Jeff

Thank you for your blog, I have wondered for years what were others feeling?

I am an ex WCG member, from San Jose Ca. I was born and raised in this crap. I was at the Holy Day when Fred Culter pulled his stunt. Even as a little kid I always had questions about the church. Seems everything was dictated to you. You were not entitled to your own thought feelings and emotion. They were dictated to you.

As I grew up in the Y.E.S. and then the Y.O.U. program this brainwashing became more and more evident. It was also becoming very clear that lip service was essential. As long as you sounded good and looked good, you will be praised by the pastor. Most of my time was under Leroy Cole. Nice man but definitely only taught what he was told to. Of course before him was Ron Reedy, now there is a piece of work. He came to my parent house with Fred Culter one day and drew all over my face and took measurements, and proceeded to tell my future. None of which came true. I may still have the audio tapes of this.

I basically had no childhood. It was so imperative that we stand out and be different. My father took this to the extreme. Our hair was crew cut and we had to wear cords when jeans were popular. We had to do the opposite of what the rest of the world was doing. It didn’t take long to figure out the families not in the WCG were much happier. They celebrated the holidays and enjoyed life, while I sat in the back of the room completely confused, and embarrassed. I did question this one time with my family and I was beaten unconscious. When I came to I was ordered never to question church authority. It was at this time I learned what lip service was all about. Life was not fun as a kid. Thanks to finding my dads booze locker at a young age I found a way to numb my feelings. This leads to a whole different story…

I guess one advantage of having a family so dedicated to the church was travel that took place. I did go all over the country for the Feast, Even got to go to Thailand and Hawaii. But be rest assured you had better have you tithe and offering in order.

My parents divorced and were ordered to remarry during the whole DNR thing. Sixteen years later we snuck out of my bedroom window and escaped from a very abusive man. He believed we had to be beaten into submission. Of course the pastors were always giving sermons on how you men are to control you family. Taught how the wife will obey, and nothing as to how the man needs to respect his wife. Such a one-sided church.

After the divorce we moved to the Portland, Oregon area. Yep, the same was being taught. The gal I was dating was told her family would be disfellowshipped if she continued dating me. All because I had no intention of going to AC. It was at this time I went right up to the Bastard and questioned his very authority. I got a mouth full from him (Glen White and the associate pastor, Bill Davis.) It was suggested I keep my mouth shut.

I went to school in Arizona only to find Mr. Cole had been transferred. Now as an adult, I began to really see the corruption in all of this. I stopped paying tithes and offerings and started to really question church authority. I was eventually asked to stop coming and was denied the monthly newsletter.

I have questioned all this scary God stuff for years. I also questioned the different teachings that were going on. Why were they allowed to go to school dances and play school sports in the San Francisco and Oakland ares, but under the San Jose leadership that was a sin??

I stopped going when I was asked to leave, I was never actually disfellowshipped, as the church staring to separate at that time. This must have been 1993-94.

Need less to say my head was seriously messed up by all this.

I refuse to have anything to due with religion today. I have taken a spiritual approach to life and since I have done that, I have now found happiness.

If you find this appropriate for you blog feel free to post it.

Jeff

101 thoughts on “Jeff”

  1. Mr. Armstrong was truly the end-time Elijah. Prove to yourself what is the truth. Soon you will see where God is working today. Malachi 4:5-6 turn your hearts back to the Father O rebellious house of spiritual Israel.

  2. To ‘Anonymous': PLEASE edify me. Be specific: HOW, specifically, did H.Armstrong “Turn hearts back to the Father”? Please tell us, specifically, using BIBLE verses: HOW did H.A “Turn hearts of children back to the Father”???
    You see, those verses ACTUALLY read: “Turn the heart of the FATHERS to the CHILDREN, + the heart of the children to their fathers…….” I’ve always found it hard to see how H.A “Turned the hearts of children to their fathers + hearts of fathers to their children.” Ergo I’m very interested in your Bible verses supported input/reply–please. Also: WHERE, according to you is “God working today”?? Why not share your knowledge instead of leaving us hanging?

  3. To ‘Anonymous’. “Where God’s working today” quote [you] unquote. Why hide your light under a bushell? Doesn’t your Christian conversion, instruction and duty. Require you to guide folk to where “God’s working today.”????

  4. HWA turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and hearts of the children to their fathers? Dude, that cat was into incest bigtime, like for ten years while he was plagiarizing and concocting his formulative doctrines! So, you wouldn’t want him going anywhere near the children project, or it would have ended up just like NAMBLA.

    Also, there would have been S & M involved, because all the kids growing up in the 50s and ’60s got the crap beat out of them. Cords, hell!

    Nope. HWA was the wrong man for the job. God was nowhere near him. Satan, maybe, but no way God. That was just a con some of our weak-minded and crisis-debillitated parents bought into. That stuff should have all died out in 1975 when Deut. 18:22 kicked in.

    BB

  5. Please provide valid proof about incest by H.Armstrong. Necessary to have validated, authentic and recorded proof of your claims about incest–please.

  6. You guys don’t accept the testimony of David Robinson, the recent interviews of members of the Armstrong family, the records surrounding the divorce from Ramona, or anything that would normally be accepted in a court of law. I personally believe that if there were literal pictures, the worshippers of HWA would say they were photoshopped.

    The incest is just icing on the cake, though. Alcoholism, explosive temper disorder, fiduciary misconduct, mass murder by false medical doctrine, 1975, the bogussness of British Israelism and German Assyrianism, falsified church history, eisegesis, etc. provide more than enough evidence to the objective person proving that HWA was not what his followers believe him to have been.

    BB

  7. Byker Bob. “You guys,” ?? There’s just me; asking you for solid proof of your claim H.A practized incest. Was he actually charged by police for that crime and defended himself in court regarding same? Apart from hearsay attack and counter attack from Ramona, Robinson etc. Is there any actual verifiable proof-please? My desire is the actual truth and I’m seeking satisfaction regarding this claim. Where is the solid evidence for perusal by anyone seeking the truth thereto?

  8. Disregarding a compelling overall trend of bad fruits, personality disorders, and failed prophecies, you are obtusely asking for something which you know cannot be produced. Pictures, recordings, and film footage (if we had any) could all be faked. One could even falsify a used condom with dna from both alleged parties. People lie under oath, and these days, there are even embedded false memories with which to contend. People with a vested interest in the philosophy which HWA taught will always find some way of discounting what we do have available, of spiritualizing away his false prophecies, and ignoring the negative effects which his followers unnecessarily suffered in their lives. They drank, and continue to drink his intoxicating Kool Aid.

    Look, I don’t just gratuitously believe anything I hear about the man. On another blog, was a letter presented, allegedly from a long term employee of the college, stating that during his overseas trips, HWA enjoyed having young boys suck him off. I ended up being a minority of one, disputing this.
    There were also allegations that while Loma was alive, Rod Meredith would attempt to procure “special ladies” for HWA from amongst the student body, because “men of God have especially strong sex drives.” I tend to disbelieve that, as well.

    There is much more substance to the incest allegations, even involving statements made by officials of COG-7, present during that era, who claimed to have have known all about it. We have the impressions of what was known in the Armstrong family, provided by one of HWA’s grandsons, and his neice. Had his book been libelous, a formidible legal team capable of derailing the State of California’s receivership case could certainly have made mincemeat of David Robinson, who by the way, was observant of all the classic WCG doctrines right up to the day of his death. Also, it would certainly have diminished Ramona’s tithe-funded multimillion dollar settlement, had the allegations she raised been refuted, diffused, and put to rest in actual court proceedings. $5 million dollars is a heck of a lot of money, even today. What daughter wouldn’t testify in court to save her father’s reputation, and to prevent a stepmother from gold-digging? As for Herbert’s behavior, you have to ask yourself WWJD?

    BB

  9. “WWJD?” Please explain; must’ve missed that part of my acronym class, or it’s a geographical language thing? Seems I’ve read, heard that Mark[?] Armstrong denied these incest charges? Any input please?

  10. Stumbled on this website,interesting discourse regarding H.Armstrong and WCG. Tarquin ‘What would Jesus do?’, believe that’s acronym translation. Which is a whole other debate, highly subjective reasoning led and needs to be.
    While admitting that ‘BBob’ has a valid point that WCG/Armstrong lawyer, tithe fueled team that defeated State of California. Did zilch about Robinson’s book. There’s the reality that just defending one self against accusation[s] doesn’t mean you’ll win.Often end result is accusation cannot be proved or disproved and remains such: an unproven accusation. That’s the nature of the legal ‘beast’. Millions of dollars later that is! There’s always that old ‘chestnut’, why didn’t any of those BBob mentioned as being in the ‘know': speak out or inform police? Why were there no charges brought by the victim, or in fact anyone at all, anywhere, at any time? Does this raise room for thought on this matter?
    Deut.18:22 Is the classical Bible scripture for identifying ‘false prophets’. When applied to H.A, we can say that therefore he, due to 1975 booklet, is such. Some I’ve raised this scripture with, [ as has BBob ] reply that H.A was correct, he was ‘out’ or wrong on the dates. They believe that his 1975 In Prophecy will occur in the future? I raise this as conjecture without agenda.
    Mat.6:19-24. Is scripture I apply to the WCG of my experience and observation; also applies to Roman Catholic and many Protestant churches/cults ,Muslim and Buddhist religions today! Some ministers I’ve raised, or rather, directed these verses at, have refused to reply, let alone discuss them!

  11. I don’t recall Mark Armstrong denying his grandfather’s incest. However, Ambassador Reports quoted Mark as stating that there were incidents where HWA was so drunk some nights that he and Garner Ted had to carry HWA to his bedroom, prepare him for bed, etc. For his own part, On one occasion, when GTA was asked directly about the incest, Ted got cagey, and made a statement to the effect that “All you need to know about my father is contained in his autobiography.” Rod Meredith has denied the incest allegations.

    Providing food for thought, is the timing of the incest. Since it is alleged to have occurred during the time period when HWA was supposedly receiving “revelations” of “restored truth”, anyone who is currently teaching any version of these so-called restored truths surely must realize that if they acknowledge the incest, inherently and automatically it means that the system of restored truths could not have come from God. Acknowledging it is tantamount to shooting themselves in the foot. The God we read about in the Bible simply would not work through a man who was regularly, continuously, practicing sin of that magnitude. Acknowledging the sin which others had uncovered would mean the end of the doctrines, the prophecies (which turned out to be false anyway), and the tithe cash cow. Armstrongism would cease to be viable as a profitable, growing, religion or evangelistic effort.

    Having considered the implications of this topic for years, I’ve been able to come up with only one plausible positive, beyond the shadow of a doubt proof of the incest: a child who had been born as a result of the relationship. Frankly, I expect that even then, die-hard loyalists would probably disbelieve the results of any paternity tests.

    The Mattsons, right up until the time of Dorothy’s death only lived a few miles from me. Their phone number was listed in my local DEX directory. There was a time when I briefly entertained the idea of calling or visiting them, as a reporter for one of the websites for which I have regularly written, tactfully and as humanely as possible. I decided against that. Even if direct, truthful answers had been given corroborating or denying the allegations, obtaining them would have caused additional pain, and any of us who have been involved with Armstrongism have already suffered through enough pain (while being angry with ourselves for our natural, normal attitides toward this). It wouldn’t have been for my benefit, anyway. I’ve got enough convincing material on completely different topics. It would have been to attempt to help some people, to open the eyes of some people who do not want their eyes to be opened.

    BB

  12. P.S. The child was purely hypothetical. To my knowledge, there was no offspring produced by whatever happened.

    BB

  13. 1st, Thanks Clint, of course! Byker Bob, you’ve apparently done much homework on H.A! Only God and he really knows truth of incest claim; the way you ‘breathed’ the oral sex , ‘special ladies’ and offspring [of incest] into this discussion interests me. This may be your use of hypothetical examples to illustrate your assertions; conversely, this appears to be a clever method of planting conversational seeds of doubt? Then stating [a] “I tend to disbelieve those as well.” [b] “The child was purely hypothetical.” However, most lawyers and folk in general,know the damage is done and verbal manure, like mud sticks! I’m not for a nano second, saying your textual input here is verbal manure-you understand? I tend to disbelieve your input is “verbal manure.” I only raised the term contextually, as a hypothetical.

  14. To ‘Anonymous’ 30th/8/14, you texted statements about H.A to this website; any chance you’ll reply to my [1/9/14] questions? Doesn’t your insider, Bible knowledge, tell you to answer according to the ‘faith within you’ ? Rulership by Christians, believing themselves ‘saved’ while rest of us goes through the ‘tribulation'; then you’ll rule in tomorrow’s world? Don’t you feel obliged to share your elite, ‘insider’ knowledge and help save more of us?! Bible tells you to not hide your light under a bushell. Doesn’t your love for fellow humans require you to share and help us? Or is your religion, which I suspect to be PCC? An exclusive one? How are you preaching the gospel to the’ whole world’ by your approach?! Anyway, religion aside: have the spiritual ‘gonads’ to reply, according to the ‘faith within you!’ Did you always somehow ‘know’ you were different than the rest of us? Maybe all the toilets flushed automatically when you alone, entered the toilets? Perhaps there was always a parking space for you at the gym,just when you needed it? Did all the fluoros ‘blow’ in the drugstore when you were about to buy that medication: lack of faith! Cheers!

  15. Tarquin, there wasn’t a trick involved, or a hidden agenda. My point is, if you surf the internet attempting to find a solution to the Armstrong problem, sooner or later you will run across the allegations that I mentioned, and even worse. At that point, you will need to exercise discernment. There are people who believe HWA was God’s Apostle, and could not have committed major sin. There are others who believe he was as bad as Charles Manson, Adolf Hitler, or Josef Stalin, and probably did virtually anything of which he was ever accused. I believe he was simply a false teacher, a flawed human being, just a man, a mixture of good and bad, but that there are some things that he has been accused of that he would never, ever do.

    All that any of us can do, as individuals, is to follow our consciences. Although the quality of my life would have been much, much better if I had never heard of HWA, as a Christian I hope that God forgives him for the horrible evils that HWA most certainly brought into all of our lives. My inclination is that if upon arrival, I find that he has been sentenced to polish the Pope’s sandals in the Kingdom, I’ll probably tell him, “Here, let me help you!”

    BB

  16. “Popes sandals” what the?! You: I see as an adult, resulting from WCG parenting. Experiencing the bullying, discrimination and intolerance from schoolmates and adult peers, due to WCG upbringing. Your parents probably believed they served God through their WCG experience and parenting. If they’re alive, they may regret their WCG experience and parenting methodology. If they’re dead: get on with your life! Maybe you and they’ll meet in another time/place: you’ll all be educated by the interaction! Careful of attacking parents! God may demand you walk a mile in THEIR shoes!
    We become what our minds dwell on; are our dwellings healthy, positive + uplifting, or 180 degrees opposed? Only you can answer for yourself + your case. Your Pope remark : does this mean you’re now RCatholic, or is there another esoteric meaning behind your statement? The RCatholic C has the all time track record for bullying, murder, torture, child abuse, political manipulation and support of dictatorships throughout history! Have you changed from one abuser to another?
    Feel free to reply…
    Cheers!

  17. Well, no, I am not Catholic. However, the Catholics do have some positives as well as negatives, and to the Armstrongist mind, if one compliments an occasional Catholic positive, that makes one a Catholic sympathizer, which is quickly equated with being a Nimrod sympathizer (per Hislop), or a Simon Magus sympathizer. In so far as the Catholics go, it is not possible for the Armstrongist mind to be objective. If you are not totally against them, somehow that makes you in favor of the Beast or the Anti-Christ. And, of course, all of that becomes totally imaginary if Herbert W. Armstrong made an error in labeling and condemning them. Therefore, the sandal polishing becomes an appropriate form of penance, as HWA would be publically reversing his error, and the bad perceptions which he created. This act would be as distasteful to him as it would have been for second temple Jews to come to the aid of Samaritans, and we know what Jesus had to say about that.

    As for the WCG background, we can all attempt to do what we can in the here and now to correct the errors and problems which Armstrongism brought into our lives, and to warn, alert, and help others escape the clutches of evil, false, teachers. But you can only do so much. We can have learning experiences that help in making partial corrections. However, experiences can only take one so far. The bulk of the work can only be done through transformation of our human emotions, and from the select or specific detrimental aspects for which each of us seem to have been hardwired. So, yes, I’m looking forward to having some direct mentoring from God in the Kingdom, although undoubtedly, some of it will probably fall outside of my comfort zone.

    Maybe we can get together over some beer and pretzels there, and have a good laugh at ourselves.

    BB

  18. Some of my friends are RC,its not the folk BBob, its the religion and its history, ditto for WCG. “How’s the weather?” My ‘hardwiring’ prompts me to ask. Is this some code/ mindmeld/ BBob member check word ala Masons, CIA etc? I’ve not been programmed with the required reply. However: how many angels can fit on a pinhead? Careful how you answer.
    Oh, almost forgot: how’s ‘Anonymous’? these days?—Well? Good old reliable ‘Anonymous’.

  19. The Sabbath and knowledge of the Roman Catholic Church as two examples. Were known and disseminated long before Armstrong, history records this fact[s] and too the history of RCC , it’s track record was known long before he started his WCG. Just sayin’.
    “I’m back.”

  20. Tarquin, you do realize that when you try to play your transparent little games, like posting under three different names, your symbol to the left remains the same? Also, my literary analysis software does a pretty good job of identifying all of your posts through various comparison points.

    What is your game? It surely does not involve honesty in any way!

    BB

  21. See??? Damocles, Clint, Tarquin, and Anonymous, all with the same symbol. If you want to really fool some of the less perceptive ones, borrow a friend’s computer, and then change your name and email . It’ll fool the symbols here, but not my software!

    BB

  22. “Nilcarborundumilligitimi” I don’t and you won’t! Three different individuals using same PC ‘dude’. In the real world beyond this website, your PC software; social construction of reality can be and is such. No “game” and you can believe, feel whatever you flamin’ like!

  23. Would you like skype images of we three: hands on the keyboard BB?! If we did, you’d say it was set up wouldn’t you? Again I/we invite all website users to avail themselves of your video where you wax [tongue in cheek] eloquent about WCG and religion in general. No charge for the free promotion “dude”!
    Beware of the apparent growing conspiracy theory dogma I/we’ve noticed continues to grow within you: that can eat you up–“dude”!
    Feel free to disprove any of the statements made by we three musketeers hereon, or non-answer those in too hard basket.
    BB: why do you text here as “Anonymous’? Baiting your little pet theme hook eh? You’re not the only one who knows ‘stuff’.
    As usual BB its been fun; our work is done here!

  24. Your work is done here? As nearly as I can tell you have blown yourself off of yet another Armstrong dissident site. Aren’t you worried that some hypothetical person who sees more than your average blogger might turn your information over to the Germans?

    Later dude.
    BB

  25. IF I’VE “BLOWN” MY MILEAGE ON THIS WEBSITE. HOW COME I’M STILL APPEARING HERE?! Your “Germans” comment is hilarious, especially to a German! BBOB: here’s a challenge to your CONSPIRACY THEORY philosophy: IF BBOB HAS INFLUENCE HEREON: bar me from your website + STATE it here + now!
    So. Bar me from this website because BBOb says I’ve “blown myself off” this website! Here we go BBob: use your influence, have me barred!

  26. BBOB we used ‘Anonymous’ as you’re comfortable with it, that’s one of your website ‘names’. “Later dude”: now. is usually better than later! …NOTICE: I/we’re STILL accepted, allowed on this website?! Despite you’re statement that I/we’re “blown off’. Again. We ask this website to BAR us, because BBOB said we’ve “blown off” this website.
    Vale Bob, may your God go with you! Notice we’ve ASKED this website to bar us due to your “blown off ” claim: yet we’re still here?!

  27. Now that’s impressive! Website *changed to Painful Truth before my very eyes! Saw input; THANKS! Convinced me [and* that] about BBOB, PTruth and this website which still hasn’t banned me! BBob ‘Anonymous’ has become too overt, try Lone Ranger, Tonto or the ‘Pope’ need be more covert…Vale. BBob. Here’s a chance to text you don’t know what I’m on about: worth a few drone inputs. However, we have the experience recorded.

  28. Rave on, Rasputin. The reason you get banned isn’t due to any influence I personally have. Now, that would actually involve some sort of conspiracy theory! It is that people set up blogs for specific purposes, and you attempt for a while to hijack them with your Looney Tunes clutter. In order to keep their blogs on track, they end up swatting the mosquito, then figuratively spraying on insect repellent by enabling the approval function for comments.

    All you have really accomplished here is proving or verifying what I posted on June 14. I don’t know how frequently this blog gets monitored, but now, when they notice, whoever owns the site is going to need to go back and clear all of your disruptive comments away, to restore the purpose and credibility of the blog. Jeff had a story to tell, and it obviously was of value to the earlier commenters. It will be again, once your grafitti is expunged.

    You haven’t done anything new or novel here. We’ve seen racists attempt to ruin blogs with ethnic slurs, others firebombing sites with filthy language, and even others getting ISPs to temporarily remove blogs. I would suggest that you get back on your meds. That would certainly benefit you, if not all of humanity.

    BB

  29. Good point, BB,

    And I might add that being “banned” in an electronic way isn’t even required; once I found how utterly boring and worthless this recent rant had become, I personally banned it from my reading. When one or more of my physical maladies keeps me up at the wee hours (while much of this tripe is being scrawled), I am not heading to my computer to find something worthwhile; I typically find an interesting book to read until my eyes begin to get heavy.

    It actually IS too bad that Jeff’s thread has been utterly broken (maybe to be mended later as Bob hinted), due to some sad case of “look-at-me-ism.”

    Perhaps soon there will return a genuine discourse by people who have stories and want to relate to one another in sincere ways.

  30. Mark,

    Good to hear from you. I hope you are experiencing a greater number of good moments these days, and that these are leading into full recuperation.

    Books are great, especially for folks like us with numerous aptitudes!

    Be well!
    BB

  31. ‘Anonymous’ :AKA: Byker Bob, Markman and or ‘Jeff’. Bob Byker. Lollards kept the Sabbath. Wycliffe, Tindale, Coverdale + Foxes Book of Martyrs: have a good read! Bet they won’t be cleaning pope’s sandals!
    Always you resort to abuse; try rising above that Bob. “Expunged” :LOL!
    Cheers!
    Clint.

  32. “Expunge” challenge to this website: DO SO! If you don’t, BBob’s word “expunge” is lost on the wind! Bob, don’t they know how VIP you are? Tell’em to get their act together + “expunge” me! I’ll check for several days to see if I’ve been “expunged.” Keep posted; I’ll post here frequently over next weeks to see if you’ve had me “expunged”. Seems to me, folk owning this website are too lateral thinking to be socially engineered by you + you AKA aliases! But IF they ban me, I’ll be proved wrong: we’ll see. Have chosen to not reply in kind to your abuse because abuse is often used by folk without an intellectual/truthful answer. Better folk see your abuse, helps their judgement and see my NON abuse.
    So BBob/’Jeff’/ ‘Anonymous’ /Markman: may your God go with you.

  33. Whether or not you are banned is irrelevant to your state of existence, or mine. You’ll still be a tinkling cymbal. If you happen to have used a lot of drugs in your past, or have problems with paranoia, nothing that happens on a blog or forum will change that.

    It is certainly always more conducive to good discussion on a blog if you have intelligent, even handed, non-disruptive contributors. You, unfortunately, are a problem poster, an aberration. And, you have been unnecessarily confrontational, and have hijacked this discussion. That is why I believe you may be a current or former drug abuser, or some sort of sociopathic troll. You have done this same thing on at least 3 other blogs of which I am aware, making it all too easy for people to write you off and not take you seriously.

    BB

  34. Always Bob you resort to textual abuse eg: ‘meds’, mental illness accusations, now you say I’m drug using + sociopathic. ‘Troll’ well that’s your common tag for folk when they disagree with you and ask questions + your oft used [para] “Worried I’ll give your name to the Germans.” Folk viewing your website involvements will see the same abuse from you towards challenges to you in some, even mild way. This fact is self evident through and by your own reactive diatribe[s] against folk you disagree with: various websites. There’s that axiom Bob: often the accusations we throw at others apply to the accuser[s]. Bob: I am one also hurt, scarred and hostile through my WCG experiences; that’s why I use this website + intend to keep so doing. If not “expunged”: love that word, conjurs up images of corrupt, drunken priests, playing God! You went along calmly Bob: until I mentioned RCChurch, then ‘flipped’ as usual, when one suggests the truth about the largest CULT worldwide. Suggest you and other users of this website read Foxes Book of Martyrs + the New FBMartyrs also Wide as the Waters by Benson Bobrick. Also Google Origins and history of the RCChurch: learn the track record of the largest existing CULT on earth!
    To website owners[s]: your decision to allow my presence here or “expunge” me remains open. I see “expungement” in this/my case as denying an ex WCGer interaction, therapy + the sharing of truth. It’s also a weak reaction to views that may whilst accurate and truthful: some users here, disagree with! ……Notice Bob: NO abuse from me to you….Cheers–Clint.

  35. BBob. The reality of the Sabbath, 10 Commandments and the book of Revelation existed eons before Armstrong: remain and are timeless.

  36. BBob+ website viewers: the REALITY of Sabbath,10 commandments + book of Revelation: inspired, recorded and preserved for antiquity by GOD: eons before Armstrong!
    The track record of largest CULT worldwide: RCchurch is recorded abundantly + observable today via Google + books etc: years before Armstrong. For starters see Foxes Book of Martyrs….

  37. Whether you liked HWA or despised him, the man is dead, and what’s important is how anyone deals with the reality of the church and how it impacted various people. Some people were irreparably harmed by it. Others not. But for those who were, screaming Bible verses and accusations corrects nothing. Defending a dead man is irrelevant. It gives an individual human way too much power to let him and his memory get you worked up from beyond the grave. I take a “Get thee behind me, WCG” approach. I’ve reached a point where the ins and outs of the long-gone organization that was WCG are irrelevant. Arguing over them a needless agitation. I’ve lived more of my life outside the church than in at this point (I left right before my 18th birthday). What matters is the journey you take today — religious or not. Mine isn’t, and I’m much better off.

  38. Christina, well said. Maybe it’s appeared as though I’m an ‘Armstrongite': not so! I have chosen as you, a different journey than the many WCG years I lived; still a believer in God, Christ and Bible.
    My beliefs include the facts that Armstrong wasn’t the creator of truths that I hold to be correct. He merely taught some of them AFTER others had even centuries before.
    I’m aware, as are you, that allowing folk to occupy too much ‘thought space’ gives them control. This includes attacking them and is truly “needless agitation.”
    Vale.

  39. https://www.pcog.org is teaching the truth not the world wife church of god anymore, the churches split when Mr. Armstrong died. It was proficided it would split. The world wide church of god turned on Mr. Armstrong before he died, even his son. The devil attacked gods one true church and tried to destroy it and it’s warnings, he wants to destroy gods family, what other church is talking about the proficies of what’s going to happen, every week the church’s proficies come true, the trumpets are being sounded are you listening? Satan knows his time is almost up that’s why he’s attacking us who he hates at full force! Have faith or you’ll burn up along with satan and his worldly followers! Don’t give in to this world laws satans laws!

  40. Having lived through the hell of wwcg, I can only say i suffer a few flash backs. Marrying a man who beats you and your children for not obeying his word. This church was a perfect fit for many sociopaths. I ran away from my captor, with my children. He was a perverted hypocrite, but would always keep the sabbath and act holy. Only mentally ill people would ever buy into this. Losers, perverts and egotists.

  41. Hannah, unfortunately you are correct. Churches can and do include such people in their membership. Roman Catholic, Protestant, Buddhism, Hinduism, Muslim adinfinitum, its a bad side of human nature and doesn’t reflect true Christianity. Some have realized how hypocritical they were AFTER exiting WCG.

  42. Hannah. The exclusive, insular, ‘we’re the only true church’ mantra and closed mind reaction to opposing truth. Encouraged hypocrisy; however its true, I now believe: certain personality types were and are attracted to cults. I believe that good, decent people were in WCG and weren’t hypocrites. These latter were there because they believed God wanted them there. I met them; sometimes I wonder what became of them when ‘reality therapy’ was dished out to WCG? Sociopaths and indeed psychopaths exist everywhere, they’re not confined to churches, its a state[s] of mind you see.

  43. Yes, sorry for the rant. I agree about the “state of mind”, factor. Many politicians, actors etc..love the exclusive, special feeling, of being selected into a group, or should I say “chosen”. My ex used to love to talk about how he was a chosen member. I was discounted. I think he dreamed of being another Armstrong leader. In some strange way maybe the church saved him from being or doing something horrible. He could contain his demons, focusing on the Bible and the church teachings. Almost like a self imposed prison. He needed the structure or he might go haywire.

  44. ‘He’ ex, would have probably been as you described, in whatever club, cult, church or group accepting him. However, the ‘ exclusivist ‘ nature or modus operandi schemata of WCG served him well- unfortunately. The captive audience of church and family enables such behavior to be exacted upon the ‘sheep’ or family members.
    What is your present state of belief choice regarding God?

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