Just got an SMS on my iPhone from Ronny: “4 DAYS B4 I CAN HAZ L337 SUPERPOWERZ, DEMUN D00DZ! FEER DA WITNESSEZ!!1!”
lol kthxbye.
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To Katie,
I feel so much for you. I could hear the pain in your voice in the interview and it nearly broke my heart. It seems to me that you have been beaten up your entire life with the fire and brimstone brand of religion taught in the SBC. Now you find yourself questioning contradictions in the bible, nut jobs that predict destruction, etc and you feel GUILTY for theses doubtful feelings. DON”T. You hear the polar opposite theories on religion on this blog and some of them start to make some scense to you. So much so that you are considering jumping from your one extreme to the other (atheism). DON”T. There is a middle ground for you, I believe Katie.
I believe there is a God. I believe he is a loving God. I believe you are saved through Grace. Explore the concept of Grace. It is an amazingly simple yet complex idea, but worth contemplation. Here are some thoughts for you.
1. If you’re current church is actually blocking your ability to feel God, then leave and search for one that teaches love, service, Grace and acceptance.
2. Know that faith is a life-long journey. It ebbs and flows and I believe this is what God wants for us. To come to him willingly and without fear.
3. Find ways to serve others through gifts of love, volunteering in the community, coaching little league, whatever. You’ll begin to feel something….trust me.
4. Know that even brilliant people are not perfect and they can be wrong. Slightly, mostly, or completely. No one has all the answers. Not in the church, on this blog, or in life. Trust yourself and your heart.
It sounds like you are in a desperate search for God or truth or something when it could be all around you saying “HELLO…KATIE?? Listen to the laughter of your children. Go to a hospital nursery and look at the newborns. Sit on you patio the next time it rains…
Take a break from this blog and listen to that still small voice inside you. In time, you’ll hear it.
Peace to you.
Richard_Saunders,
Hold on, I need to buckle up, it’s quite a change of the course. So, knowledge is wonderful. I’m glad you think so. But not in the case of that ever remembering man I guess, poor guy. It’s a brain disorder not a norm to remember so much information. There was a good article in New scientist magazine recently on that subject – quite fascinating phenomenon. Remembering takes up resources, brain is finite physical object, with finite capacity, gotta free up some space for new important memories to get going. As paradoxical as it sounds forgetting is a key to survival. Yet it’s important to remember a history (HWA and RW stories are great examples).
I don’t think this man’s sorrow is the same sorrow that Solomon was talking about though. Again, I think Kant, unarguably great thinker of 18th century should be dropped from this discussion, unless you can justify his support of your point. The man spent his entire life thinking, elaborating and looking for knowledge. I just don’t see him in the same boat as Solomon, agreeing on sorrow of knowledge. Nope, not Kant. The argument in that boat would be quite different.
I can’t agree more on your point that we are all humans and have flaws. These flaws will influence how we act and use our knowledge. It don’t agree that this is an argument to stop obtaining the latter. The only reason why we are having this discussion using Internet being hundreds or maybe thousands miles away is because people didn’t stop. Not even after obtaining too “much” knowledge as some people used to see it in the past (church was especially strict about that, geez, burned people alive; harsh, inhuman practices) and still see the development of our intelligence.
I will take your advice and won’t look for answers from you. I don’t feel disappointed though.
Enjoy your day,
Doc
Doc,
I agree with ya, I think. And have a great day as well!
Just so you know, I’m not debating anything, but if I were, it certainly wouldn’t be to stop asking questions and stop learning. To stop learning wasn’t Kant’s point, nor was it Solomon’s point. If that’s what people got from what I said than I have to apologize for being so inarticulate.
Merely, I think knowledge should be tempered.
ummmmm…..this blogs not half as much fun as it used to be….C,mon guys two days to go before Ronnie is superhuman!!….Lets talk Ron… I thought this was a Ron blog??……..Someone keep us updated on his Jerusalen trip..Weinland Watch?..Where is Banncam too?..We need Ronnie info….If there is any??..:)
Paul,
Now THERE is something we ALL can agree on!!
Somebody bring us some info, please!
Hey Ironwolf sort it out mate….Eagerly looking forward to your input on recent Jerusalem events to come…Ronald Weinland stuff…Not blinkin Solomon..Ronnie!…Go Ron go…go Ronnie go…Gooooooo Ronnieeee!!!…Yeh
Sorry guys think these Amphetamines are kickin in…;)
Hi Richard,
I asked for your views on Kant. That is hardly an issue of faith/no faith.
And yes, I remain open to anyone’s views that can be validated or self-supported. I would hardly be an agnostic unless this were true.
Odd claims from a guy who supposedly respects me.
True debate is not verbal slight of hand, Richard. It’s an exchange of ideas in the pursuit of truth — nothing more. Sure, the tools can be used as a smokescreen (as you have done in this post purposefully for the most part), but like any tool, abuse is bound to occur. That does not render the tool useless.
Or “vain” as our friend Solomon would say.
One has to wonder when he found the time to write in-between bouts of mad 1000-women Godly king sex and all…
…but, that’s another post.
One more bit: No one (especially me) believes they know everything about any one subject. I do claim ’some’ expertise on ’some’ things; others I claim a well-read understanding; still others I am clueless about, but do the research if interested.
Sorta. : )
It was also a snide little joke and not meant as an actual ‘rebuttal’.
One thing we debaters do well is distinguish between ‘actual’ ad hominem and someone being a smart-ass.
If I rebutted a position with ‘that’ as my only plea, then absolutely. But that was not the case.
So, forgive the shortness of words and allow me to elaborate:
“The first chapter of Proverbs is indicate of the pattern we see in early Jewish literature concerning God’s nature. It displays a God who is both rewarding to his friends and merciless to his enemies, evoking human traits such as “mocking” or “revenge” as motifs.”
Or, to appease 2008Grad, “Typical Jewish rant…”
(I kid.)
You are correct in the first assertion — poor wording on my part. “Just because one might conclude…” would be more appropriate. My apologies.
Now you’re straying big-time.
If you wish to conclude that the Bible (or just the writings of Solomon) is guilty of logical fallacy, I’m right there with you. However, I was quoting from Solomon’s own conclusions at the end of the book of Ecclesiastes:
The phrase “this is the end of the matter” was a phrase used in legal proceedings. We use the phrase, “In conclusion” or “In summation.” In essence, this was his “closing argument.”
Exactly what part of “whole duty of man” do you fail to understand? Perhaps “whole” meant “partial, excluding the arts, sciences, and adventures in windsurfing.”
This is not a non-sequitur at all — it’s a conclusion based on what was written.
You on the other hand make an unsubstantiated claim, contracted by this verse in particular, by asserting that the Bible “makes no claims” to being the end-all, be-all of human instruction.
Now, care to support this claim with a verse?
I would enjoy that.
That was a rather obvious joke, Richard. But, since we’re being literal today, perhaps you should brush up on the 613 Mitzvos and see if you could have fulfilled the requirements and still made time for your particle physics lessons.
(Again, this is somewhat in jest.)
Now, where did you get the notion that Israel was “quite advanced?” As compared to what? I suggest you research the uncovering of the “temple of Solomon” and associated ruins, and compare that with the Greek and Egyptian ruins from prior and current periods, and Mayan ruins of 900 BC.
And what of our culture, Richard? Let’s chat about the cultural and scientific advancements that the nation of Israel has laid at the feet of humanity, shall we?
And they are … ?
Do you honestly want to debate this? If so, present your evidence.
I would be more than happy to make a case for believers being excessively fearful of evil if you’d like, but the case would be open to interpretation by the very nature of the terms “evil” and “fear”.
However, if you wish to interpret the past 2000 years of history with Christians as NOT being riddled with both fear and the fear of evil, feel free to do so.
I would like to think you know better, but that would be a fallacy as well.
I did not appeal to authority, Richard — you did by making the correlation to begin with.
And, you’re now descending into the ridiculous, asking me to understand TRUE INTENT. So, “mind-reading” is now on the debater’s list of tools?
The question was simple: How do you see Kant’s and Solomon’s philosophies as similar, shared, or connected?
All logical fallacies, Richard.
(True, but I’m kidding.)
This is not a fact, it’s a philosophical stance.
What really matters?
I would say “truth” really matters — both the pursuit of truth, and the concept of universal truth being explored or even expelled.
So, for me, exploring and defining truth “really matters.”
Mathematics, science, and logic are all fantastic tools to arrive at specific truths. These are a priori, Richard — while religious, moral and spiritual truth is a posteriori.
However, when these a posteriori understandings are combined with evidential knowledge they become subjects to the same degree of inquisition as any other postulate.
So, while you consider much of this a “waste of time”, I do not. I assert that it uncovers the intentions of our beliefs and the ways we go about forming them to begin with. While not evidence in and of itself, it is important to understanding how we arrive at conclusions.
That, and Kant was as far from Solomon as I am from Pat Robertson.
: )
Not that I want to place myself “among the gods” or anything but, I offer this in aid of the discussion:
Ask, and ye shall receive.
Weinland did indeed make it to the holy land yesterday undeterred. But if I tell you how I know that, then I’d have to kill you.
Jon,
I’m not going to read that lengthy post. My eyes hurt already as it is. I only posted in the first place to try and cheer up Katie a bit. I respect you even though we disagree, my friend.
Now, do you have any fingertips left to comment on Ron Weinland?
I hear ya man.
It looks like I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue.
Pluggedin said:
So, should we trust ourselves and our ‘heart’ implicitly? Doesn’t that preclude the self-evident statement that we too could be wrong?
Yes, you have to reach your own conclusions. But we ‘learn’ to trust our own judgment only through the questioning of it. If it never endures trials or testing, how much good is it? And how many times has your “heart” betrayed you?
I hear the intent of your post — so do not get me wrong. But I also see this as a tactic commonly used by theists when confronted with uncomfortable issues.
The fact remains that there are things here any person who seeks truth should address and wrestle with. Simply saying, “No one knows it all,” is not sufficient.
The Muslim could make the exact same claim, but it would be rejected based upon what you understood as fact and reason — not on the heart.
Damn, that was funny TF. : )
Love that movie!
(See, we can agree on something!)
Richard,
And I respect you as well. We may not be as far apart as it seems. ; )
As for RW:
We already know he’s fudged on his earlier prophecies, declaring an event that would be clear to the world, upon nothing happening, a “spiritual event.” Typical tactics from EOTW guys if you ask me.
I take it you’ve seen this link?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm
I see him joining a long line of devout whackos in the near future.
But that’s not what concerns me. What concerns me is the laws of probability and chance.
Let’s say ten so-called “prophets” make 10 claims. Probability says the odds are against them coming true, unless they are generic like, “We will see earthquakes.” We see earthquakes every year, and always have.
But let’s say 1000 prophets do the same thing. Or 10,000. Probability increases, doesn’t it? Eventually someone will hit on something at some date that will appear to reflect his words.
And then we have trouble.
This is nothing more than probability. But people wanting to believe will see it as confirmation, and then Buddha-forbid what comes of it from there.
So, in RW’s case, despite 44 things he’s said that is wrong (I just made that number up for illustration purposes), if ONE thing happens and it’s large enough, then who knows how many people will be suckered into the downward spiral.
Even worse: Let’s say Ronnie becomes more popular than he is. (Face it, for the PR Guy for The Two Witnesses, he is not exactly the talk of the town.) Unless he pulls a Waco, I don’t see how that’s possible — but what IF.
Some terrorist losers are scrawling around on the web, wondering what day would be good to drop their freakin’ home-made bomb on an American city. They come across Weinland, and they say, “Hey, why not? The end-time hysteria would be a massive tactical diversion.”
So, my concerns are not with RW as much as they are with what he stands for, and what someone with greater PR skills (and looks…ghad, he’s an ugly duckling) could pull off.
Hey. I want to apologize to anyone who is reading these posts about my spirituality thinking, what the heck does this have to do with RW… Well, it really has everything to do with him. My story only goes to show how very devastating it can be to a person’s life to be taught the types of dogmatic theology that Weinland teaches. I am just one example — as there are currently many many lives being torn apart by this man’s claims. I hope you can see how this completely and totally relates to the topic of this thread. Besides, NOTHING is happening in the world of seals, thunders, and trumpets anyway… : ) well, except for on Todaysfate’s planet. just kidding!! ; )
So my heartfelt thanks go out to Ekimks, Renton, Miss B, Richard, and pluggedin. I read your words with tears streaming. And just ask Jon, even if it seems like I’m not listening, I am taking everything in. I won’t be evangelizing ANYONE till I get all of this under my skin a bit better. No worries there. I just long for the day when they can see that scaring people into loving God is sick and perverted. I love my nieces too much to not at least try at some point to bridge this with my brother and sister. But not today…
Katie,
I know for a fact what you say is true. Everyone should be made aware of that.
What I wish to point out, other than Katie’s bravery for having the gumption to question a lifetime of beliefs based upon her own reasoning, is the difference in your cheerleaders. ; )
I have yet to read one post from an agnostic or atheist pleading with you to consider the facts and trying to sway you ‘personally’ to a conclusion one way or the other.
As Katie can testify, I have urged her to do just the opposite.
The believers here are a bit more adamant about where they’d like to see you wind up. I understand that concern, but it limits free-thinking.
I guess this is one of the advantages of being an agnostic — I can say with total honesty, total peace, that all I want for Katie is peace: Within herself and within her life. Whether that’s through a return to her faith or a complete rejection of it is not of my concern. My concern is for her well-being and growth as a human being.
Can everyone else say the same — even if that growth took her in the opposite direction of your religious beliefs?
I know you are all concerned with the peace of her “soul” as well. I respect that. But I urge you to respect her questions as well, and the lack of peace her answers to this point have delivered.
A faith worth having is one worth understanding, defending, and even questioning. That is the very definition of bravery.
Jon
I could be wrong, a lot of times I am, but I always get a hint, just a hint of underlying anger or bitterness when Athiest discuss things. I always wonder who they are angry AT. Can’t be God…
Anyway, back to RW:
Curious… say you have a major plumbing issue in your home and call in a plumber. He looks at the problem and you ask him if can fix it. What if his response included:
“It is not known…”
“My current understanding tells me…”
“the answer to that will reveal itself progressively…”
“I don’t have the foggiest idea…”
You’d show him to the door, no?
Jon,
You are totally wrong! TOTALLY WRONG!
Well, a bit. A bit wrong. That’s my point, anyway.
OK… you may be right.
Yeah. Like I said from the beginning. You’re right on about that. I agree.
Pluggedin said:
Really?
You cannot get angry at God?
David did.
But you are correct in one sense — we (I’m an agnostic, not an atheist) are not angry at “your god”. We are put off by the fact that someone could hold up a being who openly claims to take the lives of the innocent and holds in such reverence the need to spill blood.
Most of the time, that is the ‘anger’ you pick up on — and it’s not anger or bitterness in the traditional sense. Frustration perhaps. Or, for some, resentment over spending decades of their lives in fear.
Jon
P.S. Your RW comments are dead-on the mark. Yes, I most certainly would It would take absolute bind faith to accept him.
Oh, wait… ; )
Katie,
No apologies needed whatsoever!
“I just long for the day when they can see that scaring people into loving God is sick and perverted.”
I’m with ya! And that’s EXACTLY what Ron is doing.
This might sound off the wall, but now that you know the pain personally, you are exactly the kind of person to send compassion to these victims of Ron’s who are or will soon be hurting. If I might suggest that as a silver lining? ?:)
Hey, Richard, I resemble that remark… ; )
Please know that in my off line chats with Jon, he has pushed me to procede with caution… not to make hasty decisions, seek council from both sides, etc… I know that he has been where I am, and that he can literally “feel” my pain in this. He seems to be a good guy with right motives. Give him a break. No one has talked me into or out of anything here. I have repeated this cycle of doubt for 32 years. It’s past time to stop my own insanity in repeating past mistakes.
katie,
Jon and I go way back. Several weeks, in fact.
Perhaps you’re referring to the “totally wrong!” post? hehehehe
That was a knock-off (and a poor one I might add) of Monty Python. I know Jon completely understands that was a funny and not an actual retort. And I hope he will appreciate my attempt to make him laugh a bit.
For the record, I did agree with his post previous to mine.
Hey Katie, glad to see you posting, you have been on my mind.
Been there, girl!! As you know from my former posts: I did not grow up under heavy indoctrination, a la Herb, but I do have a need, like you, to make sure I am honest with myself about what I believe, and why. I do not have to understand it all, but i do need to OWN it. I feel a bit complicit in this as I was expressing my own confusion a few posts back, we are sorta switching roles here, ah the dialectic.
Here is a couple sites to balance out the extremes of god, no god..the first is from a science teacher and former atheist:
http://www.doesgodexist.org/AboutClayton/PastLife.html
This next one I hesitated on, due to its Catholic slant,(Not that there is anything WRONG with that : >) however, he does make some solid reasoning and is not overly dogmatic:
http://www.doesgodexist.org/AboutClayton/PastLife.html
(no peeking Jon, we already know your opinion of these non-falsifiable matters of the spirit.)
I concur with Richard and his solid advice to you. God does speak thru his people….and the greatest is Love.
You did very well expressing yourself on the radio, btw, that was brave.
Luv Sue
oh good. i wasn’t allowed to watch the irreverent monty python… so i totally missed that.
Btw, here is my proper email (dashed when i should have dotted last time), if you care to respond or just chat.
bit0xtra.thot@gmail.com
sue, thanks, pal. i’m reading your site. and i hopefully got an email thru to you this time…. if not, auk80@bellsouth.net is where you can find me.
Jon said:
Simply saying, “No one knows it all,” is not sufficient.
Not sufficient for whom? Not you obviously, Jon. If EVERYTHING surrounding the concept of a creator cannot be proven, you dismiss it ALL. I get that. But for me and possibly others, I look at what can be proven true or false, yes. I take that into account for my belief system. What’s left, for me, is faith. And for me, that IS sufficient.
RW and his crew and other “fear God or he’ll throw you into the fire” crowds are bad and wrong. Perhaps all organized religion is, for that matter. But because they are false doesn’t mean that one can’t put those aside and still retain a type of spirituality and the belief in a higher power. In my opinion, anyway.
I’m with pluggedin – it is possible to have spirituality and belief in God without religion.
BTW – the ‘great satan’ (I’m kidding) just landed in the US – I guess here goes the fireworks – at least according to RW. Let the show begin…..
oooh!
Thanks for the update, Marie.
The game is afoot!! Release the hounds!
Jon,
You are obviously quite intelligent and utilize strict adherence to logical reasoning that most individuals of faith are unable to comprehend. However, you (like the rest of us) must rely on FAITH in the WORD of others in order to prove your points. That in itself is fallacy.
There is little doubt that from our birth, we learn most things through repetition and experience. Some things just don’t come to us in that manner though.
I.E.
1. Why are vegetables appealing? Hunger? Nope. Why? I can present 400 vegetables in a manner that makes them LOOK appealing. None of which would I have the desire to eat. Is it because they were force fed as a child? Nope, I don’t like the SMELL, or TASTE. Are vegetables appealing because I HEARD they were GOOD? Nope. After one or two BAD vegetables, the Pope himself could say it tastes GOOD and I would still say it is BAD. Where am I going with this?
2. If evolution is truth, why would man evolve in a manner that allows him to only see small bands of light? To hear from only a short distance?
3. Everything in life is a test. The greatest test of all is FAITH. We all have free will. The freedom to believe whatever we will.
4. Many people believe in God because they were told too. Some because of the remote possiblity of going to hell if you don’t. Others still because amoeba does not equal mammal.
5. Why are things fun, sad, tragic or interesting? I believe it is because our senses are attacked. We have emotions and I believe that if we evolved to our current selves, then we would have left emotions behind millions of years ago. This is a simple view of why I believe that there is at least a remote possiblity of a higher power.
I think I felt a rumble…naw, just hungry, I guess.
And would this be a funny matter? I think not. I think this is exactly what is happening. (Or going to happen).
And oh yeah… just like your debate that evolution somehow disproves a creator … knowing that the terrorists choose the most controversion time possible somehow disproves the prophesy of the end times.
The prophesy says that mankind will destroy himself … thats it. HOW we get to that point is irrelavant.
The only difference is that if we do destroy ouselves…. you believe we will be destroyed … I believe we will be saved. You can’t prove I am wrong until THAT day comes … and if that day never comes in our lifetime … then you can never prove I am wrong.
In fact … if you are right … you won’t be able to say “i told you so”. I however … will. And we can all laugh about this over a glass of whatever is being served in Heaven.
Look here …
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24127314/
Here are some highlights …
So … does this mean this is a problem for only the poorest people? Or so us folks who can afford an internet access bill fall into the catagory of people that this is “barely perceptible” too?
I wish I could do some more research … I would like to know at what rate “the worst in 17″ years becomes … 27, 87, 207, or 1907 years. Is it tomorrow? Next week? or by the end of summer?
How can people who this is barely perceptible to make that determination anyway?
Pluggedin,
This is out of context. I have never said anything to this regard.
I even wrote Principle 1 and 2 around this very concern, and it is the first post on the flood blog.
So, you do not “get that”, at least from me.
A specific god requires specific evidence. It’s that simple.
If you can justify faith in a specific god without the benefit of intense scrutiny, then hats off to you, and I wish you the best.
Just try not to drop any bombs on heathens in his name, okay? ; )
Jon said:
A specific god requires specific evidence. It’s that simple.
Requires specific evidence for YOU. It does not require comprehensive evidence for me to believe. The balance is faith for ME. Our requirements differ and that was my point.
If you can justify faith in a specific god without the benefit of intense scrutiny, then hats off to you, and I wish you the best.
Thank you and the best to you as well.
TF,
The title of the article says it all. Things were worse seventeen years ago. Even a fiscal layman could explain cyclical economics to you if they were so inclined.
I am not.
Just take this away: In every year, in every century, horrible things have occurred. It means NOTHING. Absolutely nothing.
And, again, you are so ethnocentric man. Look around the globe.
We’ve faced worse times than these. Far worse. The 1940s, when we could have easily walked right into atomic self-destruction. There were more of you in 1945 than in any time in recent history — the end is nigh! The end is nigh!
It wasn’t. We determine our own fate. Perhaps you do not see the correlation, and that’s why there will always be guys like RW to prey on your emotions, your time, and your wallet.
His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI has Landed.
He looked great for someone who is turning 81 tomorrow.
The President met him on the tarmac. The president respects the Pope very much because of their common dedication to respecting the dignity of life from the moment of conception to natural death.
So far, I have seen no signs of the DEVIL’S influence on the Pope.
Personally I think the devil is working together with JIMMA CARTER who is in the middle east HUGGING AND KISSING TERRORISTS!!!!
Tomorrow he will visit the WHITE HOUSE, 2nd time a Pope has ever done that. He then rides the Popemobile through the public. Then Vespers at the National Shrine, then addresses the Bishops.
I will be posting a POPE update everyday.
VIVA IL PAPA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did not say comprehensive. I said “specific” — and you are walking all over your specific evidence (i.e. The Bible) as well as your intellectual honesty.
Jack,
One could read that shaking hands with Bush is tantamount to making a pact with the devil, you know.. ; )
Bush respects the dignity of life SO much that he sends our sons and daughters into a useless war and has removed more money than any president in history from social reform — oh, and welcome to the new recession…
But other than that, at least he is anti-abortion.
But not pro-condom. On that bit, the Pope and Chimpy part ways.
Jon ….
You seem to have this unwavering “FAITH” that although things are bad .,.. and people are saying they are getting worse … that they will never … EVER .. get worse than they have ever been?
And then … even if they DO get worse than they ever have been … you’re first impulse is to say … “so what”?
Not saying you dont want to fix things … but in order to fix them you have to have an understanding of how they got that way. You simply do not believe in the concpet of EVIL…. um anymore. I still do. Sorry if that upsets you so much.
I mean … I hear your opitimism … I don’t want to knock that … but I simply do not see the return of Christ … the “CREATOR” coming to get rid of what our “optimism” alone has failed to do … as something “pessimistic”. Not at all.
Pope gunned down on US soil, not theres an event for the 17th
I can believe in anything I want regardless of any specific evidence at all if I choose. The key word there is “I”, Jon. Call it my freedom to believe without proof. Not your standard, I understand.
What about this is so difficult for you to understand. I actually think you do, but have the hardest time conceding a point. Fine. If you really don’t understand what I’m saying then I guess I’m just doing a piss-poor job of communicating it coherently and I’m sorry for that.
When people say that something get worse, it’s not always the natural disasters. I would say that there are moral deteriorations all over the world. For example, children getting more violent. of course, we always have bullies and sickos throughout the century; however, children were much more submissive 30 years ago compared to today.
We’ve been saying that atomic bombs have the ability to destroy the earth back then in 1945; however, we have the ability of destroying earth 40 times today when we could only destroy it once in 1945. What IF Weinland is a true prophet? Well, most of us would stil disregard him.
Have you ever asked questions to yourself such as what IF something of biblical proportion happens on the 17th? Are you ready?
Hi Michael,
Thanks for the kind words.
Perhaps you should dig up a dictionary and look up the terms “faith” and “understanding.” We (all) rely on the concepts of language and words, Michael. But the reliance is not ‘faith’. No one says, “Here’s a paper on the evolution of the ERV in great apes. Please just accept this as fact, despite not providing one SHRED of supporting evidence, and do so because I say, ‘Lo, every word in here is true!’”
It is not faith that assures me my TV will turn on when I press the magic button on my remote — it’s reason and understanding. And, likewise, it is not faith that leads me to believe in evolutionary theory, or for that matter postulates on dark matter — it is reason and an understanding of the scientific method. It is also reason based upon experiential evidence that is both testable and falsifiable. Religious experiences fail both of these in stellar fashion.
This same (tired) “atheists need faith too” argument has been soundly refuted elsewhere. I can point you to links if you like.
I honestly have no idea.
But, I can save your conjecturing from the standpoint of (a) a well-read layman’s view of evolution, although not by any means a scientist in the subject; and (b) a professional clinical nutritionist (my job), and a qualified expert in the field.
First, vegetables are not “appealing” — they simply are. Many humans have lived their entire lives without consuming vegetables. The Maasai, for example. It is against their religion. Yet they have (dirty word) evolved to not require the phytonutrients.
Second, vegetables were completely unavailable for at least seven months out of the year during our paleolithic period in many regions. Yet man survived. Many paleo nutritionist believe our taste for fruits and vegetables arose out of necessity on long hunts for food, as well as the ability to keep them over periods of time during climate shifts, migration periods, etc.
Finally, like all evolutionary creatures, we have both DNA and RNA transfer. RNA models suggest much of the information we perceived as “intuition”, such as a baby recognizing a face, or (although very weak) our “veggie leaning”, are transferred and passed down. We’re smart little learning machines.
Sorry to take the mystery out of that one… ; )
May I ask you a question? When is the last time you picked up a biology textbook?
This is not meant as a slam, but your understanding of what you’re protesting against is woefully weak. It would help to understand the principles behind evolutionary theory before discarding it, don’t you think?
The answer to this one is very simple: the principles of natural selection. Far too much to go into here, although I’m happy to refer you to thousands of articles. However, since we know brains have evolved over time in size and function, it stands to reason that our mental functions have also increased. So, may I ask why you believe our hearing and eyesight has ‘not’ changed significantly over the past two million or so years?
And you know this how?
Magic powers? Divine revelation?
Evidence that says “my belief demands faith” is no evidence at all.
We’re back to biology textbooks again. Read.
But, for the record, the lowly amoeba contains the most amount of genetic material BY FAR — including humans.
Do you think apes have fun, get sad, experience loss or have interest? If you do not, you have not read Jane Goodall.
The rest is utter conjecture base on how you see the world, and based wholly on a lack of understanding, even at a high school level, of evolutionary biology and natural selection.
Except for that last line — and it’s one I completely agree with. Of COURSE there is a “remote possibility” of a higher power. I have never suggested otherwise. What I do maintain is that every “specific” higher power presents specific evidence. Otherwise you would never know what to call it, what it’s nature was like, etc. The Bible is one such book of ‘evidence’ — and as a former minister, I find it as woefully lacking as most creationists’ take on evolution.
Believe what you want to believe, by all means. I just urge you to establish the reasons why — or, at bare minimum, understand what you choose to reject before doing so.
Borat,
Please read the 20 or so posts on Revelation. Then read Revelation 22:10. Then make that fit into the 21st century.
Good luck.
And yes, the 17th is just 2 days shy. According to Weinland, we’ll have 2 more nights to enjoy our weiners with beers.
I am actually nervous but full of excitement to see what will happen. I’m eager to see if Weinland is true or if he is false. And yes, I know all about those increasing thunders, but let’s face it, if those thunders are already biblical catastrophe on March 18th, God has to do something much more destructive on april 17th just to prove that the end time is near. I would say that the reason of why there was no biblical catastrophe on March 18 is that if there was a major catastrophe, most of us would already be dead by now, what’s the point of april 17th then? when April 17th comes and a biblical chaos happens, you would have to make a decision pretty soon.
It’s just 2 days away folks. who would like to go to Walmart to stock all those clam chowder soup loaded with sodium?
Plugged,
Of course man. By all means. Believe whatever you wish — no one here is a member of the Belief Police. ; )
I merely maintain that such belief is irrational, no more so than the belief in a magical candy land on the other side of Pluto.
But, whatever makes you a better person bro!
Borat said,
Yes, and we’d all love for that to happen. Nothing like a good disaster to stir up the love of the children, eh?
I suggest we take the same approach with our disobedient children and ramsack their entire living quarters with a bulldozer. That’ll show ‘em.
Damn kids with their…damn theories of evolution and…their…damn hippie music…
Jon,
The book of revelation was written around 70AD correct? Some part of Revelations talk about the destruction of the world by human hands. How could such massive destructions described in revelations take place around 70AD? Obviously Roman soldiers only carried spears, swords and axes; it would take 1000 soldiers hours to bring down a building with those things. Today, it would take less than 1 hour for global annihilation. So God was saying that “the time is at hand” but we simply didn’t have the technology and number of people (ie. 200 million soldiers) to fulfill this prophecy in 70AD. But now we do. That is my interpretation of the Bible and I am aware that you may have your interpretation. From your posts, I believe that you are a man of intelligence, but I’m sorry Jon, God always grants knowledge and wisdom to those who are not considered intelligent by human standards.
With the clock running out, we’re filling threads faster and faster until… what?
Please continue discussion here.