The following is provided as a service to those searching the web for information on these guys, and who might be inclined to risk a few IQ points interacting with them. It is an e-mail exchange I recently had with Victor Hafichuk and Paul Cohen, two apparently inseparable buddies with beards who sell organic food and quack health gadgets, and also happen to think they, among all Christians, have been appointed by God (scroll to the bottom of that link for the money shot) and have the One True way of looking at things. Their web site includes a shit list of other Christians they’ve had arguments with. There is no shortage of Christian sites attacking their theology. Apparently they’ve been sending out these e-mails for years, trolling for converts. I think I attracted these fleas because I’ve written about fringe Christianity here and elsewhere. But as you probably know, I’m no Christian, and I quickly gathered that this is just more evidence of Christianity’s chronic auto-immune disease of internecine conflict. And as you’ll see, I was also in no mood to argue.
In Elijah’s day, he slew 450 prophets, “solid citizens” and respected men of society right up to royalty, just like Herbert W., but Elijah was only one against so many, besides priests of Ashtoreth. We are few against many. We know Elijah’s humility.
Humility? What is humility? Do you know, Robert? What does one who, because of being deceived by a prophet of Baal, discredits his Maker (the Author and Promoter of humility) know about humility?
But know this, that those 450 prophets slew many spiritually before Elijah put them away. You are a casualty of a prophet of Baal.
Yes. Humility is: “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”
It is interesting that while you call yourself an atheist, you quote Jesus Christ, Who testified of His Father. The problem is that, as Jesus said, when you deny the Father, you deny the Son and vice versa. Why then would you quote those words? And when you quote them, do you really know what their meaning is? Read that article and let me know.
One who denies God, denies himself, as one made by God. He spirals downward to abject darkness and leaves nothing for himself. He ends up without understanding altogether. As Solomon said:
“Respect and obey the LORD! This is the beginning of knowledge. Only a fool rejects wisdom and good advice” (Proverbs 1:7 CEV).
You quote Jesus? I will quote Him:
“The thief does not come except to steal and to kill and to destroy. I have come so that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep” (John 10:10-11 MKJV).
Why let the thief take it all and bring you to nothing by his false apostles? Why not believe God? Why not accept culpability for your deception, disillusionment and woes and receive the Truth? This is not about Armstrong, or Weinland, or Meredith, or Tkach…it is about you.
[Much additional blathering snipped.]
No. To you it means recognizing oneself to be guilty of sin. The Bible you say you believe says you are guilty of sin. Therefore, you should not be condemning others (“casting stones.”)
I, on the other hand, find the Bible to be not the work of a deity but of men, so I am only held to the things in it I find wise. I do not believe in your God, so I also do not believe in your concept of sin. In fact, I find it to be both laughable and repugnant. And I understand that scripture differently. Here is my own paraphrase: “In all situations (but particularly negative ones) humbly acknowledge your contribution. Blaming others is unconstructive.”
I did not read your article— I do not have the time. But I can gather from the title that it points out that the God you believe in not only blesses, but also condemns. This is true: your God is a homunculus that can be made to do anything anyone wishes in the entire spectrum from loving to vile. Truly, your God is the best and worst of the humans that created him.
There is some wisdom on the Bible, and I accept wisdom where I find it. That doesn’t mean I accept the broad metaphysical propositions that Christians accept. There is also wisdom in the Qu’ran, Bhagavad Gita, and Tao Te Ching. I quote the Bible to you because you know the Bible.
Unfortunately, you don’t know wisdom. Or humility
I have a recommendation of reading for you: “The Irrational Atheist” by Vox Day. If you haven’t heard of it, you will, or if you don’t, you lead a very sheltered existence or are willfully ignorant. If you don’t have time for reading it, as you say of our writings, you don’t have time to eat or sleep. So do as you please, and let me know periodically or just a few years down the road how you fare, if you ever have the time or opportunity to do so. You can check in on us and we can compare notes.
Robert, Paul Cohen here. [See? They really are Siamese twins!] According to your definition of Jesus’ words, there is no hubris coming from us. We have had no part in the Armstrong debacle and its messy aftermath, or in any of the wrongs perpetrated by others we expose. The Lord has taken us right out of all pretentious, man made religion. There is no hypocrisy in what we say.
Furthermore, we are not, as you presume, condemning others by pointing out the lies they believe and propagate. They only condemn themselves by continuing in those things after hearing the truth. We are, in fact, contributing to a positive resolution of the matter because we point to the Way out.
You, on the other hand, just sit there making unconstructive statements and judgments of us, adding to your own bitterness. Any alleged humility you might show by admitting you were once contributing to religious deception (which we are not hearing) is negated by your present cynicism and lack of forgiveness for those who took you for a ride. You have not left Armstrong at all; he still holds you prisoner – a disillusioned and ungrateful one, but one nevertheless.
You are a hypocrite, taking us to task on humility for exposing false prophets when you say you do the same thing:
“I’d like to put an invitation out to interested readers of this blog to journey over to my personal blog, where I have recently called out a number of modern false prophets.” [Link to where I wrote that.]
Or are you telling us that you call out false prophets without any truth involved? You are not making any sense, Robert.
In your present condition of indignant pride, you have no idea at all what you are talking about when it comes to the application of spiritual truth. You cannot properly judge Jesus’ words, or ours. Someday you will know this and readily admit it. We have not spoken to you in vain.
Summarize for me the most impressive argument it gives against atheism, and if I find it compelling, I will read the book. If I don’t, then I’m sure nothing else the book has to say will be worthwhile either. [Predictably, no response to this.]
And exactly when shall we compare notes? And exactly what do you expect to see? Yes, give me something specific: something that I can take to the world if it doesn’t happen the way you thought at say: “See, here is yet another man who claimed to be able to speak for God.” Go ahead: curse or bless, I care not which, but put it in writing, and make it testable— or shut up.
I was not speaking of prophecy.
I could do the former of what you request, however, judging by your “wisdom” and “humility,” I choose the latter – to shut up. I’m done.
Oh, then your remarks about letting you know “periodically or just a few years down the road how you fare,” were just making chitchat? Made for no reason? Just trying to be buddies?
You were done before you started with me, Victor. You are just one more two-bit, hate-filled preacher with yet another “one truth”, a web site to put it on, and delusions of grandeur. Have a nice life.
Update! The hateful threats continue here.