Nothing has happened yet! We're Still In Seal Six!

[PurpleHymnal]

I think I, and at least one other person, are probably the ONLY ex-WCG members who actually look at "prophecy" as a fait accompli --- I take a non-theologically preterist view of the book of Revelation, myself: I believe the events of Revelation are an allegorical hagiography for the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

That's not a popular view amongst ex-members, but I wish it was more popular than it is.

[Zahyit]

"All I am saying is that it might be beneficial to get in touch with Zahyit and get his input and review some of his literature." (Weinlandtranscripted)

I noticed that for the past two days my blog "Lift up your voice" at http://innertech.wordpress.com has found the interest of many people coming in particular from this forum. So I decided to find out what all the noise was about.

But before I do anything I noticed several things that others have said that I said that I never said or wrote. Some are minor misunderstandings or misreadings, if there is such a thing.

One, I did not say that Jesus would "return on Pentecost." That is completely foreign to anything that I am teaching, is it not?

Two, I have no knowledge that Weinland has either purchased a copy of my book, or even looked at my blog. I do not get that kind of information from wordpress.com or from Amazon.
Besides, it would be far more significant if he came to understand these things apart from any influence from me, would it not?

Third, I checked all through my blog and comments, and my email and I could not find either a confirmation or a denial to this affect:

"'Zahyit', according to a commenter on I Survived Armstrongism, is also an ex-member of the church (even though he denied it way back in February when someone posted the parallels between the two of them on the blog)."

If someone can find this, I would like to see it. One thing I did say was that I never was a pastor of any church including WCG.

A strange thing  happened to me after I returned from a trip to Israel in 1983 where I became by default the principle speaker. I was asked by one of the pastors to come and speak at his church (not WCG) which I did. He asked me if I was ordained, to which I replied, "I never have been ordained by anyone." He called me to the front and ordained me in front of the people. This was an Assembly of God congregation. I never have been and am not now a member of the Assembly of God organization, in spite of the fact that I was ordained by them.

Now the last three posts made me wonder about some things:

Is it a good or bad thing to be an exWCG member? How would you know?
And what does it mean to be a "member?" If someone becomes an "ex-member" what does that mean? Is that like being an "ex-wife" or "ex-husband"? How is it good or bad to be an "ex-whatever?" Does that mean that both Thomas Jefferson and John Adams were bad or good people for plotting to become "ex-British?"

What does it mean to "fully believe?" If you don't believe everything what say you "believe" does that make you a "partially full believer" or maybe a "partially empty believer?"

Is there something wrong with "prophecy" that no one should understand it?
Or if someone does understand prophecy, is there something wrong with that person?
If prophecy is not believed, does that mean that it is not the truth?
How would you know?
Does prophecy require your belief or knowledge for it to be fulfilled?

If you do or don't understand prophecy, does that mean there is something wrong with you?

How does a person "live by faith alone?" Does that mean that a person does not have any answers at all, or only a few answers? Where do you draw the line between having all the answers or only "enough" answers? When do reach a point where you have "enough" answers so that you qualify to be one "who lives by faith alone" or one who "fully believes?"

What does it mean to "need signs" of "prophetic events?"  How would you know which signs are good signs and which are bad?

When does a sign become a "prophetic event?" When does a prophetic event become a "sign?"

Do only people who believe Scripture prophecy have "issues?" Does that mean that those who do not believe prophecy "do not have issues?"

What is the "reality?" How does one know when they either have or do not have the "reality?"

There are many things we believe for which we have little or no basis for that belief, aren't there?

[katie]

Zayhit, I've only given this award twice before and I've been on this board since it was a small blog months and months ago.  But consider yourself unique enough to recieved the W..... T.......F??!??!??!?? award of the day -- possibly even the whole freakin month.  Congratulations!

[Sunny]

Ha ha!
 

Zayhit you do ask a lot of questions. 

[Sunny]

Hey PH,
I think  you could be right on your belief of fait accompli.  I guess it really doesn't matter to me one way or another...

And Zayhit, I don't know whether that is good or bad, right or wrong, cool or uncool, lucky or unlucky.....
 

[Jonathan]

""Zahyit", according to a commenter on I Survived Armstrongism, is also an ex-member of the church (even though he denied it way back in February when someone posted the parallels between the two of them on the blog)."

I don't know about the "I Survived Armstrongism," but in the original Weinland blog Doug Said on March 17th, 2008 at 6:35 pm:

"Actually, it is kind of interesting because Zahyit has a past associated with WCG. He knew Armstrong personally."-Ron Weinland: Discussion Part 6

[Weinlandtranscripted]

I need to make some clarifications about what I wrote above.  Zahyit is correct that he does not claim that Christ will return on Pentecost, but he does prophesize that Christ does return 75 days prior to Pentecost, which is day 1260 of the 1335 day prophecy of Daniel. 
 
Zahyit like Weinland and many of the scattered churches believe that in order to understanding prophecy one must understand the meaning behind each of the Feast and High Days in relationship to God’s calendar.  Weinland and those who followed Armstrong believed in the Babylonian Calendar and it was through this calendar that they calculated the days for the Feast and High Days.  On the other hand, Zahyit believes in the Enochian Calendar as the one true calendar that the prophets of old used in such texts as the book of Enoch and the book of Jubilees.  It is through this restored calendar that Zahyit believes that the veil that hides prophecy can be lifted and one can begin to understand such prophetic events contained in Daniel, Revelation, and the book of Enoch.
 
Zahyit believes that without knowledge of the restored calendar which was given to Enoch, it would be very difficult to gain understanding of the sequence of events that will transpire at the end of this age.

In Zahyit book, he describes that there are “critical events” that occur at “appointed times” and these are not by accident.  These events are as follows:

1.The two witnesses begin prophesying.  The start of their prophecy is the 1st day of the 1st month of the revealed Enochian Calendar.   This is the Spring Equinox.

It is important to note at this point, that Zahyit’s revealed calendar begins on the spring equinox. 
 
2. The 2 witnesses are killed on the Feast of Trumpets, 1260 days or 3 and one-half years later.   
The Feast of Trumpets is on the Fall Equinox which is the 7th month 1 day. 

According to the Zahyit’s revealed calendar, and how this calendar is structured (numbered), the Feast and High Days are on the same day of the week each year.  So the Feast of Trumpets is always on the same day of the week, year after year, and falls on the Fall Equinox.  This also holds true for the other High Days as well.  One will have to explore Zahyit’s teachings in more depth in order to analyze and grasp the order of this revealed calendar and how it functions in relation to the Feast and High Days. 

3.Zahyit describes this third critical event as “The Day of the Living One Comes,” and I believe he is referring to Christ.  This event occurs on the 1st day of the 1st month.  This is on the Spring Equinox, and is the first day of the “new age.”  The resurrection of the elect will also occur on this very day.

It is important to note, that event number 3 occurs 1260 days, or 3 and one half years after the 2 witnesses are killed in the streets of Jerusalem. 
 
Zahyit believes in a 7 year tribulation period. 

After the 2 witnesses are killed, there remains 1260 days of Great Tribulation.  At the end of these 1260 days is the Spring Equinox of the Zahyit’s revealed calendar and the day Christ is to return.
Now, following Christ return, there remains 75 days or 2 and one-half months.  According to Zahyit’s revealed calendar, day 75 falls on Pentecost and this is the great day that the resurrected elect ascend and have an opportunity to meet God.  This 75th day is the 1335 day of the Daniel 12 prophecy.  Consequently, according to Zahyit, Pentecost has prophetic meaning – it is the day that God meets those that were resurrected 75 days earlier, on the same day Christ returned.

Zahyit’s Timeline of End-Time Events:

Spring Equinox – 1st day of the 1st month of the revealed calendar –The 2 end-time witnesses begin their work.

Fall Equinox – 7th month 1st day – Feast of Trumpets; 1260 days later, the 2 end-time witnesses die

The Daniel 12 Prophecy - 1335 days remain – Great Tribulation

Day 1290: According to Zahyit, it represents the day that sacrifices end.  He describes it as the day the “abomination is set up in the Set-apart city. 

1260 days later Christ returns; Spring Equinox – 1st day of the 1st month of the new age - the elect are resurrected and given eternal life

75 days later – God's elect will ascend and meet him for the first time

I do have a question, if God does grant eternal life to his chosen people on Pentecost (This is in error according to Zahyit - he states the chosen people (God's elect) are resurrected to eternal life on the Spring Equinox, 75 days prior to Pentecost), why does God wait until atonement to confine Satan, considering the millennium period has already begun?  This appears to be a considerable amount of time.   

[The above paragraph should read: I do have a question, if God the Father meets his chosen people (the elect) on Pentecost, why does God wait until atonement to confine Satan, considering the millennium period has already begun?  This appears to be a considerable amount of time.] 

Weinland on the other hand, does not believe in a 7 year tribulation period, at least not right at the present. 
 
Also, as was mentioned earlier, Zahyit believes that prophetic events occur on or around the spring and fall Equinox’s.  There is also the summer and winter solstices.   The winter solstice occurs in December and Zahyit believes that certain end-time events could transpire around these lunar events.  Consequently, Weinland states that he is looking for something to occur (some notable event) in December. 

[Mike (Ekimks)]

Weinland states that he is looking for something to occur (some notable event) in December.

ILFPRW and Laura are going to make trips through "mid-December".  After that the trips stop, because the Spokesman Witness and the Silent Witness reStart their Jobs on December 14.  That's my expectation, which differs by 75 days from the timeline you describe.

[Weinlandtranscripted]

Everything is still speculative at this point.  Weinland is getting wiser regarding being a prophet.  He is probably learning when to say something and when to keep his mouth closed.  He has not given us a timeline.  He might not! 

[Zahyit]

Sunny,
You won't take anything I said as a personal attack, will you? The point I was trying to make is that all those questions point out things can mean something different to each of us. The "overcoming" comes when we have wisdom, understanding and knowledge of the truth with the evidence to back it up, does it not? All who read those questions will be made aware of what is in their minds, right or wrong, good or bad, or puzzlement, won't they? Those are the kind of questions I have to fire at myself whenever I research any topic. We cannot believe that any and every thought that comes into our mind is the truth, can we? This becomes the heart and core of the need for the "Set-apart" Spirit and Spiritual discernment, doesn't it?

Jonathan,
That statement about knowing HWA personally is true. But I cannot find a confirmation or a denial regarding the other. Was someone "placing words in my mouth" to satisfy their own mental conflicts? I'll keep looking.

Weinlandtranscripted:
Thank you for this post.

Actually, I believe I wrote that the resurrection happens when the one we call "Jesus" returns at the beginning of the "8th week" or age of Enoch and that would be the first day of the first month of the first year of that age. Then on the Feast of Firstfruits, the Wave Loaves are offered, a metaphor of the righteous, who go to their Father and to their Elohim (family). This is blessing of the 1335 days. Jesus was resurrected on the sixth day, just before the Sabbath before the disciples could return to finish the dressing of the body. They believed that he had been in the tomb for almost 4 and half days! Then on the first day of the week He and Mary Magdalene met in the garden and He told her that He had not yet "ascended to the Father." He as the firstborn from the dead was symbolized by the Wave Sheaf. So nowhere would I have written that the resurrection happens on Pentecost.

Can you imagine what the first Passover will be like in the next age?

"And I shall pour on the House of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of favor and prayer. and they will look on Me whom they pierced and will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son! And they shall be in bitterness over Him as bitterness over a firstborn" From Zechariah. 12 In the rest of that chapter and into the 13th shows a "Passover" like no other. At that time he will remove their sin and uncleanness.

Instead of the "great day of resurrection" it is the great day of "revealing" which is also written about in the Book of Enoch. From that time on the people of the world will look upon the righteous and desire to, at all cost, join with Them.

Actually, there is another somewhat confusing point. Daniel was given instruction concerning the 2300 evenings and mornings which is the same as 2,300 days, is it not? The end of the tribulations (3.5 years) and the 2,300 days are the same day -- the last day of the last year of the 7th age. The "sacrifices cease" 1290 days after the "start" of the 2,300 days. The apparent reason for using 2300 days as opposed to using Enoch days (the counted days) is that the 2300 days includes the intercalary (uncounted) days at the end of each quarter in its counting, whereas the 1290, 1260, 1335 days do not count the "uncounted days" (the 31st day of months 3,6, 9 and 12.)

I am not sure what a "7 year millennium" is? I know that some believe in the 6,000 years, but that is different from the 7 weeks or ages, which are periods marked by events and not by years. By the way, the counting of seven complete weeks between the Feast of Unleavened bread and the Feasts of Weeks/Firstfruits is another metaphor of Enoch's seven ages. The Feast of Firstfruits happens after the seven weeks are complete, in other words, during the "start of the 8th week."

If I did not make this plain in my book or on the blog, please let me know and I will make the necessary changes.

[Sunny]

Zahyit like Weinland and many of the scattered churches believe that in order to understanding prophecy one must understand the meaning behind each of the Feast and High Days in relationship to God’s calendar. 

Not speaking for Zahyit...but YES, in WCG (HWA teachings) you MUST believe the US & Brittain in Prophecy AND believe the "meanings" of the Holy Days.  The Holy Days depict "God's Plan" according to HWA.  It is all "revealed" to him, it isn't something you can prove (the meanings of the days) scripturally...

Obviously the people following Weinland ALSO must believe his meanings of the thunders...they are also NOT provable by scripture as they are also "revealed" to the "great one"...
 

[Sunny]

okay...I don't know how I got MY comments in blue above....
duh!

 

[Sunny]

Sunny,
You won't take anything I said as a personal attack, will you? The point I was trying to make is that all those questions point out things can mean something different to each of us. The "overcoming" comes when we have wisdom, understanding and knowledge of the truth with the evidence to back it up, does it not? All who read those questions will be made aware of what is in their minds, right or wrong, good or bad, or puzzlement, won't they? Those are the kind of questions I have to fire at myself whenever I research any topic. We cannot believe that any and every thought that comes into our mind is the truth, can we? This becomes the heart and core of the need for the "Set-apart" Spirit and Spiritual discernment, doesn't it?

Hey Z,
Thanks for not attacking.  I'm like Michael, I don't like mean people.   
I ask myself LOTS of questions I suppose, but I don't mind NOT having answers.  I don't have to "overcome" Christ already took care of that.  I just "live"...help people, be happy...  What sets me apart from the world is the indwelling of God's Spirit.  Some call it blind faith.  I just call it faith.
 

[Zahyit]

Weinlandtranscripted
"I do have a question, if God does grant eternal life to his chosen people on Pentecost, why does God wait until atonement to confine Satan, considering the millennium period has already begun?  This appears to be a considerable amount of time."

This is another reason why the title of my next book is "Enoch: The Book Behind the Bible" because if we knew what was revealed to Enoch and written for us we would know what the story is, wouldn't we?

The ones who are already incarcerated are Azazel and his companions. These are the Messengers who brought corrupting knowledge to the people and subsequently led to the great flood. The word translated "scapegoat" in Leviticus is really the Hebrew word "Azazel" who as noted is the ringleader of these. He was taken and placed in confinement and every year we are reminded of an event that goes on in perpetuity, as to all the feast days and Sabbaths. Yom KPR ( the day of "putting a covering over") separates the mistakes of the people from those who are responsible for the people's problems. The one goat for Eyahuwah (YHWH) pays for the mistakes we make as a result, The other goat has the "lid" put on his head, symbolized by the cupped hands of Aaron. The end result: "Don't worry about the mistakes, it wasn't your fault!!!" This will be taught to the world during the first year of the eighth age at the appointed time.

[Weinlandtranscripted]

Zahyit,

I stand corrected. The righteous and the elect are resurrected on the Spring Equinox, the 1st day of the 1st month.  Out of all the timelines in your book where you reference the return of Christ or day 1260, it is only on page 133 that you discuss this resurrection.  I simply missed this point.  The resurrected elect remain with Christ on earth for another 75 days before ascending to God which is on Pentecost.