Ironwolf

Robert,

Whether you score a 6 or a 60, without justification you have played the part of an antagonistic, caustic adversary. In other words, in the vernacular of our day, you are acting like an asshole. We don’t need a test to prove that. The evidence is right here in our correspondence.

Yes, I did prophesy that God would require respect and humility from you. That is not an evil thing or remotely resembling a curse. On the contrary, it is a very good thing. You are the one who made it a “curse” about your tongue. What you are telling us is that you would rather lose your tongue than use it for wholesome purposes; you would have God remove it first. We say, “So be it.”

I did say, “Mark your calendar.” All that meant was to note the time when you determinedly set your face towards destruction. And, no, I did not expect you to do this, or to understand. I also prophesied that when all is said and done, which will not take long, you will know that you have been dealing with the Real Thing; God is with us.

I said it will not go well for you. It can’t, not with the way you conduct yourself. The law of reaping and sowing has not been repealed. That is the truth, which does not require a prophet to pronounce.

Furthermore, even before you spoke up about your challenge of a week to fulfill the curse you determined on yourself, I prayed to God that He would give you to ask of Him what you should have for a judgment. I had no way of knowing you would actually do such a thing. But there you were, the very next day, asking that God would silence your tongue, and giving Him a week deadline to do so.

He has not. So what are you to make of this? Obviously to you it is reason to celebrate and ridicule us all the more. No doubt you will do the same with this letter. But we ask you to publish it. We certainly will. We have nothing to hide or fear.

Here is what I see: God is longsuffering, which fools mistake for non-existence.

We will now see what He does, and, as I said before, it won’t be long. It will also be on record, whether at your site or ours or both, for all to see and to fear.

Paul

Paul,

I’ve seen some pretty sad attempts at spin by false prophets in my day, but this is certainly one of the most condensed, steaming piles of pitiful backpedaling I’ve ever encountered. A straightforward reading of your earlier condemnatory statements is that you were indeed pronouncing a divine curse upon my tongue and/or my life, to be carried out in short order: divine poetic justice meted to an insolent reprobate. It evokes all the certainty and immediacy of the judgement pronounce upon Ananias and Sapphira— I’m sure it’s one of your favorites. In fact I just checked: A quick search reveals that no less than 27 pages of your site mention the story— one of the most vile tools of extortion antiquity has given us, and still in active use today by you and your ilk.

And, had perchance some grievous harm befallen me during my circumscribed “curse week,” is any reader of these words stupid enough to think that you would not now be trumpeting my downfall as an example of your divine authority?

But denied that pleasure, you now attempt to retroactively transmute your leaden threats into gilded, nuanced warnings to a lost child— manifestations of divine love, but still with the amorphous-yet-hateful “it won’t be long” barb attached. I conclude that you are either extremely poor con men, or else earnest but so tone deaf in the art of human communication that you simply don’t realize how clownish such statements make you look. You should do yourselves a favor, and “remain silent to be thought a fool, rather than in speaking remove all doubt.” Indeed the Bible says God chooses the foolish, and certainly there is a correlation, but I propose you consider the converse: the foolish choose God. And the Most Foolish give themselves over so completely to this choice that they end up believing they speak for God— in effect, they become their conception of God. But the punch line soaring over your head is that you are not unique: you are just another in a long and growing line of the “touched” I have personally encountered.

Recall that it is you who originally contacted me, with an unsolicited and impersonal message about another false prophet, Ron Weinland— one of your competition for that hot commodity, the credulous. Many of us call that sort of contact “spam,” and consider it rude from the outset, but I suppose you never picked up on that bit of etiquette before you found the Send button. The links in your spam lead to your site where you pronounce yourselves not merely humble seekers after truth, but in sole and solid possession of “The Path Of Truth.” Just as Ron Weinland (“God’s Final Witness”) does and just as Herbert Armstrong (“The Plain Truth,” and “Mystery of the Ages”) did. Your web site portrays two men on the same hubristic path that Armstrong and Weinland have trod. You are no better than they are, and you are just as deserving of an entreaty to humility, which is exactly what my one-line reply to your spam contained. No, my little note wasn’t perfectly humble, but neither are spammers, or the web sites of spammers (such as yours.)

And what sort of reply did my entreaty receive? The most arrogant possible: a clear statement that you consider yourself equal to the old-testament prophets: that your humility is “Elijah’s humility.” You went on to pronounce me a “casualty of a prophet of Baal” (presumably you mean Armstrong) in your very first reply. But you do not know who I am; you do not know what good I do in the world, and you would reflexively deny it if I told you. You do not know me at all.

You went on to challenge me on my understanding of humility and I tried to use an example you would understand, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” Did you say, “Yes, that is humility?” No, that’s not Elijah’s style. You didn’t even allow that it applied to you, as apparently your invisible friend has told you you’re perfect enough to go ahead and throw stones. You then attempted to deny me the privilege of quoting your own Bible back to you, and when I explained my understanding of that scripture more fully, you flip-flopped and asserted that your behavior accords with my interpretation of those words of Jesus. Thanks for granting some validity to my humanistic interpretation of scripture, although I doubt that was your intention.

I’ll leave you with another, more secular take on humility. Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion, and quite likely our day’s most renowned atheist, entitled the core chapter of his book, “Why There is Almost Certainly No God.” Notice the qualifier there, “almost?” That is humility in action. That is an acknowledgement that there is room for doubt, even against the asymptote of certainty. That willingness to be wrong is one of the hallmarks of true science, and sadly, it is something you will probably never understand. Do you even dare to think the words, “There is almost certainly a God?” Unlike you, I make no claims to divine knowledge. With Dawkins, I think there is almost certainly no god, and I do so based upon the evidence I have encountered so far. If I ever receive sufficient evidence to change my mind on that matter, I will. Can you even conceive of evidence that would cause you to become an unbeliever? I freely admit I lack humility in at least one thing: I am proud of my ability to change my mind when warranted. After all, I already did once: I was a believer, and now I am not. No doubt you will gloat that I will change my mind again soon and become your brand of believer, but I warn you again against counting your chickens prematurely— a behavior to which you seem rather prone.

You can have your “Elijah’s humility”— that of your role-model slayer of those who believe differently. I’ll stick with Dawkins’ humility, thanks— but even Jesus’ humility seems preferable, when I can muster it.

See (no, I don’t suppose you do), it is you who do not understand the law of sowing and reaping: you have sewn the hot wind of arrogance from your very first piece of spam, and you have reaped the whirlwind of my words that ridicule you and reveal you as the bloodthirsty frauds you are— words that will stay on the Internet as long as it is within my power to keep them there. You think my words are to your advantage? Then publish all of our exchanges— unedited and in their entirety— on your web site, just as I have done so on my blog. I look forward to your visitors reading them there and making up their own minds as to the meaning and worth of our exchanges. If you feel really brave you will include a link back to me, as I have linked to you. But I do wonder whether you will publish them: you are obviously doing profitable business making up peoples’ minds for them.

In the teeming pond that is my life, you are a fascinating microbe, but other interests now call to me. Goodbye.

Robert

P.S. *plonk*

Robert,

How is your tongue, now that your specified week is over?

In “The Irrational Atheist,” the author describes you in a section on the intelligent and educated “High Church Atheist,” disclosing this interesting information:

Paul Cohen
www.thepathoftruth.com

Paul,

So nice to hear of your concern for my health. I assure you, my tongue is just fine— in fact, today it got quite a workout! I spent several hours with one of my consulting clients (a Fortune 100 company that hires me to teach them about how to apply logical thinking processes more effectively within their organization) then drove across Los Angeles to the theatre where I had my stage debut as the fire-and-brimstone Reverend Jeremiah Brown in a new stage production of Inherit the Wind (based on the famous Scopes Monkey Trial.) I can tell you, performing in the role of a southern preacher who ends up damning his daughter to hell sure brought back memories of your little curse— and the little god whose authority you claim.

Now, a couple messages back you recommended I read “The Irrational Atheist” by Vox Day. And as I am a busy man, I challenged you to state the best argument against atheism from the book, and that if I found it compelling I would read the book. And here I was all this time thinking you had simply ignored my challenge (just as you’ve ignored my repeated calls for you to put some teeth into your juju curse by getting specific about the time frame at least.) In reality you were actually waiting— cat-like— to pounce with “evidence” from Vox Day’s book that atheists aren’t autistic! Yep, the average of the self-selected cohort of atheists from your unnamed site, while a little higher than “normal” doesn’t actually come close to the magic 32-point level of Asperger Syndrome, itself an extremely mild form of autism which approximately 78,000 people live with in the U.S. alone (some estimates are much higher.) And if “normal” people have an average score of 16.5, then what does that make me? See, I found and took the test you mention. It is called the Autism Spectrum Quotient, and was reprinted in Wired Magazine in 2001 as a sidebar to an article called The Geek Syndrome. (Use the manual scoring key at the bottom of the test if you choose to take it yourself— their automatic scoring script is broken.)

So how did I, someone Vox Day (and you, oh possessor of God’s Wisdom) pegs as a “High Church Atheist” score? I got a 6. That’s right: 10 points “less autistic” than “normal.” (I suppose you’re “normal” Paul? How about “Vox Day”, author of “The Irrational Atheist?” Is he as “normal” as his pen name?)

So touché, Sherlock. If that’s the best this book has to offer against atheism, I conclude that it really doesn’t deserve any more of my time.

“There is no God. Because I’m an asshole.” That’s funny. Actually, the reason I don’t believe in God is that if he existed, he wouldn’t let assholes like you speak for him.

Robert

Robert, Paul Cohen here.

We have dealt with many religious vipers. You have proven yourself to be just another of the brood by your reactions here, no different than those you thought to leave behind, except you are less restrained in expression because not bound by a false “Christian” front. You no longer have the need to justify yourself as righteous, so you don’t give a damn what you say to whom.

There is nothing, however, in what we have said or done towards you that is worthy of your derisive responses. On the contrary, we have been straightforward with you, something you prize in yourself, but for which you hypocritically despise us. We are not railing on you or condemning you, and have not said anything to you except what is pertinent and true.

Since you have despised all decent, wholesome conversation, and have thrown caution to the wind regarding the wisdom of a responsible, respectful tongue, your Maker will therefore require it of you.

You are not dealing with more religious phonies here. We know what we are talking about. What you have replied to Victor, you have said to God. In other words, you have spit in His face. Saying it will not go well for you is putting it mildly. Mark your calendar, and these words. It will not take long before you know the truth of them.

Paul,

Thank you for the entertaining response. My blog readers are already enjoying our adventures together, and I’m sure they’ll get a kick out of this turn of events.

Now, since you’ve started pronouncing voodoo curses upon those you despise, let’s get down to specifics: exactly when shall my maker “require my tongue?” You’ve said I should mark my calendar, but how convenient for you that you don’t provide a date. Shall I mark every single day from now to eternity as “Could die today?” Seems a little tautological. So, in order for your curse to have any remote amount of credibility, you really should put a time frame on it. If I die of mouth cancer 30 years from now would that count? And if pronouncing such a curse on me isn’t prophecy, then what is?

Or perhaps you mean for me to set my own deadline, since your God’s obviously shy about setting dates himself? How about this: if a week goes by and it “goes well for me,” and I don’t “lose my tongue” in some ghoulishly ironic way, let’s say I’ve beaten your little curse, shall we? After that, the board is again open for the many other curses placed upon me by God’s numerous other witch doctors who have prior claims.

I laugh. You are worse than false prophets. You are pious frauds who prey on others’ fears. Unfortunately for you, I not only don’t believe in your imaginary friend, I don’t believe in magic spells either. But I do have something you don’t that is far more powerful: public ridicule. The whole world is now watching: everyone who searches for your names will see our exchanges and deride you and Victor for the pitiful charlatans you are. Many who read your Path Of Truth web site will search for more information, find these pages, and turn away— relieved that they didn’t go anywhere near you. Even your own followers will find these pages and wonder where your power is. Some of them may even (horrors) learn to think for themselves.

Welcome to the 21st century, and try not to bang your head on it any harder than you already have, OK?

Robert

Ronald Weinland of “The Church of God – Preparing for the Kingdom of God” has predicted a nuclear explosion in the United States by July 16th, 2008; or, if this doesn’t happen, he will declare himself a false prophet. You may already know or suspect that he is a false prophet, but keep in mind that the fruit does not fall far from the tree. Weinland was spawned by another false prophet, Herbert W. Armstrong. In this writing we will show you how and why these men, while espousing some true doctrines, lead many in error.

Ronald Weinland – Son of Armstrong

Paul Cohen

www.thepathoftruth.com

“The Path of Truth.” Heh. You’d think after exposing so many false prophets you’d have a little more humility.

Robert

Robert,

In Elijah’s day, he slew 450 prophets, “solid citizens” and respected men of society right up to royalty, just like Herbert W., but Elijah was only one against so many, besides priests of Ashtoreth. We are few against many. We know Elijah’s humility.

Humility? What is humility? Do you know, Robert? What does one who, because of being deceived by a prophet of Baal, discredits his Maker (the Author and Promoter of humility) know about humility?

But know this, that those 450 prophets slew many spiritually before Elijah put them away. You are a casualty of a prophet of Baal.

Victor Hafichuk

Yes. Humility is: “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”

Robert

“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” Robert, presumably this means recognizing oneself to be guilty of sin. So what does that mean or how does it apply to me? Read Does God Speak Only Gentle Words? and tell me how you apply your understanding to the examples in the writing, including that of the One you quote. I’d like to know.

It is interesting that while you call yourself an atheist, you quote Jesus Christ, Who testified of His Father. The problem is that, as Jesus said, when you deny the Father, you deny the Son and vice versa. Why then would you quote those words? And when you quote them, do you really know what their meaning is? Read that article and let me know.

One who denies God, denies himself, as one made by God. He spirals downward to abject darkness and leaves nothing for himself. He ends up without understanding altogether. As Solomon said:

“Respect and obey the LORD! This is the beginning of knowledge. Only a fool rejects wisdom and good advice” (Proverbs 1:7 CEV).

You quote Jesus? I will quote Him:

“The thief does not come except to steal and to kill and to destroy. I have come so that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep” (John 10:10-11 MKJV).

Why let the thief take it all and bring you to nothing by his false apostles? Why not believe God? Why not accept culpability for your deception, disillusionment and woes and receive the Truth? This is not about Armstrong, or Weinland, or Meredith, or Tkach…it is about you.

[Much additional blathering snipped.]

No. To you it means recognizing oneself to be guilty of sin. The Bible you say you believe says you are guilty of sin. Therefore, you should not be condemning others (“casting stones.”)

I, on the other hand, find the Bible to be not the work of a deity but of men, so I am only held to the things in it I find wise. I do not believe in your God, so I also do not believe in your concept of sin. In fact, I find it to be both laughable and repugnant. And I understand that scripture differently. Here is my own paraphrase: “In all situations (but particularly negative ones) humbly acknowledge your contribution. Blaming others is unconstructive.”

I did not read your article— I do not have the time. But I can gather from the title that it points out that the God you believe in not only blesses, but also condemns. This is true: your God is a homunculus that can be made to do anything anyone wishes in the entire spectrum from loving to vile. Truly, your God is the best and worst of the humans that created him.

There is some wisdom on the Bible, and I accept wisdom where I find it. That doesn’t mean I accept the broad metaphysical propositions that Christians accept. There is also wisdom in the Qu’ran, Bhagavad Gita, and Tao Te Ching. I quote the Bible to you because you know the Bible.

Unfortunately, you don’t know wisdom. Or humility

Robert

And where do you think wisdom and humility originated, Robert? From a rock, which came from some gases, which came from some spark to set them off, which came from…?

I have a recommendation of reading for you: “The Irrational Atheist” by Vox Day. If you haven’t heard of it, you will, or if you don’t, you lead a very sheltered existence or are willfully ignorant. If you don’t have time for reading it, as you say of our writings, you don’t have time to eat or sleep. So do as you please, and let me know periodically or just a few years down the road how you fare, if you ever have the time or opportunity to do so. You can check in on us and we can compare notes.

Robert, Paul Cohen here. [See? They really are Siamese twins!] According to your definition of Jesus’ words, there is no hubris coming from us. We have had no part in the Armstrong debacle and its messy aftermath, or in any of the wrongs perpetrated by others we expose. The Lord has taken us right out of all pretentious, man made religion. There is no hypocrisy in what we say.

Furthermore, we are not, as you presume, condemning others by pointing out the lies they believe and propagate. They only condemn themselves by continuing in those things after hearing the truth. We are, in fact, contributing to a positive resolution of the matter because we point to the Way out.

You, on the other hand, just sit there making unconstructive statements and judgments of us, adding to your own bitterness. Any alleged humility you might show by admitting you were once contributing to religious deception (which we are not hearing) is negated by your present cynicism and lack of forgiveness for those who took you for a ride. You have not left Armstrong at all; he still holds you prisoner – a disillusioned and ungrateful one, but one nevertheless.

You are a hypocrite, taking us to task on humility for exposing false prophets when you say you do the same thing:

“I’d like to put an invitation out to interested readers of this blog to journey over to my personal blog, where I have recently called out a number of modern false prophets.” [Link to where I wrote that.]

Or are you telling us that you call out false prophets without any truth involved? You are not making any sense, Robert.

In your present condition of indignant pride, you have no idea at all what you are talking about when it comes to the application of spiritual truth. You cannot properly judge Jesus’ words, or ours. Someday you will know this and readily admit it. We have not spoken to you in vain.

Summarize for me the most impressive argument it gives against atheism, and if I find it compelling, I will read the book. If I don’t, then I’m sure nothing else the book has to say will be worthwhile either. [Predictably, no response to this.]

And exactly when shall we compare notes? And exactly what do you expect to see? Yes, give me something specific: something that I can take to the world if it doesn’t happen the way you thought at say: “See, here is yet another man who claimed to be able to speak for God.” Go ahead: curse or bless, I care not which, but put it in writing, and make it testable— or shut up.

Robert

Hi Robert,

I was not speaking of prophecy.

I could do the former of what you request, however, judging by your “wisdom” and “humility,” I choose the latter – to shut up. I’m done.

Hi Robert,

Oh, then your remarks about letting you know “periodically or just a few years down the road how you fare,” were just making chitchat? Made for no reason? Just trying to be buddies?

Heh.

You were done before you started with me, Victor. You are just one more two-bit, hate-filled preacher with yet another “one truth”, a web site to put it on, and delusions of grandeur. Have a nice life.

Robert