Name Withheld
Don’t print my name or email address, please.
I grew up in the WWCG since I was 4 years old. The only thing going for me was that my dad was not a member. The church we went to was about 60 miles away and we drove it every Saturday come hell or high water. I remember it being a “big deal” if someone didn’t come to church; they were looked down upon by the other members. I remember having to sit in church perfectly still and take notes! You had to act like you were paying attention or the ministers would call you on it in the middle of their sermon! I always wanted to go to SEP, but never got chose even though my parents had the money to pay for it; the minister didn’t like me, so I never got to attend. Then the year I didn’t want to go, I got accepted. I got a job and said I couldn’t take the time off. (That worked!)
I did have some fun times in the church. The Feast was always fun and I saw a lot of different places. Going to church for 2 (some days 4) hours a day sucked, but the down time was fun. I met a lot of good friends in the church and still have a lot of them to this day (although none of us are in the church any longer!)
I have regrets that I didn’t get to play sports for my school. We had church tournaments, but it just wasn’t the same as the “real deal” at school. I was good, too. My high school days were filled with sneaking out, partying, doing all the bad things (being a punk rocker) and the like. Why get involved with school things if you can’t participate? The church started changing all of it’s policies when I was a sophmore, but it was too late.
I always felt bad for the poor people at church. Sometimes they didn’t have money to feed themselves, but they were still tithing… HELLO, I think God would want you to feed your kids and get your life together first… just a thought. They wouldn’t have money for the Feast, so the church would give them money (or ask for donations and embarrass the family.)
I never liked the deacons and deaconesses, either. They always acted holier than thou. You had to call them Mr. and Mrs. so and so. The ministers, too! I remember one time Mr. Tkach was coming to our church (his daughter was our ministers wife— how convenient) and everyone was so excited and acting all stupid like he was a god or something. I was totally unimpressed with him and his sermon. All the kiss-ups were up there shaking hands with him and giving him expensive gifts and stuff. He should have been giving us gifts with all the money they brainwashed my mom out of. Totally ridiculous! Mr. Tkach was probably wearing an Armani suit with real diamond cuff links and flying his jet plane into our little ol’ city like he’s someone special. It still makes me sick to think about it.
I have tons of things that I would like to say, maybe another day. Well, maybe one more thing… Ambassador College sucked! Who in the world would have wanted to go there? If you thought the church was bad, listen to the stories about there. I would like to know if anyone who went there even has a real job and makes good money? What a crock! More money out of our parents pockets for nothing. I would also like to know where did all the money go for the sale of the colleges? Did they give any back? They need to. It seemed like all of the older people at our church who died would leave all of their money to the church. I’m not talking like $5000, I am talking like $100,000 and up. Where is that money? Those peoples’ poor kids, thought they might send their kids to college with their inheritance, but no, they got shafted out of it because of brainwashed parents! Thanks WWCG— thanks a lot for all of the hearbreaks, heartache, fights with my parents, fights with kids from school, fights with church kids, and making us feel like nobodies because we weren’t ordained in some way. We were just sheep following the flock to nowhere. I will write again later, thanks for letting me vent. I still believe in God— my way, and my version. I am an eclectic believer, no wonder my motto has been since I was 10 yrs old “QUESTION AUTHORITY”!!! Words to live by.
Explore posts in the same categories: Personal Story
February 17th, 2006 at 8:13 am
“Question Authority!” Yes–that is something I still struggle with, but am learning to do. I remember that even when I didn’t like the deacons and deaconnesses, either, how it was “evil” to say so even when they were purposefully mean. Thanks for expressing your thoughts, and for having the courage to believe in God in your own way. I do, too, but it has been amazing how many Christians have gotten offended when I “went over their heads” so to speak, by not embracing a certain religious ideology into my belief in God.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
I just read all the mail that different people sent in and i was in that mess for 27 years. i raised my son (which don’t want anything to do with God) and i regret everything. i am divorced now and scared to death of minister (so called ones) i was mess treated and some was wanting even more. they was the ones i was suppose to trust, go to when we had problems, i wasn’t allowed to have any contaid with anyone out outside of the so called church. I am scared to death to say a prayer or ask forgiveness and you know i was so angery that god forgot me and my son. my husband was a armstrong man all the way. his way or no way. i know kids in the (girls) got pregarent just to get out of the church. i know a women that breast cancer was not allowed to go to the doctor, she dead. is that some kind of murder? well i could go on and on but that something i am trying to forgive and with god’s help i will. i want so much to have a relationship with so called god, but why would he want me i forget him for 27 years. please keep me and my son in your prayers.
t
July 26th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
wow. Anybody know anything about Family Harvest Church?
September 9th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Sorry to hear about your experience. Mine was different. My parents came into “the church” in 1969, when I was 3. We no longer attend WCG or any of its breakoffs.
My wife and I did attend Ambassador College (AC) in the 80’s. My experience with WCG was that it was controlling and a cult. However, I enjoyed AC (and YOU). Got in trouble with AC administration a bit and was not considered for any positions, training or anything else (RA, club president, minister, etc), but I have a nice job (director of a $2 million non-profit for 13 years) and know many other AC alums who are doing well (financially, psychologically, and other ways).
I just see much of what happened as culturally oriented - people 40 years ago here in the south respected adults and called them Mr & Mrs. Authority was respected and generally followed. The 60’s and 70’s resolved that. Those years also taught us to “question authority” - which is a good thing, given that we’re a democratically controlled society.
Our US founding fathers struggled in how to set up our government. Benjamin Franklin told a woman after the forefather’s decision that esentially, “we gave you a republic, ma’am, if you’re responsible enough to keep it.” I don’t think the quote is exact, but it’s fairly close (look it up on the Internet if you want). Our forefathers also thought government was a necessary evil, an act of service to society, not a lifelong secure job. Jefferson admired the indians, who had less of a structured government, but white anglo-saxon people apparently need structure. The forefathers expected that religion would be the essential key in holding our government together and keeping men from spiraling downwards. Unfortunately, abuse in religion (Islaam, catholic, protestant, WCG, Hindu, and any others) happens, as it happens in families, organizations, government, etc. and “religion” isn’t the savior, regardless of which religion it is.
The problem is responsibility (Christianity, Jesus and the Bible calls it our “hearts”); and our forefathers knew it, too. Our forefathers left it to the churches to address the moral problems of society. Unfortunately some churches have abused their responsibility.
“We are all “*created* equal” as our constitution clearly states, and “endowed by our *Creator* with certain rights.” If we’re honest with ourselves we see how each of us naturally declines morally.
Point is, “yes, question authority,” but be morally responsible and respectful enough to see others as God’s special creation while you question.
FWIW,
Mark
September 9th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Terri:
I just read your note above. I’m so sorry to hear about your situation. Write me at mwise011@charter.net God does love you. He has not forgotten you. He promises in His word that He will *never* leave us, *never* forsake us. He promises in Romans 8 that *nothing*, *no created thing* shall separate us from the love of God. Luke 15 mentions 3 parables where Jesus says in two of them that the Shepherd and woman seek what’s lost *until it is found.* Then the 3rd parable speaks of the love a father has for his lost son.
It may be helpful to think of it this way, your son or daughter will *always* be your son and daughter, regardless of what they do. If they ran off to China, rejected you, thought you had treated them unfairly, changed their name, said they would never talk to you again, regardless of all that, they would still be your son or daughter. They can’t undo what you did by bringing them into this world. God is the same except His love is much deeper. We can reject Him, say He doesn’t exist, not talk to Him, etc. But regardless, He loves us, and to draw a breath is an act of His grace.
FWIW,
Mark
September 9th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Mark,
This is not a place for preaching. You’re at the line now– please don’t cross it.
Thanks.
September 9th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
Robert:
Opps! Not sure where the line is. Would you please explain?
Thanks,
September 9th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Mark,
All of us were (or in some cases still are) believers. We don’t need Bible verses quoted at us— we know what it says. And some of us— including me your host— think it’s bunk. There’s plenty of places you can go on the Internet to preach. If you want to say you believe in God and you think God loves someone, then fine— that’s your opinion. But don’t start giving a sermonette: go start your own church if you like that form of discourse.
Hope this helps.
September 10th, 2007 at 9:19 am
Robert:
So, I think I’m starting to understand, but I’m going to need some more help.
1) No Bible verses quoted (that’s easy enough). Got burned, don’t want to go there. Fair enough.
2) No sermons or sermonettes - not sure what you’re saying here. A little more clarity would help. You said “opinion” is “fine.” How do you distinguish between opinion and the “giving of a sermon?” It seems you are suggesting / implying that sermons contain fact or truth. Hmm. So people commenting on this website only put forth their opinions?
That leads us to the question, “What is opinion and what is truth?”
I would be interested in hearing your response to that question.
September 10th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Mark,
No, we don’t need to go there to answer your basic question about what’s OK to post in the comments here.
Just remember the title of this blog: “Non-Believer Former Members of the WCG.” This is a forum for non-believers, not a pulpit for you to do altar-calls from.
I also say in my intro to this site that, “I will not approve any comments that I feel disturb the supportive atmosphere of this site.” Supportive for whom? Non-believers. Is trying to encourage non-believers to go back to the superstition they left “supportive?” Not in my opinion, and that’s the opinion that counts here.
Just keep these points in mind and I think you’ll be OK. When in doubt, feel free to e-mail me and ask.
September 10th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Robert:
Didn’t think you’d want to touch that one, but that’s OK. I have seen in my own life with WCG that truth is rather important in life. When a person is lost in a jungle or in a dark room (as we all were when we realized we were “duped”), that person must find a reference point. If that reference point starts moving or is subjective, things can get quite confusing and frustrating quickly (as is clearly written about here). But that’s life. I have a responsibility for my actions. And while talk and experiences are therapeutic, there comes a time when one must grow beyond it.
A lot of the things people experienced in WCG, were done culturally. My two grandfathers, who weren’t involved with WCG, whipped my father and my uncle and by today’s standards abused them (bruises and the like). It wasn’t right, but it also wasn’t just WCG’s fault, as WCG had nothing to do with it. They also demanded respect and were quite authoritarian in nature.
No one said I was doing altar calls, nor had I planned to.
My purpose is not to return people to superstitions or mind-controlled cults (or even forums that do not allow differing thoughts, speech methods, ideas or ways of thinking). My purpose is to share that my experience is different, as everyone’s here was different. But God does love you, me and everyone in this forum. I’ve seen that clearly. Don’t let bad experiences with someone’s cult, organization, forum, business, family, religion, etc. keep you away from God.
We’ve got a choice. We can grow or we can stay where we’re at. We can search for truth or we can remain upset. Remaining upset, doctors will tell you, is not good for you. We can treat people the way they treated us, or we can release, forgive and be free. It’s amazing when we release and forgive - that person or organization or cult no longer has control over you and your life.
All the best,
Mark
September 10th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
Mark,
It’s not that it’s an unimportant question— it’s just irrelevant to the topic at hand.
I don’t quite agree: we can grow, or we can die. There is no “staying where we’re at.” I do agree that release and forgiveness are important, and part of the healing process. Helping people find release is a big part of what this blog is about.
Every individual has to decide for themselves who or what (if anything) to follow, respect, or worship. No authority, whether the Bible or any human is inherently worthy of respect— respect must be earned. For my own part, not only does the WCG and its related cults no longer have control over me: neither does the Bible or Christianity in general.
September 10th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Robert said: “For my own part, not only does the WCG and its related cults no longer have control over me: neither does the Bible or Christianity in general.”
Nor me either. I had enough of that. I willingly lay my life down to my Creator because of what He willingly did for me, and respectfully submit to His gentle, loving heart. The peace that follows is indescribable - I used to think people just made that up. But it’s real. Man, is it real!
BTW, how do you get a box around the text like you do? That’s neat.
September 10th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Mark,
Glad you’re happy with your life.
The boxes may appear different from site to site. Surround your quote with the “blockquote” tag:
<blockquote>Like this.</blockquote>
Which appears:
I recommend understanding a little general HTML before getting fancy with the tags on blogs, though.
September 10th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
January 28th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Hey… my story as well as my sisters is on here …. (Cherie Marquez is my sister.) I believe in god in my own way but it is very hard for me to listen to anyone talk about the slightest thing religious! Once they open their mouths and say “God sais…” or ‘Jesus sais..” or “The bible sais..” I just want to puke! I see Red and want to punch them in their face LoL. Don’t worry…. I have not hit anyone…… yet. I have a question for all you CULT CHRISTIANS; ” You may claim christianity and call yourself a christian all you want BUT are you christ like?????????” I think religion is something that is personal and you don’t need a congregation to support your belief in or worship of god. AND YOUR NOT GOING TO HELL FOR NOT ATTENDING CHURCH! So everyone that thinks that needs to sit down in front of a mirror and stare at themselves until they snap out of their trance! LOL
April 19th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
I am sorry so many people had such experiences in the old WCG. My father tried to prove Herbert Armstrong wrong, and couldn’t do it. After 6 or 7 years of intensive study, he decided to join. After he wrote the letter asking for a ministerial visit, he was killed in an accident. We started when I was 9 with out him.
I have never been called on for falling asleep during services, not paying attention, or passing notes. One time when a whole row of teens were being incredibly loud, the minister stopped the sermon and said if it did not stop, he would send parents back there. We go to a very lax Presbyterian church now, and our minister there would not have waited so long, nor would he have waited to send the parents back. Most people brought toys blankets and such for small children.
I was raised to always call all adults Mr. and Mrs. and still do. We all did a few decades back. Deacons and deaconesses have different personalities, some nice some not so nice. Some were friendly and others not; some humble and some not. That’s human nature and it’s everywhere.
I never heard not to go to a Dr., just the opposite. Many members felt differently and misunderstood a lot about healing, so refused medical help.
Tithing was just a given. Some people were poor some weren’t I have been poor and not, tithing had little to do with it. Although I think its odd the say in the same comment that the people were too poor to feed themselves, but they left the church upwards of $10,000 to $100,000.
I never heard any minister embarrass any family by taking up donations while mentioning their names. People in need of second tithe assistance went to Pasadena. Same with camp. Local minister had little to do with it.
I have gone to three different WCG churches and I will say this: the local minister had a lot of power. Many of them were not preaching church doctrine. Mr. Armstrong, unhappily left the day to day operations to Mr. Meridith, who trained many ministers to be overbearing dictators. I have had a total of 10 different ministers over the various churches I attended in the WCG. Only 1 was remotely like any of the ones discussed above, and he was disfellowshipped.
In short the church had problems. How ever, other that the Mormons, I have never seen any other church demand so much study and bible reading as the old WCG. So don’t say brainwashed. No one held a gun to anyone’s head to be there.