, though, that there are those who cannot separate Armstrong from R.W., and see the two men as one. If there are those who wish to choose guilt by association because of Armstrong’s history, that is their choice. But even I know man is flawed and imperfect, and I still do not wish to risk God’s wrath by possibly prematurely labeling his witness a false prophet.
- JOHN G
Firestorm says:
“Wait till April”…ok were ‘IN’ April.”
But now it’s Pentecost or July. “God progressively reveals” after all.
WW: “But now it’s Pentecost or July. “God progressively reveals” after all.”
Well yeah he is trying to skip the month of April by trying to divert attention away from it. Even in April when he celebrates in Jerusalem that too will be diversionary tactics plus with some psychological effect of the importance of the place of Jerusalem where he can appropriately dub himself end-time-witness with the obligatory ohhhh and ahhhh’s that go with it. Well if he goes there…then he must be ‘really serious’ about this thing…etc
The thing is…he has personally hand-picked his followers and there is unfortunately very little anyone can do to convince them to use their own brains. Their ‘brains’ are in Ron’s hands now.
WW,
You wrote the following:
“One last thing: I asked you if you believed “the great religious leader” Weinland referred to in his March 1 sermon was the currently-sitting RCC pontiff. You answered yes. You are distorting your own prophet’s words, Jay29, and I challenge you to find one place, just ONE quote, where Weinland states that “great religious leader” is the Pope. Nowhere does Weinland say (publicly) that it is the Pope he is referring to with that quote.”
This is the closest that we get to Weinland addressing the identity of that “great religious leader.”
Last weeks transcipt of 3/29/08 “Three More Weeks”
http://weinlandtranscripted.wordpress.com/32008-weinland-audio-sermon-three-more-weeks/
“The Great Tribulation has a beginning and in end three and one-half years from now. The 7 Trumpets will intensify as the tribulation progresses. “…It starts April 17, will it start with a bang, I have no idea…there is a man visiting Washington D.C. and the next day in New York, I do know as well on that day, that individual has a being, Satan, who begins to influence him, who begins to work through him, and that doesn’t start until that day.”
1:53:20 “Three More Weeks” RW March 29 sermon:
“If by Pentecost I’m just going to make this real clear to everyone.
Excuse me Mr. False Prophet but there is no “IF”.
Are you trying to bargain for something?
I’m not sure but this might be the second time he has used this word.
The first one was in one of the radio interviews where he says IF this does
not occur by April he will find another line of work…
NOW he says that If by Pentecost it is not powerfully and abundantly clear…” Ummm actually this time he does not say he will find ‘another line of work’…so this means he will be keeping the money…?
The question remains though: Is Weinland stating privately to members (or on the internal mailing list for baptized members) that it is the Pope? The steadfast certainty of the believers’ claims that it will be, or is likely to be, the Pope suggests that there is more information that is being “given” to baptized members than just what we get to see out in the open.
Forgot to add: Special knowledge, or two levels of information, i.e., one for the members and another one for the public, meets Lifton’s criteria for thought-reform.
He said last week he would stop preaching. Unless of course “god progressively reveals” that he needs to keep preaching, because the goalpost has moved again……………..
I don’t see how the Pope being influenced by Satan in April would constitute for a physical happening in April…
If you don’t watch television or listen to the radio in April for whatever reasons then…HOW will certain people know?
Does having a radio, television or internet a REQUIREMENT for this?
So his God is a sort of tech-y-nerdy type of God?
The Pope being influenced by Satan certainly isn’t a world event, for the literally billions of people who do not believe in either!
WW: “The steadfast certainty of the believers’ claims that it will be, or is likely to be, the Pope suggests that there is more information that is being “given” to baptized members than just what we get to see out in the open.”
Well jeez mister. That ALONE would qualify him to be a FALSE prophet
-who is SUPPOSED to be prophesying to the ENTIRE WORLD AND ENTIRE NATIONS!
NO SECRETS PLEASE!
What is the point to having secrets just now when it’s the end of things as prophesied for all?
While RW has suggested the nukes as something to happen during the 3.5 years he never states that these nukes specifically would be what happens on April 17th so if you’re waiting for nukes in 12 days its likely not gonna happen even IF the RW is true…I think this is some of the misinformation that Jay29 is arguing against with you guys, yes he mentioned nukes, yes he mentioned April 17th, but you can’t add quotes together to give a false impression of what he’s said. Arpil 17= first trumpet, satan taking over “religious leader’s” mind (who is likely the pope but he could get into trouble for saying it directly), and something will happen to cause a 1/3 of plants etc… to die…which really wouldn’t even be the nukes he described at seaports because they wouldn’t be nuclear warheads so their damage would be limited and localized…
Its too EASY to disprove someone like RW without having to merge his quotes to have him look like he’s saying something he didn’t say.
If he is so secretive then what does his ’sackcloth of humility’ stand for?
Vague answers, not answering at all(?), verbally abusing his critics(?) (amongst many, many other questionable doings) and plain ol’ getting mad at everyone for not agreeing with his personal views certainly do not line up with this sackcloth of humility thing.
Can someone with humility declare himself with ‘Great Boldness?’
For one I don’t even know who, what, type of God he worships…because he has so well…non-explained it to everyone!..to the world…through the Internet…well actually to those who can afford such a technology.
Its too EASY to disprove someone like RW without having to merge his quotes to have him look like he’s saying something he didn’t say.
I think it’s DIFFICULT especially when he says CONTRADICTING things one after the other! Plus with the added factor of secrecy, and un-needed dramatic silence during his sermons.
The problems begin when trying to figure out what he has said.
So for critics that’s extra work with CLARITY thrown out the window.
Oh I think I’ve been more than clear enough. The true believers just don’t want to see clearly themselves.
Yes, the claim he’s making is a bold claim, but he can still be humble while making the bold claim. I don’t hear him ranting and raving about how much better HE is than other people. I don’t hear him listing his degrees and/or accomplishments, he isn’t saying God chose him because he’s the smartest or most handsome Christian…in fact he says he was never good at speaking, and is thankful that he can speak with such boldness as he was unaccustomed to that…now you can say he’s lying, or that its fake humility and you can suggest maybe he’s not humble on the inside, but nothing in his sermons and interviews strikes me as a man who isn’t humble.
I find it funny that you guys take what he says about those who doubt him as the main point of his sermon when he spends 2 hours talking about how great GOD is and how amazing JESUS’ role in all of this is…and he doesn’t quote a lot from the book, but the book itself is chock full of biblical references…
With all due respect, people are living this way because they fearfully embrace a book containing more holes that Swiss cheese as the divine word of God. It is human nature to become dogmatic and myopic when confronted with the alternative of facing your greatest fears.
Many of these posts suggest a two-alternative scenario: RW is the real deal, or RW is a false prophet. There is a viable third: RW’s delusion is an exponential progression of the same delusions that begin when one decides to believe that light existed without stars (Gen. 1:3; Gen. 1:14) or that the Alpha and the Omega would be concerned over a sect of loons building a tower to the skies actually being able to achieve their goals (Gen. 11:1-9).
I am not Sam Harris. I do not believe that faith is always a dangerous thing. But clearly, for some this is shaping up to be supremely harmful. It is a noble cause to attempt to counter these fears with a call to reason.
Face your fears. Explain the penguin.
Jon
btw i meant to say he DOES quote a lot from his book…
Chat room is open! Come on in the water’s fine!
Several of us are currently listening to Ron Weinland’s sermon in the chat room:
http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/chat/
The live audio link is here:
http://www.cog-pkg.org/audio/
Wow, this page filled fast. Please continue the discussion here.