Atheist Life vs. Religious Life

[PurpleHymnal]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaOVPaYf780" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaOVPaYf780</a>

[Mantayo]

"Religion is uniquely armored against anything that might stop it from spinning into extreme absurdity, extreme denial of reality and extreme, grotesque immorality. "

http://www.alternet.org/belief/143912/the_top_one_reason_religion_is_harmful_/?page=1

One person's position with respect to "Atheist Life vs Religious Life"

[tony]

Thank god for alter net!

[PurpleHymnal]

Meh, I've been arguing against the wishy-washy "religion has some positives" view my atheist Quaker mailing list has been trying to pound into my head lately. (Needless to say, I quite disagree.) Mostly their problem is, none of them have been in religions that were in any way closed, high-demand, or abusive, so they're hanging on with their back teeth, to say "Well, there's some good in religion, I know because I've seen it/lived it/experienced it!" Without looking clearly at the big picture that, religion is evil.

Or maybe I'm missing the bigger picture, who knows? I've been attending a (virtual) Quaker Meeting for the last year or so, so technically I guess that means there is "religion" in my life...even though I recoil from the thought of describing MfW as "religious" or Quakerism itself as "religion".

[Ironwolf]

There is value in human communities— in humans caring for each other. To the extent that religion provides this, then I suppose it can be said to have value. But that value is in the human connectedness, and not in the metaphysics.

[PurpleHymnal]

Right, which is my argument that's getting consistently shot down. "Oh, but I grew up in X and it was great!" yeah, well, my point is, you can replicate all the good stuff (community-wise) without the religion. But they just don't seem to get that, and it goes right over their heads, or they just don't want to respond to it as a valid argument (that the positives of community can be realized in a secular setting, not just a religious one).

But they're arguing from more of an "interfaith" place than I'm comfortable with right now, which is my own failing, not theirs. After all, I can read comparative religion information, texts, and studies, till the cows come home, but when it comes to dealing with actual religious believers? I'm still not so much comfortable with that. Especially having to walk that thin line between expressing my own views, and trampling on the (religious) feelings of others. I've had this problem with Christians, with Gnostics, with Pagans, and with Quakers.

The problem is, I don't want to isolate myself to a little tiny corner of the fundie atheist universe.....

[tony]

I agree with PH and have experienced the community wise good stuff in secular groups.   I'm finding the secular groups I'm now involved with to be a far more varied and rich group of people.  Sure there are still pockets of simple mindedness but that is rare compared to what I experienced in christianity.

[Ironwolf]

The problem is, I don't want to isolate myself to a little tiny corner of the fundie atheist universe.....

You might want to consider attending a Unitarian Universalist congregation. They happily accept everyone, including atheists. I went to a few services years ago and my conclusion was, "If I ever wanted a church community around me again, this would be it."

[tony]

I've attended the nearest UU church and found them to be a warm welcoming group.  I haven't gone back mainly because the group was too small and it is too far for me to travel.  I have friends who go to UU in their locale and they have very good things to say about their UU experiences.

[PurpleHymnal]

Meh....not much for the "ritual without religion" part. Not that there are any UUs in my neck of woods, anyway. Around here it's mostly either/or: EITHER Protestant, OR Catholic. So, yeah.

[PurpleHymnal]

Which is not to say the UUs aren't right for everyone; although I did read warnings about them in the UK, on a mailing list I'm a member of; apparently they're big on the whole fund-raising/evangelizing for dollars bit, and organizationally as well, if what I read was any indication.

[Ironwolf]

Well, I don't even remember the plate being passed in the couple of UU services I attended. I've certainly never gotten UU mailings or door bangers asking for money.

[PurpleHymnal]

Like I say, it could be an overseas thing; Tony, did they pass the plate when you attended?

Then there's my local Anglican ministurd....who teaches TITHING. Yeah. So much for the Anglicans being mostly harmless..... 

[tony]

They passed the plate but it was quite low key.  No altar call, no claims our worth as humans depended on what we gave, nothing like that.

I don't have a problem with them asking for money... within limits.  The various community groups I am a member of require paid membership.  Some are quite cheap, only $15 a year or so, others are far more, one is nearly $200 a year.  One of the professional groups I'm a member of costs me $320 a year.  To fund any kind of group costs money and it is reasonable for either a plate to be passed or a membership fee to be charged.

What is not reasonable is claiming, as the Christians do, that one's salvation depends on whether one tithes or gives generous offerings.

Your mileage may vary but I encourage you to not discount going to UU based on what you've heard from others.  Try it for yourself, your mileage may well vary from mine.

[PurpleHymnal]

Yeah, I've had the UUs recommended to me before, as well. Unfortunately, none in my area. It's pretty much Christianity all through, in my area of the world...and my particular town only has ONE church! (An Anglican one, with a very skeevy ministurd in charge of it, at that.)