Christine
Hello all;
I’d like to ask for a little advice. I was born and raised in the WCG. Inevitable result: I am completely unable to understand why anyone, ever, would choose to be part of any church.
This causes problems.
Baffled and mildly disgusted at any mention of faith, I “shut down” when the subject is even hinted at in passing, and lose some respect for the speaker. I just can’t get past my knee-jerk dismissal long enough to learn about their beliefs and accept them.
So now for the question: How can I learn to appreciate the value of other peoples’ religions? It upsets me that I can’t have a conversation with friends without sneering whenever they say “pray”.
Clearly plenty of people here have gone from loyalty to WCG, to disdain for all religion, to acceptance. Any hints and resources on how to fast-forward to acceptance?
Thanks for reading.
Christine.
Queensland, Australia.
May 12th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Christine,
You might imagine that as a minister’s wife, three-year AC student and all that goes with that, I had the same struggle. To some extent I still do but not because of WCG. I don’t understand how anyone could give their brains to any such organization because I find true spirituality to be a very individual thing and not to be found in a group setting. That said, it seems that some people find great solace and even direction in life from “prayer” and church attendance and if it works for them, so be it. It would seem that there are strata of understanding, spirituality and sensitivity to anything that might be called metaphysical. What I find striking is that those who seem to find an individual path to spirituality have great kinship that comes from very similar experiences, landmarks, feelings, understandings and wisdom, no matter the path they tread. In fact, I am not sure that each path is not an individual one and it is this that gives meaning and credence to the experience. For the others, there is organization, conformity and that motivational factor of Fear, as well as the absolute belief that their shared path is the ONLY path, based on the authority of someone outside themselves.
Is there value in other peoples’ religions? For me, the answer is no except as a social tool. But if that is its only function, it often serves a valuable role. Accept yourself and your own path, believe in it and with all humility, and you will have found the fast track to acceptance of others. At least, that is what has worked for me. Because, Christine, no matter how dogmatic some may be in their religious or non-religious assertions, there is absolutely no way we can know for sure or prove anything one way or the other. So follow your heart, follow your bliss, follow your understanding and the rest will take care of itself (and avoid dogmatic people).
May 14th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Dear Christine,
Thank you for writing something that is part of my story, and it hasn’t been that long ago that I was in your same shoes. I live in a very conservative and ‘bible-beltish’ part of Texas. There are people here I sometimes think of as Jesus-ites. Anything in the name of Jesus regardless of what it is. It has been very difficult for me at times to even be around these people. The near-fanaticism of some of these people has, at times, felt threatening. And it was actually a key reason why I resigned from my previous place of employment. Christianity here is linked to patriotism and conservative family ‘values’ and opposes anything not in their category of what ‘Christian America’ is “supposed” to be about. Some people here have a very clear image of what Americans and Christians “should” be. Sometimes it comes across to me as near-fascism. That sounds extreme, but it’s how I see it.
But there are people here who still attend church and yet do not seem to be so bogged down in dogma. They are truly kind and wonderful people. For them, maybe their church feeds a part of their spirit that is about personal growth and not pressing their beliefs on others. I don’t know. I think I try to meet a person on his or her terms, whether they subscribe to a particular religion or not. And if someone wants to pray for me, then fine. I tell them thank you and leave it there. It is their hearts I am trying to look at, and usually, you can tell if someone is sincere or if they’re just trying to blow religious smoke. If it’s the latter, then you have my permission to excuse yourself and walk away. If it’s the former, then maybe take a small step to see beyond the person’s religion and see the person. I don’t want to sound like I’m giving advice. I’m just trying to remember how I handled the similar situations you mentioned and pass it on.
You stated that you want a ‘fast-forward to acceptance’ of other people’s religions. I’m not sure there is such a thing. I believe it takes time and patience, particularly with yourself. I think some people still cling to their religions because they are convinced of the ’salvation’ message some religions have to offer. And for some people, there seems to be that old message that we are all in need of being saved from something. I was once there myself. And some people are just all about their church and their religion, and that’s perfectly fine for them. Feel some empathy toward them, if that helps. You saw the light, so to speak, and now you are free to see the world in whatever way you see fit. And what a great gift. You can write the ending to your own story, as Mr. McNally told me.
Ms. Carol Richter in the previous post to you said it wonderfully: “Follow your heart, follow your bliss.” Give others the gift to follow their own path. None of us can really know where a person is in his or her own development. Let others pray, if that pleases them. I can relate to you so much, and it is all still a process with me. I have days when I can’t even stand the word ‘religion’ to cross my mind. And there are other days where religion is not threatening much at all.
Take your time. Be patient with yourself. Allow that time is healing your wounds. I suspect you’re doing better at this than you give yourself credit.
Most sincerely,
Joseph
Amarillo, Texas
May 16th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
My advice will not work for the majority however this is how I got over the 18 years I was in the cult.
I became a alcohol and drug adict.
After I hit rock bottom for the second time I gave up on anything that is supposed to make me feel better except for exercise. I work out until I feel like passing out, then I exercise some more. Nothing else has helped me. Bottom line for me is to get so tired from exercising that I can think of nothing else but rest.
Thats how I got through my pain and mybe it will help you.
FYI it has been over twenty years since I left the cult and I have never looked back.
May 17th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Can’t recommend trying the alcohol and drug route. That’s just replacing escaping reality through religion with substances that cloud the mind. Basically the same process and result. Many of my former friends and associates have never kicked the habit. They still cling to some panacea they are convinced is the final answer to everything.
It took me a long time, but I finally replaced the blind faith I used to rely on with mental clarity and reason. Life is for learning through experience. Be patient and let the healing process take its course. You’ll come out stronger, wiser and mor tolerant. You can see more by bringing up my original entry on this site several years back.
June 17th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
I get how you’re feeling. I was a member of WWCG for many years, went to youth groups and summer church camps and all that. When I was young I was okay with it because to me it was like bedtime stories, but as I grew older it became harder and harder to cope because I knew I didn’t believe and I couldn’t force myself to believe so I lied about it to keep my family happy. When I was 16 I went through a phase where I tried so hard to believe in it all but I just couldn’t and I couldn’t lie anymore, so I told my family that I was an atheist.
My father was pissed and immediately attacked my non-belief so I countered with “Religion is a crutch for the weak and I’m not weak.” After that I was very open about my non-belief and would at times go out of my way to attack others ideas. To me the whole idea was ridiculous and when someone would incredulously ask “So you don’t believe in God at all?” I would reply ” Yup. I also don’t believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, believe it or not.”
As I’ve grown older and a bit more tactful I’ve come to realize that my first assumptions were right, religion is a crutch for the weak. But I also know that some people need that crutch to get on from day to day, and for me to attack them and make them feel small for those ideas goes against my own beliefs, that any minute could be someone’s last and do I really want to be responsible for possibly making someones last moments in existence crap? Not I. So if I find myself in a religious discussion I’ll slip in some info that eats away at some of prejudices that the bible has created, like the mistreatment of homosexuals and the fear of the occult, but I tend to stay away from telling people how idiotic I think they are for believing archaic superstition.
It also helps if you throw some of their own beloved verses at them. For instance if someone says that they’re going to pray to God for recovery from an illness I’ll say “God helps those who help themselves” (actually a quote from Ben Franklin and not even in the bible at all, but how many Christians really read their bible lol) and tell them to do some research on how to make themselves better.
July 22nd, 2009 at 9:28 am
I know! I have exactly the same problem. I continually have to bite back sarcastic comments when confronted with people’s faith. Maybe part of our attitude stems from the fact that we feel a bit stupid that we didn’t see through the WCG sooner. It took me 35 years! I know I was brainwashed but can’t get rid of the suspicion that ‘I should have known’ even though I entered the church through my parents. All you can do is bite back the ‘enlightening’ comment realising it is useless to say anything. Remember what you previously thought of atheists/agnostics. I felt patronisingly sorry for the ‘poor lost souls’. I don’t want to be judgemental any more – far easier said than done but we end up being hypocrites if we fall into the same trap as before. As said above, only time will help, until then unfortunately you’ll have to squirm with frustration. At least you know you’re not alone by any means!!
August 30th, 2009 at 7:09 am
I guess I’m at the age now that I am better able to “live and let live”. I don’t care about organized religion at all, and I don’t want to deal with it anymore (and I did try the Catholic church after I started missing a spiritual connection about 10 years after leaving the WCG). But I do understand other people’s need for a “church” or “religion”. I don’t agree with it, but I can allow them to have it without going crazy. Although, I will be honest, I think Islam is a very destructive religion and a lot of crazy people gravitate towards it. Talk about controlling people!!!!
Do I believe in God? Yes, I have to say I do. Do I pray? Yes, I do…..but at home, in private or in my head, but I never, ever say anything about it to others and I cant’ stand it when people try to shove religion, God, or anything else down my throat. And it’s not really because I don’t believe in God…it’s because I have real issues with authority or being “told” what to do or being “manulipated” in anyway. I get stubborn and either fight back or run as fast as I can (usually I fight first! lol).
I hate, hate, hate what the WCG did to me, my family and my views on life (you can see my posts when you scroll down). I absolutely am rebellious now, and probably always will be, when people try to control me in any way. I have an instantaneous knee jerk reaction when anyone tries it. Makes me crazy! lol…..and I do mean madder than a hornet. I won’t put up with it, not for a second.
Thankfully I never turned to drugs or alcohol, but that doesn’t mean I wasn’t as messed up as everyone else in this blog. I channel a lot of it now into writing, which has been good for me in so many ways.
It will always color my life. There is no getting away from that. It’s made me who I am today. Do I wish it were different? I don’t know, to be honest…..I’m ok with the person I am today. I like myself a lot more than I used to. Would I if I hadn’t been raised in the WCG? Would I be who I am? Would I be writing and would I be “me”? I will never know the answer to that. But today, I am ok with who I am and where I’m still going.
Sure, I would never wish this on anyone else, and thankfully have been able to protect my daughter from crap like this. But to be honest…would my eyes be as open as they are now, would I have the views I have now, without my past? I doubt it. I think I am a better person NOW than I would have been without the WCG…..if you get my meaning. I have my eyes more open to things and the world, I view things with more honestity than I would have, and I am not so easy to fool as I might have been without my past.
I believe each of us has to find peace, our inner resolve and our emotional base in their own way. Others can’t tell you how to do that, only you can. Knowing others are out there, you are not the only one, helps a lot, in my opinion. You are not alone.
I don’t know if any of what I said helps you. I wish you all the best!
September 3rd, 2009 at 11:50 pm
Christine…
I think it’s a perfectly understandable reaction…Allow yourself to feel that way – the repulsive feelings may get even stronger over time, or on certain days, in certain moments…Don’t expect yourself to be understanding of other’s faith…Try to avoid those kinds of subjects as much as you can…Follow all your own interests, and forget about other’s ‘faith’, beliefs etc…
Delve into your own unknown…Explore yourself…Do what is good, and what you love to do…Develop a healthy ‘selfishness’…And maybe try to make friends with some really neat ‘non-religious’, or atheist types…
Over time the disgust may dwindle…But, I think a healthy disgust about some people’s belief’s is a good thing…I don’t think people should excuse other’s and be ‘tolerant’ when their beliefs encourage arrogance, greed, violence etc…
And be glad you don’t have my neighbors who are totally non-religious, and complete jerks..
There’s my two cents worth…
Take care…
September 11th, 2009 at 12:35 am
My guess is that most of us could write a book or at least a very lengthy article re: the wwc of (not God). When I told ‘Duck Waddle’ (my last wwc of (not God) that his little Pasadena Boy could be a conduit of truth instead of Herby, the dork almost fell off his chair and told me I was disfellowshiped and to get out of his house. An ass does not have to have a tail to bray.
Mark Hillyard foster@inreach.com
September 11th, 2009 at 12:55 am
Hey, it’s almost 2am. Can’t sleep but i need to do something. I’m going to give this site to a friend who also left the wwc of (not God). He and I are not atheist and could never be. Dave is still in the fight but I don’t think he will get preachy.
By the way…I think Christianity is a lot more political than Churchy. Around here we see these people wearing stupid religious costumes with stupid ‘hates’ for women and I gross out when I see them at the market. What the heck makes them think that God gets excited by that? Herby tried that on the women in the churchy and I thought…”Stay the hell out of my bedroom you pervert.
September 12th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Christine: You don’t need to “accept” any religion. They’re all a bunch of obnoxious culture controlled, hypocritical horse dung. You need to accept yourself, as you are, with your mind on the way to healthy thinking. You have been raised in a family and a “church” full of stinkin thinkin. And you reflect someone who is so concerned with getting “closure” on the hideous things that have happened to you, that are willing to go to any lenghts to calm your real and possibly violent thoughts, which are the correct response. When someone has been abused, their natural inclination is to anger, and depending on the personality, to violence in word and emotion. But you have been taught that being “nice” is essential to a “decent” life. So you are trying to “be nice” but at the same time put yourself and your minds honest conclusions away. You can’t do that. You have to address the past with honesty to yourself, stop beating yourself up (you had nothing to do with the flying crap), be good to yourself, and let go of the nasty people that are still talking in your head. Let them float into infinity. Keep your sanity.
January 23rd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
i was “disfellowshipped” in the late 80’s. at first i felt like the prison doors opened and i was free. then the guilt set in. would i be thrown like trash into the lake of fire?
this was the second and final time i was kicked out. the first time, it was at the feast of tabernacles in tulsa. all the kids got together and shared a bottle of rum. well, its a long story, but the blame for these “good kids” drunkeness fell on me. the child of a single parent and whos brother was already kicked out. i was an easy scapegoat. so…the next day at the auditorium, one of the parents came up to me and fingerpointed and badmouthed me. so i blew up. in a crowd of herbfollowers, i screamed f bombs and told this woman a bunch of pornographic profanity. she went balling off to the minister and within a few minutes, i was asked to vacate the building. so i went out and had a smoke.
well after that, the guilt was killin me so i “repented” to the church and the minister. then i had to write a lette to the woman and apologize. i gladly did it.
a while later, i went to SEP in minnesota, and that sealed the deal, again long story.
i was done and never looked back. i spent years drunk or high.
finally, and i can’t explain, the real God reached me. not herb, not any of those cult gods.
this was about 20 years later that i had a sit down with God and hashed out all my hatred, hostility, spitful anger, and rage towards everything in my life. we reached an undedrstanding that day. since then, a series of events led me to be saved and baptized. not in a ritualistic “church”. i go to a nondemominational church. what others believe is their choice.
as far as accepting others belief, i follow whats right for me and what i feel is right in my heart. those who follow a cult i feel sorry for. and the post i read on here really show what a horrid affect this cult had on people. i, like most, grew up in poverty. my school clothes came from a place that the salvation army dumps their unuable rags on. pair of jeans for a nickle kind of place. i have many horror stories from my childhood as a cult kid. but anyway, places like this and others i’ve encountered have really done alot to heal me. i was broke and didn’t realize to what extent until all the research i’ve done.
from one ex cult member to another,
take care,
tracy
May 23rd, 2010 at 9:43 am
Comment removed: troll
May 23rd, 2010 at 5:08 pm
Comment removed: flames. Please don’t feed trolls.