Okay.. being serious now.... about end time predictions & Ron.

[Ironwolf]

I couldn't have said it better, PH. We have all been where you are, "w", and despite what the true believers say, we are doing our investigations, our debunking, and yes, even our mocking because we care about what happens to other people in the world, and we can especially relate to the plight of people who are going through what we have been through. Whether you end up as some kind of believer, an agnostic, or even an atheist like me, you'll be in a better position to lead your life in happiness on the other side of what you're going through.

[Sunny]

I haven't had time to listen to the sermon from today but I feel for you "W".  It breaks my heart to know what you are going through.  I went through this too!  I came to the point where I had to "Question" everything I had been taught since birth.  I had to question EVERY detail of my life, my family, my marriage and myself.  It is a strange place to be.  You feel  betrayed and alone.  Truth is...as hard of a place it is, if you believe in Christ (which I know you do) you simply have to work out a personal relationship with Him (not based on religion, not based on Sabbath, not based on law)...just a talking prayerful relationship, you really don't feel quite so alone.  Pretty soon, after you tell yourself not to worry or doubt, you really won't.  the worry and doubt will become less and less. 
I know some on this forum don't believe in Christianity, but I know you do since you are seeking God.  I do too.  My approach is from that direction.  Once your salvation is secure in Christ....the law, even breaking it, can't take salvation away. Problem with RW and the other splinter groups from WCG (and other Christian churches) is they "attach" all this other stuff to salvation.  Anything attached to eternal life cannot be proven by scripture.

I don't mean to preach, I'm just trying to say, from a Christian perspective, once Salvation is attained....you have room to breath and figure out all the other stuff...  You don't need a "corporate church" and you don't need a "boss behind the pulpit" telling you what to do.  You have the Holy Spirit, who/which is ALL you need.

Peace and Love during this difficult time.
 

[Mr. Arkadin]

I am standing here applauding your courage “w.” RW’s shell game must be becoming more and more apparent for those who follow him.

RW is nothing more than a schoolyard bully who is threatening people with divine obliteration for their lunch money. Only RW’s followers are bullied into giving tithes that are forfeiting things like college for their children, retirement funds, and paying monthly bills.   

We are all behind you “w,” I only hope that people in cog-pkg are right behind you when you finally leave that corrupt organization.

[Sunny]

I guess what I was trying to say last night (it was very late!) ...

RW and LOTS of other churches put a "sense of urgency" on people, which makes their heads spin and worry about their salvation or standing with God.  There is NO sense of urgency to do anything when a person is saved.  Once a person is saved...they are secure, then it is just a matter of what to do next.  Then the Holy Spirit convicts us on what to do, we can do it, but those things come as we are growing and able to "deal" with them.  No sense of urgency involved.

[katie]

w, i have just had my eyes opened for the first time, too.  i am coming at this from a different angle, but i can cetainly relate to your situation.  my faith began to unravel several weeks back and the people here you are speaking with witnessed it happen with me.  i can tell you that they are a caring group of people and thier intentions are honorable.  most all of these guys and gals have been deeply hurt by the church and are offering thier own insight to help others who aren't as far along in thier journey.  sending you my very best thoughts and wishes.  praying you find peace...

[gracealso]

w, I just want to pass along my thoughts of support & encouragement to you.

March 22nd was the turning point for me - After the non-events surrounding that time period - then the sermon on the 22nd hit me between the eyes, just as yesterdays hit you between the eyes.

It does get better.

[Poor Richard]

w,

  Just read your post.  Now I see why everyone here are showing such support for you, that was some opening up!  Hey... just let that flow.  Everyone reacts a little differently to this sort of thing, but it's always harder if you try to go against the flow of your natural healing process.  There's grief and sorrow and stress and anger and loneliness and shame and more stress and all that stuff - don't fight it, just keep moving forward.  Talk it out with us if you need to.

"Courage is the power to overcome danger, misfortune, fear, injustice, while continuing to affirm inwardly that life with all its sorrows is good; that everything is meaningful even if in a sense beyond our understanding; and that there is always a tomorrow." -Dorothy Thompson

  And good lookin' out, everyone.  Way to be there for W.  I'm impressed.

[w]

I appreciate and thank you all for the comforting replies.  Now that I have had a couple days to reflect I believe what I wrote was correct.  Now, I hope other baptized members will explore other church options outside of Ron Weinland.  New or prospective members should read your Bible & compare it to the literature and the two books written by Ron before even considering joining this church.  Listen to these people on this forum and understand they want you to realize he is wrong on prophecy among other spiritual issues.  If you are already beginning to tithe, please consider holding it back because this is not right place to be giving your 10%.  Please do not take my word for it, just keep an open mind and compare what he says sabbath to sabbath.

On another note, I have decided that people who are defrauding hundreds of people do not deserve privacy.   Individuals and families are being harmed or torn apart by this church. I have gone back and forth, but I know I am making the right choice.  If you believe contacting them directly will aide in ending this tragic saga, then be my guest.  I am placing this information on this forum not out of spite or hurting anyone, but to give people on this forum a chance to confront the two false witnesses directly.  These people are spreading the false hope of a coming kingdom in 2011 that will end in the financial, mental, and emotional ruin of dozens if not hundreds of people.  The home mailing address for the Two Witnesses of cog-pkg is:  Moderator's Note: I do respect "w"'s journey out of the church and I do want to help "w" in any way that I can. I do not want the church coming after "w" for legal reasons, which is why I have modified this message. I do not mean any disrespect to "w" and I hope they understand. I'm only looking out for "w". This will be my last post on here for a while. 

[PurpleHymnal]

Again, I hope you are not offended that I modified your message "w". I am just thinking of you, as well as Ironwolf, who has his real name attached to this forum.

I know you said this would be your last post for a while, and I understand. Please come back and post as you need to "w". My email Inbox is always open. weinlandwatch@gmail.com

I wish you the very best of luck and I will keep you in my thoughts.

[PurpleHymnal]

And if anyone is looking for a specific discussion board about the CoG-PKG, Shadows of WCG has set up a discussion board here:

The Two Witnesses: Discussion on the Church of God PKG

[pastor porter]

w. there are people out in the world who hold the same religious beliefs that you do. they do not follow a man. Just for your information if you study tithing, it never says to give your tithe to anyone. it says to eat your tithe before the Lord. I am posting this scripture for clarification purposes only.

Deut 14:22 ¶  Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23  And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always. 24  And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: 25  Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: 26  And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

I get so tired of people giving their money to "churches, or people " and then complaining how they are robbed. Yes these people are robbing the sheep, they are wolves in sheeps clothing.  But the fault lies in the people not studying and believing what a man says.

W, prove all things and get away from any church that says to separate your from family, friends, and that says that they are the only church that God is working with.  There are churches that do teach truth as you know it but that do not follow a man, or demand that you walk a particular party line
all the best in your journey,
May God bless,

[katie]

Ok, now, Pastor Porter, your post here is irritating to me.  You say that you get tired of people who basically don't have your understanding of the biblical instructions to tithe.  Well, what makes your own definition any better than theirs?  People have been studying scripture for 2000 years (deuteronomy much longer) and there are hundreds of religions to prove just how impossible "God's Word" is to understand.  You say you have the correct understanding, well, get in line, buddy.  So did Martin Luther, John Calvin, Jon Edwards, and all the other Joe Shmoe Theologians over the years. You can't all be right.  Were they all possessed by Satan so that they misunderstood God's word?  Do you see how utterly foolish this sounds?

Add to that the indoctrination of our youth and how dare you say you "get so tired" of people doing this or that...  Get TIRED of the entire deal, man.  Wake up!  There is no magic bible code and if there were, how cruel would that be of God to hide Himself from some and share Himself with others?  (Don't claim the Holy Spirit either!  There are some pretty Godly men on that list.)  He didn't.  This is all man made.  So please direct your anger in the right direction.  The Deut section is not ALL the bible has to say on giving to God and you know it. 

[pluggedin1]

"Moderator's Note: I do respect "w"'s journey out of the church and I do want to help "w" in any way that I can. I do not want the church coming after "w" for legal reasons, which is why I have modified this message. I do not mean any disrespect to "w" and I hope they understand"


The Weinland's home address is public record for anyone who does a little bit of "home" work.

[PurpleHymnal]

Of course it is. But there are several factors to consider here, all of which indicate that the potential for harm (for all concerned) far outweighs any "benefits" that might be had (which wouldn't really be benefits) from the information.

Besides which, I doubt the Weinlands are even home most of the time anyway. Likely housekeepers and staff answer the mail and keep the place up, if they don't have church members doing it for free.

As for Fred Porter's remark, I always like to tell people who take that scripture seriously, that it actually means they should take 10% of whatever they grow each year. In other words, you should be "tithing" 10% of your houseplants, your kitchen garden or (if you have one) any produce you grow. Not money. Because the bible doesn't say money, it says "SEED". Seed is not money, and the literalists cannot eat their cake and have it too. Either seed is literally seed, and so is every other literal aspect of the bible, or "seed" is really "money" and therefore every other aspect of the bible can be "re-interpreted" as they see fit.

[pluggedin1]

BTW, where is the 4/26 sermon?