Aw crap, you took a forum post of mine, totally pointed out my spelling, and ripped apart what I said. I seriously hate that, but okay, I'll debate.
First, belief in a divine creator you automatically know matter can be created and destroyed. No matter what the 'Law of Metaphysics' states, matter did not just appear. How for one second you can believe matter was never created and it has been in the fabric of space is like believing the Stargate series. It is such common sense, I find it absolutely absurd someone trying to argue that particles were just 'here' and atoms were just 'here'. Everyone from a logical standpoint throughout human history has a start and end, whether it is a clock, a car that has to be made by man to exist, or perhaps the life of a child. Now in a physical sense your right, matter only changes and is never destroyed. By human science that is true, however common sense dictates that energy from the start of time itself did not just 'appear' it has to begin somewhere, as did matter. Maybe thetans or perhaps we should point to midi-cloreans, but for God's sake do not argue that matter just existed! Impossible!!!!!! Logical conclusion is that everything has a starting point!
Okay, now onto Iran. Fine, let us debate that. Okay, so in an age of nuclear power, and the fact that the other major powers in the region has been obliterated doesn't make any difference? The U.S. took out the other major powers, and that doesn't play a part? I could argue that thousands of years ago I could have started a heretical cult and taken over Iran, would that be possible in this day and age? Sure there have been power struggles throughout history, but what makes it different now is we are in a NUCLEAR age. Let me say that again, NUCLEAR age. So your references to history make no difference, as there was no threat of mass destruction, and the technology did not exist that exists today. Prove me he is not trying to gain nuclear capability and I will concede here.
The last about the decline of religion I stand firmly by. I could dig percentages but I don't feel I should have to. Compair the percentage now to the percentage attending religious activities 100 years ago there is a huge difference. Now you could argue that there is an increase, however a 100 years ago there were only about 1.5 billion people on the planet, now there are over 6 billion. I know this to be true, and I don't feel like getting into great detail. The fact remains, there may be MORE people in churches, simply because we spawn like flies. Now does that mean a higher percent goes? Negative.....
The Jews failed promises? Well, your right. I wasn't saying that everything has been fulfilled. I don't need to either, there is plenty of time for the rest. As for your challenge, I accept and will read thoroughly. =)
As part of my "final days" (ah...AHHH....) on Robert's blog (and there was much rejoicing; details coming later today.. ; ), I would like to address this "prophecy ignorance" that has run rampant ever since Hellenization and Revelation's placement in the cannon.
99% of this will fall on deaf ears. Perhaps the other 1% of you can start asking some questions. For references, see my thread with Pastor Porter. If you want to keep your faith in Christ, read full or partial Preterists. If you're asking tons of questions about it, well ...
1. The earth is dieing.
As is the ability to spell. : )
Matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Please see "First Law of Thermodynamics." So, in the physics sense of the term, the earth is not "dying." If you mean the earth is in a state of environmental crisis, I completely agree—and it's preventable. The problem is most EOTW Christians do NOT want to prevent it. They see this as consequential. We see this as our responsibility to our future generations. You decide which is the more noble stance.
Now, in the Plathian sense, everything is "dying", so your point is moot. The sun has been "dying" since it was formed.
2. The prince of persia is rising to power.
Do me a favor. Read a history book.
The Persian (Iranian) Empire has been up and down from the 800 BC on to today. At many times in history, this empire was FAR more powerful in relation to the rest of the world than Iran is today, despite the boasting of yet another religious idiot (Ahmadinejad) yesterday. Given the fact that Iran doesn't even have nuclear capabilities per US and UN inspections, his boasts are nothing short of absurd.
This tidbit from his 2006 UN address points to the problem:
"Today, agnostic thinking is on the decline and presently humanity is equally enamored with religion knowledge and spirituality. This is an auspicious beginning. Divine prophets teach us about proper regard for the exalted state of human beings on earth."
He then goes on to quote the Koran. Like all primitive countries culturally speaking, Iran has always been a theocracy. Once you call upon your Sky Buddy for assistance, and HIS Sky Buddy and prophets differ from YOUR Sky Buddy and prophets, you do have potentially large problems.
The idealistic solution would be to rid "Sky Buddy" from our political mindset, but since that will not happen for a long, long time, we now have to ensure the more whacko of the Sky Buddy Club does not achieve nuclear power.
My point is simply this: You cannot point to this "king of Persia" with a biblical mindset and make a case. Compared to previous kings in previous day, he's a joke. The Sassanid Empire ramsacked much of Rome and persecuted the Orthodox church in extreme fashion. If you will look up "failed prophets", you'll see many cries of "end of the world", as this fit the supposed Revelation prophecy to a "T". But, alas...nothing. In fact, like ALL Persian empirical rise and fall, the fall was predicated on their religious nonsense.
Hopefully that will be their undoing in our day and age.
3. The jews have returned to their homeland as predicted.
Nonsense.
You are, like all other Biblical literalists, not being literal when it suits you. Read the description of this restored nation of Israel, as promised by God:
You shall eat your bread to the full, and live securely in your land. And I will grant peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and no one shall make you afraid; I will remove dangerous animals from the land, and no sword shall go through your land." There are five separate promises made in this text that clearly show that this could not have been a prophecy about modern Israel, unless you'd like to concede that the prophecy obviously failed. It's bollocks to the Nth degree. You cannot take one section of scripture and obliterate the rest.
Start by reading Till's superb essay on the subject of failed Jewish promises, if you dare:
http://www.theskepticalreview.com/tsrmag/1land91.html4. Over the last 50 years, when Sunday mass was common, religion has turned into a joke with all the influences of the world, and churchs must scour for members. Even in Europe the Vatican is now vacant, and the world is turning away from religion.
Conjecture by bias. Also, you (like almost everyone else on this forum) are not viewing these events through the eyes of history. There have been dozens of instances of religious decline throughout the ages. And, in fact, the largest SURGE of religious interest in the United States was in the last 50 years. Read Finke's census! Here...I'll quote part of it for you, along with Gallup's take on the issue:
"Clearly the US is a "churched" nation; in fact, the last 50 years have been the most churched half-century in the nation's history, judging from census and other data reported by Roger Finke and Rodney Stark in "The Churching of America" Levels of attested religious belief, surveys reveal, are extraordinarily high. Virtually all Americans say they believe in God or a universal spirit. Most believe in a personal God who watches over and judges people. Most believe God performs miracles today, and many say they have felt the presence of God at various points in their lives, and that God has a plan for their lives. A substantial majority believe that they will be called before God at Judgment Day to answer for their sins. Americans overwhelmingly attest to a belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ, although what is meant by "divinity" varies. Most believe in an indwelling living Christ, and in the Second Coming. We say we believe in Heaven, and to a lesser extent, Hell. Half of Americans believe in the Devil. Also, the vast majority of Americans believe the Bible is either the literal or inspired Word of God. We believe the Ten Commandments to be valid rules for living."While the argument can be made for other nations becoming less "religious" over the past century, it cannot be made for the US, despite what you may feel or sense is the case. The emergence of agnostic or atheistic individuals is primarily the result of a less oppressed cultural environment, not some massive wave of "evil" sweeping the world.
That, and the fact we agnostics/atheists tend to study both sides of the story, not just one.
Try it.
